If you was in charge of TOCA... what would you change?
Discussion
TO73074E said:
The Team BMR Subaru Levorg's used the FA20 turbo engine which was only in the JDM and ADM Levorg. UK only had the 1.6 engine at the time, 2019 on was 2.0 NA.
Indeed, the current grid already seems full of cars unavailable for sale. Plus recent cars like the Infiniti and MG6 that were being raced for years after they stopped being sold (and Infiniti even leaving the UK market) - and hardly sold in any great number when you could buy them.
The Astra being raced this year is the previous generation (that has been out of production for 3 years).
The fastback Hyundai i30N in 2.0 litre form seems to be long gone too.
Truckosaurus said:
Indeed, the current grid already seems full of cars unavailable for sale.
Plus recent cars like the Infiniti and MG6 that were being raced for years after they stopped being sold (and Infiniti even leaving the UK market) - and hardly sold in any great number when you could buy them.
The Astra being raced this year is the previous generation (that has been out of production for 3 years).
The fastback Hyundai i30N in 2.0 litre form seems to be long gone too.
Continuing to race old cars a few years after they are no longer manufactured is one thing. But if we don't have suitable vehicles being brought to market, what will happen a few years from now? Can't keep racing old cars forever. Well, you can, but then it becomes historic, not BTCC.Plus recent cars like the Infiniti and MG6 that were being raced for years after they stopped being sold (and Infiniti even leaving the UK market) - and hardly sold in any great number when you could buy them.
The Astra being raced this year is the previous generation (that has been out of production for 3 years).
The fastback Hyundai i30N in 2.0 litre form seems to be long gone too.
Whoever takes over from Alan Gow will need to plan for the 2030s. Trying different track layouts and qualifying formats won't cut it.
One of my suggestions from a while back was to have a “super meeting”, basically getting BTCC, GB3, GB4, possibly Euro F3, Porsche Supercup, historic F1, historic touring cars, Ginetta Juniors, maybe even some karts, all on the same programme on the same weekend, as a ‘festival of motorsport’ event that’s halfway between the Goodwood FoS and the F1.
You’d probably want it at Silverstone, on the full GP circuit, and as close as possible after the F1 date so the infrastructure is all in place, and aim to sell 80-100k tickets at £10/day for three days, maybe £10 more for centre transfer access.
It would be hellish to organise, and even more hellish to try and televise the whole event, but it’s got to be worth trying it once.
As for the BTCC cars, well the Germans experimented with what were basically LMP2 cars with a silhouette body, and it went very expensive very quickly. Perhaps scaling that down, and building a bespoke steel-framed saloon ‘touring car’ for a whole bunch of different European championships, so a few hundred cars, might be the way to go?
You’d probably want it at Silverstone, on the full GP circuit, and as close as possible after the F1 date so the infrastructure is all in place, and aim to sell 80-100k tickets at £10/day for three days, maybe £10 more for centre transfer access.
It would be hellish to organise, and even more hellish to try and televise the whole event, but it’s got to be worth trying it once.
As for the BTCC cars, well the Germans experimented with what were basically LMP2 cars with a silhouette body, and it went very expensive very quickly. Perhaps scaling that down, and building a bespoke steel-framed saloon ‘touring car’ for a whole bunch of different European championships, so a few hundred cars, might be the way to go?
Sandpit Steve said:
One of my suggestions from a while back was to have a “super meeting”, basically getting BTCC, GB3, GB4, possibly Euro F3, Porsche Supercup, historic F1, historic touring cars, Ginetta Juniors, maybe even some karts, all on the same programme on the same weekend, as a ‘festival of motorsport’ event that’s halfway between the Goodwood FoS and the F1.
You’d probably want it at Silverstone, on the full GP circuit, and as close as possible after the F1 date so the infrastructure is all in place, and aim to sell 80-100k tickets at £10/day for three days, maybe £10 more for centre transfer access.
It would be hellish to organise, and even more hellish to try and televise the whole event, but it’s got to be worth trying it once.
As for the BTCC cars, well the Germans experimented with what were basically LMP2 cars with a silhouette body, and it went very expensive very quickly. Perhaps scaling that down, and building a bespoke steel-framed saloon ‘touring car’ for a whole bunch of different European championships, so a few hundred cars, might be the way to go?
I was thinking something like this when I suggested BTCC needs to start talking to other touring car championships to plan the future. But design a chassis that can wear recognizable silhouette bodywork. Touring cars need a notional link to 'normal' road cars. You’d probably want it at Silverstone, on the full GP circuit, and as close as possible after the F1 date so the infrastructure is all in place, and aim to sell 80-100k tickets at £10/day for three days, maybe £10 more for centre transfer access.
It would be hellish to organise, and even more hellish to try and televise the whole event, but it’s got to be worth trying it once.
As for the BTCC cars, well the Germans experimented with what were basically LMP2 cars with a silhouette body, and it went very expensive very quickly. Perhaps scaling that down, and building a bespoke steel-framed saloon ‘touring car’ for a whole bunch of different European championships, so a few hundred cars, might be the way to go?
SpudLink said:
I was thinking something like this when I suggested BTCC needs to start talking to other touring car championships to plan the future. But design a chassis that can wear recognizable silhouette bodywork. Touring cars need a notional link to 'normal' road cars.
