Discussion
Motor racing is a rich persons sport.
The majority of those who have made it up the ranks in recent years seem to have had the necessary resources behind them, the best teams, management and test programme, to help get them there.
Male or female, without such support, it must be a pretty daunting task.
The majority of those who have made it up the ranks in recent years seem to have had the necessary resources behind them, the best teams, management and test programme, to help get them there.
Male or female, without such support, it must be a pretty daunting task.
Let’s face it, if she was a great driver - particularly being female - she would have a very easy ride up the motorsport ladder.
But her 2020 season in Formula Regional really showed her up as being merely a ‘good’ driver, not great.
She was in the four car Prema Team…by far the most dominant team. She had the best car, best team and best funding. Her three teammates were all rookies. Her three teammates finished 1st, 2nd and 3rd in the championship - winning multiple races, pole positions and fastest laps on the way to a dominating season.
Chadwick finished 9th on just 80 points. Her teammates had an average of 348 points each. She was hopelessly outclassed in every aspect.
No wonder she’s back in W Series. It’s a pay day for her and she can be a big fish in a very small pond.
But her 2020 season in Formula Regional really showed her up as being merely a ‘good’ driver, not great.
She was in the four car Prema Team…by far the most dominant team. She had the best car, best team and best funding. Her three teammates were all rookies. Her three teammates finished 1st, 2nd and 3rd in the championship - winning multiple races, pole positions and fastest laps on the way to a dominating season.
Chadwick finished 9th on just 80 points. Her teammates had an average of 348 points each. She was hopelessly outclassed in every aspect.
No wonder she’s back in W Series. It’s a pay day for her and she can be a big fish in a very small pond.
Edited by knowitall on Tuesday 22 February 20:25
Edited by knowitall on Tuesday 22 February 20:26
If the series can't fund a F2 seat for the champion then what is the point.
Teams aren't going to take millions less from a driver just because she's female, especially if she can only be compared against good but mostly unproven competition. Money talks until you get to the very top of F1, yes some are funded by teams but they are rare and exceptional.
Teams aren't going to take millions less from a driver just because she's female, especially if she can only be compared against good but mostly unproven competition. Money talks until you get to the very top of F1, yes some are funded by teams but they are rare and exceptional.
I would imagine there is no prize drive in this series for exactly the reasons posted in the last couple of pages, the women that win it are not really good enough to take on GP2 or top line F3 or GP3, it is that simple.
Most very good feeder series at the lower level have a prize drive, this is the carrot to get prospective talent to go there and take their big money there, it has been going on for years, it used to just be talent alone then it became are you on the Camel Marlboro ladder, now it is about the Red Bull, ferrari academy.
I am sure the series ahs TRID to get prize drives surely? Maybe there are no takers.
Most very good feeder series at the lower level have a prize drive, this is the carrot to get prospective talent to go there and take their big money there, it has been going on for years, it used to just be talent alone then it became are you on the Camel Marlboro ladder, now it is about the Red Bull, ferrari academy.
I am sure the series ahs TRID to get prize drives surely? Maybe there are no takers.
JonChalk said:
Pretty sure I saw a RaceFans article a while back suggesting it's probably around $1M a year for an F3 seat, $2M for an F2 seat.
Significantly more than that for a season of FIA F3, and then more again for Prema. Chadwick would have to raise another chunk of cash and won't want to burn her prize fund running around at the back of a F3 grid. knowitall said:
Let’s face it, if she was a great driver - particularly being female - she would have a very easy ride up the motorsport ladder.
But her 2020 season in Formula Regional really showed her up as being merely a ‘good’ driver, not great.
She was in the four car Prema Team…by far the most dominant team. She had the best car, best team and best funding. Her three teammates were all rookies. Her three teammates finished 1st, 2nd and 3rd in the championship - winning multiple races, pole positions and fastest laps on the way to a dominating season.
Chadwick finished 9th on just 80 points. Her teammates had an average of 348 points each. She was hopelessly outclassed in every aspect.
No wonder she’s back in W Series. It’s a pay day for her and she can be a big fish in a very small pond.
I've read somewhere recently that although she was being run by the Prema team, she provided her own car rather than using one of Prema's own. If that's true then the implication is that she was tight on budget even for that and had to settle for what was probably a second hand car which may not have had the same level of prep as her teammates.But her 2020 season in Formula Regional really showed her up as being merely a ‘good’ driver, not great.
She was in the four car Prema Team…by far the most dominant team. She had the best car, best team and best funding. Her three teammates were all rookies. Her three teammates finished 1st, 2nd and 3rd in the championship - winning multiple races, pole positions and fastest laps on the way to a dominating season.
Chadwick finished 9th on just 80 points. Her teammates had an average of 348 points each. She was hopelessly outclassed in every aspect.
No wonder she’s back in W Series. It’s a pay day for her and she can be a big fish in a very small pond.
df76 said:
JonChalk said:
Pretty sure I saw a RaceFans article a while back suggesting it's probably around $1M a year for an F3 seat, $2M for an F2 seat.
Significantly more than that for a season of FIA F3, and then more again for Prema. Chadwick would have to raise another chunk of cash and won't want to burn her prize fund running around at the back of a F3 grid. Earlier this month, the 23-year-old told Motor Sport that she wanted to move on from the championship and up the single-seater ladder to FIA Formula 3, but revealed that the two $500,000 cheques she received for winning her titles amounted to just a quarter of the money she needed to progress.
thegreenhell said:
df76 said:
JonChalk said:
Pretty sure I saw a RaceFans article a while back suggesting it's probably around $1M a year for an F3 seat, $2M for an F2 seat.
Significantly more than that for a season of FIA F3, and then more again for Prema. Chadwick would have to raise another chunk of cash and won't want to burn her prize fund running around at the back of a F3 grid. Earlier this month, the 23-year-old told Motor Sport that she wanted to move on from the championship and up the single-seater ladder to FIA Formula 3, but revealed that the two $500,000 cheques she received for winning her titles amounted to just a quarter of the money she needed to progress.
Just about every driver has to find funding for their career. She is no different, just because of her gender.
If you are dedicated to your racing career you use every penny to make it up the ladder.
And the fact that she has an extra £1m to put into the pot from her two seasons in W Series should have put her well in front of most other drivers.
Instead it's widely acknowledged by those in the know, that she used the prize money from the first year to put towards buying an apartment in London;
https://metro.co.uk/2021/01/12/my-first-home-racin...
(By the way, I'm certainly not bemoaning the fact that she used her prizemoney in that way. It's a wise investment. But a driver shouldn't use lack of funding as an excuse, if they decide to deploy their financial resources elsewhere).
If you are dedicated to your racing career you use every penny to make it up the ladder.
And the fact that she has an extra £1m to put into the pot from her two seasons in W Series should have put her well in front of most other drivers.
Instead it's widely acknowledged by those in the know, that she used the prize money from the first year to put towards buying an apartment in London;
https://metro.co.uk/2021/01/12/my-first-home-racin...
(By the way, I'm certainly not bemoaning the fact that she used her prizemoney in that way. It's a wise investment. But a driver shouldn't use lack of funding as an excuse, if they decide to deploy their financial resources elsewhere).
Edited by knowitall on Wednesday 23 February 13:40
I’m looking forward to the new season, it’ll be interesting to see which new drivers are drafted in. It’s still early days for the W Series, it’s building that brand. They clearly want to attract investors that will support, take over or invest in the teams.
I guess they have a 10 year plan to establish, develop and build the series. With the aim of making it a viable avenue for women racers with real talent. And the talent it attracts will improve over time, one would hope. That’s not to say there isn’t some proper talent there now (Chadwick, Powell, Pulling, Garcia, Marti etc).
But the talent across the field will need grow. We all know that track time and lots of it, is required to develop as a driver. This series is providing that track time which will hopefully help to develop talent further. As said, some of the talent is great already (thinking of some of the overtakes by Kimilainen and Garcia at a wet Spa).
I wish them all good luck and hope to see some great racing again this year
I guess they have a 10 year plan to establish, develop and build the series. With the aim of making it a viable avenue for women racers with real talent. And the talent it attracts will improve over time, one would hope. That’s not to say there isn’t some proper talent there now (Chadwick, Powell, Pulling, Garcia, Marti etc).
But the talent across the field will need grow. We all know that track time and lots of it, is required to develop as a driver. This series is providing that track time which will hopefully help to develop talent further. As said, some of the talent is great already (thinking of some of the overtakes by Kimilainen and Garcia at a wet Spa).
I wish them all good luck and hope to see some great racing again this year
Edited by bockaaarck on Thursday 24th February 07:55
Edited by bockaaarck on Thursday 24th February 07:57
Jamie has had a strong career (I have raced against her at Oulton Park.....in the very early days when she was just doing it for signatures). It does seem that her Formula Renault EC outing was the low point, following on from middling performances in regional F3.
I wish her all the best and all the success, but F3 onwards is such a difficult ladder to climb, even if you are the best driver out there.
I wish her all the best and all the success, but F3 onwards is such a difficult ladder to climb, even if you are the best driver out there.
knowitall said:
Let’s face it, if she was a great driver - particularly being female - she would have a very easy ride up the motorsport ladder.
But her 2020 season in Formula Regional really showed her up as being merely a ‘good’ driver, not great.
She was in the four car Prema Team…by far the most dominant team. She had the best car, best team and best funding. Her three teammates were all rookies. Her three teammates finished 1st, 2nd and 3rd in the championship - winning multiple races, pole positions and fastest laps on the way to a dominating season.
Chadwick finished 9th on just 80 points. Her teammates had an average of 348 points each. She was hopelessly outclassed in every aspect.
No wonder she’s back in W Series. It’s a pay day for her and she can be a big fish in a very small pond.
Good point well made - in all the hype surrounding Chadwick (particularly around this time) little to no mention was made of her campaign in this series. I was in fact unaware of it until researching your claims, instead swallowing what the mainstream media chose to focus on which was her affiliation with Williams and previous performances in other series.But her 2020 season in Formula Regional really showed her up as being merely a ‘good’ driver, not great.
She was in the four car Prema Team…by far the most dominant team. She had the best car, best team and best funding. Her three teammates were all rookies. Her three teammates finished 1st, 2nd and 3rd in the championship - winning multiple races, pole positions and fastest laps on the way to a dominating season.
Chadwick finished 9th on just 80 points. Her teammates had an average of 348 points each. She was hopelessly outclassed in every aspect.
No wonder she’s back in W Series. It’s a pay day for her and she can be a big fish in a very small pond.
Edited by knowitall on Tuesday 22 February 20:25
Edited by knowitall on Tuesday 22 February 20:26
Her reply to the reaction to staying in W Series
https://twitter.com/JamieChadwick/status/149690881...
https://twitter.com/JamieChadwick/status/149690881...
bockaaarck said:
I was under the distinct impression she was going to move on to something else? I guess if the opportunity to keep racing, fully funded in W Series is available, I can’t say I blame her. Was kind of wondering whether she might move in to GT racing or something similar.
She likely wanted to, only her stock wasn't as valuable as W Series makes it seem so was not offered anything. It seems her ability is so "great" that she couldn't even get a pay driver role, even with the benefit of being a female racing driver and therefore judged to lower standards because of it. Even Calderon & Floersch were able to get GP3/F3 drives, take away from that what you will.FourWheelDrift said:
You'd think they agree a Championship winning prize with a sponsor that funds a season of F3 racing wouldn't you, I mean they must have considered it, right.....right......
I imagine they would have enquired with some teams about doing it, it however would have been a hard sell as the team that agreed to it were pretty much guaranteed to have a below par driver occupying one of their cars. It would have guaranteed one of their cars would eternally be at the back because being the champion of W Series does not mean you are a good enough driver to be good enough for F3.If such an arrangement was going to be put into place, it would be with a credible & high quality series at the F3 Regional level, not the weakest and shortest series at that specification.
Peacockantony said:
bockaaarck said:
Even Calderon & Florsch were able to get GP3/F3 drives, take away from that what you will..
cocked up the quoting , my bit is below.Sofia Florsch obviously thought she was too good for W series and I thought she was quite good but checked her career
results before posting ,it's not exactly sparkling .Did alright in Ginetta junior .
Edited by Divieto di Sosta on Saturday 26th February 22:08
HorneyMX5 said:
Abbie Eaton was fairly critical at the beginning and is now racing in it, but I suspect she’s also disappointed it’s not opening doors for those at the front.
She was critical of it until she wanted to suckle at the teat, then she had to grovel to the W Series management and starting towing their line in order to take part in it. Sophia Floersch took a lot of flack for her stance against it but everything she said has been proven to be correct as it turns out.As a series that holds only 6 & 8 race long competitions with a field that is realistically weaker than F4 series it really shouldn't be a surprise that doors aren't opening, teams when looking out for talent know what to look for and winning such a poor quality series doesn't make you look like a hot prospect, especially if you're results are sub-par elsewhere.
Chadwick & Pulling show the problem with W, Chadwick won it but isn't good enough to progress further or get decent results in other series, Pulling came from the rung below and immediately bettered most of the drivers.
l354uge said:
If the series can't fund a F2 seat for the champion then what is the point.
Teams aren't going to take millions less from a driver just because she's female, especially if she can only be compared against good but mostly unproven competition. Money talks until you get to the very top of F1, yes some are funded by teams but they are rare and exceptional.
F2? F3 would a big enough challenge. The 2021 FRECA champ even only moved up to F3 and he contested a far greater quality championship.Teams aren't going to take millions less from a driver just because she's female, especially if she can only be compared against good but mostly unproven competition. Money talks until you get to the very top of F1, yes some are funded by teams but they are rare and exceptional.
If the series wants to not be a dead-end it really needs to create a F3 team of it's own that is can send it's champion to. Doing this would then prove either that they are worthy of being in F3 or prove that winning it is meaningless due to them intentionally giving drives to low ability drivers.
df76 said:
Significantly more than that for a season of FIA F3, and then more again for Prema. Chadwick would have to raise another chunk of cash and won't want to burn her prize fund running around at the back of a F3 grid.
Well, what exactly do you think she should want? It's not as if she is some hot talent that has just won a hotly contested championship against other quality drivers across a lengthy season of races. A back of the grid F3 drive off of the back of W Series results would be a mighty outcome.Chadwick's previous comments about wanting decent drives does rather make her look rather entitled. Surely any seat in a higher series should be welcomed, then from there you can show your worth and try to get a better seat.
thegreenhell said:
I've read somewhere recently that although she was being run by the Prema team, she provided her own car rather than using one of Prema's own. If that's true then the implication is that she was tight on budget even for that and had to settle for what was probably a second hand car which may not have had the same level of prep as her teammates.
Surely though this shouldn't matter. Even if it was a car sourced from elsewhere, it is still being prepared by them. What difference is there between this and them sourcing the car themselves and running it?Ultimately when you're a pay driver who only has a drive because you paid for it and don't have the results to earn it also then you aren't going to get the greatest treatment, are you. It all however does sound suspiciously like clutching at straws to find excuses for the terrible results. With her experience, she should have been more than capable of overcoming this though, especially is she is as good as some want to make her out to be.
Chunkychucky said:
Good point well made - in all the hype surrounding Chadwick (particularly around this time) little to no mention was made of her campaign in this series. I was in fact unaware of it until researching your claims, instead swallowing what the mainstream media chose to focus on which was her affiliation with Williams and previous performances in other series.
Her shockingly poor 2020 FREC season is just ignored, in order to allow this delusion that Chadwick will supposedly be in F1 in a few years despite showing no real indication that this is the case. Her results here were not just bad, they were shockingly bad. A driver that competes in all events in the calendar and finishes behind two drivers that only competed in a handful of races really isn't that capable.Her role within Williams is massively overstated, she basically has a role within Williams that is designed to teach & benefit her rather than her role benefitting the team, yet some people act as if she has a role developing the F1 car.
Divieto di Sosta said:
cocked up the quoting , my bit is below.
Happens to us all sometimes. I work with banking IT systems yet make mistakes on forums like this.Divieto di Sosta said:
Sofia Florsch obviously thought she was too good for W series and I thought she was quite good but checked her career
She is too good for W Series, she has competed in FREC & F3, both of which are above the level of W. FREC while also a F3 Regional series the same as W is very much a higher quality F3 Regional series, and F3 is a level above both of these. She would have gained nothing from competing in W considering since in inception it has always been below her current level.Sophia finished not only 2 positions higher in 2019 FREC championship compared to Jamie's 2020 FREC result, but she also wasn't beaten by part-time drivers like Jamie was.
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