Yes that was my thinking, and it can go one of two ways: either a single silhouette chassis that can be branded as appropriate, or (perhaps somewhat optimistically) an homologation series, aiming to have every manufacturer do the equivalent of a GR Yaris, that they can sell 10k of across Europe. The powertrains are going to be more controversial, but I’d go with as few gimmicks as possible and just put air and fuel flow limiters in place on the last of the conventional engines.
SpudLink said:
I was thinking something like this when I suggested BTCC needs to start talking to other touring car championships to plan the future. But design a chassis that can wear recognizable silhouette bodywork. Touring cars need a notional link to 'normal' road cars.
Thats basically what V8 supercars do and their "fans" moan constantly about them not being real cars.I do agree with you.
Some great ideas & discussions...Re the junior series...
I was thinking about using restricted Radicals for the Juniors.
They would be a good move up from Karting & a half way house between a saloon or GT career.
Legends style format would be used... so that they can all enjoy the full reverse grid experience.
Edited by Milkyway on Friday 7th June 06:32
Rotary Potato said:
Short term -
- Get into the 'Legends' business (no ... not the dinky little cars used for the support race). Imagine a support series with classic touring cars on the main TOCA package. You could do races from the 1960s, the 1970s, the 1980s, etc. all the way through to previous generation cars. Tempt back a few old drivers to relive their glory days (who wouldn't fancy seeing John Cleland in a 1990s Vauxhall, Alain Menu in a Laguna or Matt Neal in an old Primera) and run it as a series of 1-off historic feature races - rather than a championship.
That would be amazing, would get me back at the circuits for sure. I'd imagine the current drivers would love to mix it with the legends in historic cars to fill the seats. Loads of ££££ to launch and run though and suspect Silverstone Classic would be a bit "Erm, naw, that's our show"- Get into the 'Legends' business (no ... not the dinky little cars used for the support race). Imagine a support series with classic touring cars on the main TOCA package. You could do races from the 1960s, the 1970s, the 1980s, etc. all the way through to previous generation cars. Tempt back a few old drivers to relive their glory days (who wouldn't fancy seeing John Cleland in a 1990s Vauxhall, Alain Menu in a Laguna or Matt Neal in an old Primera) and run it as a series of 1-off historic feature races - rather than a championship.
Define a 'Touring car'.......I still think of it as a saloon, with five doors, and either a boot, or hatch. How many are still sold? Isn't the biggest type of car sold in the UK, the SUV? I don't think I want to see a race series of SUVs.
I don't envy those making the decisions; the BTCC surely has to reflect what is being driven, otherwise, it becomes an historic series.....
I don't envy those making the decisions; the BTCC surely has to reflect what is being driven, otherwise, it becomes an historic series.....
... Ewe are quite correct.ArnageWRC said:
Define a 'Touring car'.......I still think of it as a saloon, with five doors, and either a boot, or hatch. How many are still sold? Isn't the biggest type of car sold in the UK, the SUV? I don't think I want to see a race series of SUVs.
I don't envy those making the decisions; the BTCC surely has to reflect what is being driven, otherwise, it becomes an historic series.....
Don’t need more than two doors to go salon car racing.I don't envy those making the decisions; the BTCC surely has to reflect what is being driven, otherwise, it becomes an historic series.....
Don Veloci said:
Rotary Potato said:
Short term -
- Get into the 'Legends' business (no ... not the dinky little cars used for the support race). Imagine a support series with classic touring cars on the main TOCA package. You could do races from the 1960s, the 1970s, the 1980s, etc. all the way through to previous generation cars. Tempt back a few old drivers to relive their glory days (who wouldn't fancy seeing John Cleland in a 1990s Vauxhall, Alain Menu in a Laguna or Matt Neal in an old Primera) and run it as a series of 1-off historic feature races - rather than a championship.
That would be amazing, would get me back at the circuits for sure. I'd imagine the current drivers would love to mix it with the legends in historic cars to fill the seats. Loads of ££££ to launch and run though and suspect Silverstone Classic would be a bit "Erm, naw, that's our show"- Get into the 'Legends' business (no ... not the dinky little cars used for the support race). Imagine a support series with classic touring cars on the main TOCA package. You could do races from the 1960s, the 1970s, the 1980s, etc. all the way through to previous generation cars. Tempt back a few old drivers to relive their glory days (who wouldn't fancy seeing John Cleland in a 1990s Vauxhall, Alain Menu in a Laguna or Matt Neal in an old Primera) and run it as a series of 1-off historic feature races - rather than a championship.
The elephant in the room is the SUV. I would hazard a guess that a large portion of spectators arrive in them at the circuits. We either accept the Ford Kuga type bodystyle with what we have with the NGTC or we go smaller cars. A grid of Fabia, Yaris, Mini, Polo etc sized stuff like the WRC did. Well let's be honest the modern supermini isn't that small anymore.
Skodapondy said:
The elephant in the room is the SUV. I would hazard a guess that a large portion of spectators arrive in them at the circuits. We either accept the Ford Kuga type bodystyle with what we have with the NGTC or we go smaller cars. A grid of Fabia, Yaris, Mini, Polo etc sized stuff like the WRC did. Well let's be honest the modern supermini isn't that small anymore.
We can't go down that route... The BSUVC sounds awful.Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff