European Whole Vehicle Approval and USA Standards

[tjones5420]

Bit of question for our legal department really, but anyone know how close the European Whole Vehicle Approval is to the US regualtions for safety and emissions?

This may ease the transition to the US for TVR if those 2 are pretty close.

Cheers

[fizz]

I think the biggest difference lies in crash standards, myself. PW (the Lord Master) was quoted in Autocar that making the engine emission compliant was totally doable. I think the issues are LHD and crash testing, myself!

[jhough]

Are there actual requirements that cars be LHD here?

TVR and Aston Fanatic
Audi TT owner
Former Acura NSX owner

Edited by jhough on Friday 19th October 22:54

[faisalkhan]

There is no requirement that the car be LHD. The Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards can be obtained from the NHTSA. There are too many to list here.

[jpf]

I think from a marketing standpoint LHD
will be essential, but you are correct Faisal regarding LHD not being a statutory requirement--just crash testing and emissions.
Faisal, have you ever had your Cerbie emission tested in California (for kicks)?

[venom7]

I know in Canada(because I've been pulled over for it) RHD owners must post a bumper sticker on the rear of the car (something like 7"x12", which is bigger than any bare patch on the rear of a Seven) to warn others that the car is RHD. As well the officer tried to tell me that rhd cars are dangerous in the world of LHD because too many drivers rely on eye contact with others and this would confuse LHD drivers....."whatever you think Mr. officer, now give me my damn ticket".

[PiB]

Well, US regs also have a crazy 5 mph bumper rule. From what I can tell people are putting on removable 5 mph bumbers for apporval and then taking them off. THIS IS NUTS, small quantity imports should not be subject to this. I think, what this rule does is reduce insurance cost nationally in a big way. So it's good and bad and I guess it is prolly one of the easier regs to comply with. With the Evo 7 I heard that it's intercooler in the lower airdamn would get destroyed in a 5mph test.

There should be a quota each year allowed for non-complying cars that could get passed through and could pay a one time small fee for non-compliance.(Tax Revenue pleases gov's heart)

Ideally euro area and usa regs would be exactly the same. This would benefit the consumer the most. Even if the Euro are gets stricter emissions and crash standards there is still a barage of regulation dissimularities that need to be adjusted for. I can't see stricter Euro rules hurting importation thou, it's pretty bad as it is. I believe (not sure) the Evo 7 has an airbag and has an identical/impotent sibling in the US already yet to import the Evo 7 it is as tough as an elise.

It's funny how when i compare a Dodge Viper and a TVR Tuscan how the TVR is so much meaner, leaner, and better.

PiB

Edited by PiB on Thursday 8th November 20:01

Edited by PiB on Thursday 8th November 20:17

[CraigLand]

It's funny how such a big Nation is so far behind in many areas of it's infrastructure. I am a Brit living in the USA and am often intrigued how Americna rely so much on size being everything, and yet they do not have the basic's in place to make them really as strong as they could be.
This whole subject of RHD drive cars being allowed in a LHD society is so crazy. Is this the only Country in the World that can only drive a car in one position? Actually, in reality, the whole trsting process in the US should be revised for a start so people can actually drive a car properly in the first place!
When I was back in the UK, I had a LHD car and there were no problems with insurance, vehicle testing or safety. I appreciate that because of the size of the US it will be a major change if the DMV is not set up to accept RHD cars, but please, lets start thinking outside the box here, you live in a big country so start thinking on a bigger scale!!

[al27]

I would love to think the whole issue centered around RHD vs. LHD. Alas, the issue centers around emissions and crash tests.

The EU has CO2 standards, USA does not for example.

The USA crash tests cars differently than the EU.

I would give anything to own a Tuscan, but I'm afraid TVR's resources just aren't there to make the committment to complying with the North American version of safety and emissions.

[PiB]

quote:
It's funny how such a big Nation is so far behind in many areas of it's infrastructure. I am a Brit living in the USA and am often intrigued how Americna rely so much on size being everything, and yet they do not have the basic's in place to make them really as strong as they could be.
This whole subject of RHD drive cars being allowed in a LHD society is so crazy. Is this the only Country in the World that can only drive a car in one position? Actually, in reality, the whole trsting process in the US should be revised for a start so people can actually drive a car properly in the first place!

What exactly are you saying? Right hand drive is not a problem in US, it is very unusual. Do you think it would be unsafe, or contradictory to other strict rules? (I would say yes to the later) What does "trsting" mean.

What we have here in the US is a Gov. Dept., NHTSA, that doesn't know when to stop. Their people seem to be looking for things to do and rules to make. I'm reading reports in the Federal Register where latches on the back of Galandawagens are being replaced so they are compliant.

The EPA emissions is tricky because from what I understand a car must constantly check itself for pollution a warn the driver if it is polluting. (Usually means engine is out of tune) But you won't have any unburt/partially burn fuel comeing out the back of the irrate V8 anymore. From a person importing a cars stand point adding OBD-2 is next to impossable. PW may be able to manufacture the programing quite easily into a new car. We (usa) seem to care more about micro toxics than the more massive non toxic C0-2. Which doesn't make sense.

I don't think the US's infrastucture is that bad. We are behind on 3g wireless thou. (Somebody was sitting on their arse when they should have been...)

[Graham and Rosie]

quote:
I would love to think the whole issue centered around RHD vs. LHD. Alas, the issue centers around emissions and crash tests.

The EU has CO2 standards, USA does not for example.

The USA crash tests cars differently than the EU.

I would give anything to own a Tuscan, but I'm afraid TVR's resources just aren't there to make the committment to complying with the North American version of safety and emissions.

The biggest problem is that TVR are excempt from EU approval as they are a small manufacturer (less than 500 of each model - hence the Red Rose, R, S etc Tuscans?) and this is why TVR do not sell them outside the UK - they are not able to as the excemption is only in the UK, hence the cars would need to be designed for all the tests, emissions, crash tests etc and if you are revisiting the design for Europe, why not make it work for the USA and wherever at the same time - hence it takes a long time as you decide where you want/can sell the cars and then meet the regulations for that country as well as all the others!!

Clear as mud? Thank you!!

[drd]

So, are you saying that TVR limits production so that they can be exempt from safety/emission laws?

Is TVR at its maximum capacity based on existing statutes?

Is the cost of compliance to different safety/emission laws in the EU/USA so great that it keeps TVR out of these markets?

Don't bum me out dude...

[thirsty]

I always wondered how TVR managed to get away with building and selling these cars legally. They are not even close to being compliant to modern safety and emision standards. (yeah.... so what?)

When I recently bought my Chim 450, I knew that they were probably an endangered species. Now that I have had it for a couple of weeks, I realize that there is probably no other cars like TVR in the world.

Everyone these days is really high on crash testing and pollution control. Don't hold it against the USA for not wanting your car. I just appreciate the fact that I can own and drive a TVR here !!

With an "anti car" government in power these days, I always worry about some tax or regulation that could be a death sentence to TVRs even here in the UK.

[kip]

For as politically incorrect TVR's lack os safety/emission equipment is, I doubt the UK would let TVR go out of business due to regulatory/tax changes.

Still wish TVR was expanding their horizons, though.

[nmlowe]

quote:

The biggest problem is that TVR are excempt from EU approval as they are a small manufacturer (less than 500 of each model - hence the Red Rose, R, S etc Tuscans?) and this is why TVR do not sell them outside the UK

Then why does the TVR website:
www.tvr-eng.co.uk show that there are TVR authorised dealers in other european countries such as france?

[drd]

If I'm correct, isn't 90% of TVR's production for the Mother country?
A better question would be--since TVR has dealers in Europe, why aren't they selling more cars there?

[thom]

quote:
If I'm correct, isn't 90% of TVR's production for the Mother country?
A better question would be--since TVR has dealers in Europe, why aren't they selling more cars there?

Just because TVR is only known by a few enthusiasts. And the average European from the continent has had a motoring education full of ferraris and Porkers.
And he would not bother buying a car from a manufacturer he has never heard of and which has virtually no recognised international racing pedigree (read Le Mans series).
And what is he going to do with a car he can't show off in it because people have never heard of the name written on it? "TVR? What's that? Never heard of it. Therefore it shouldn't be worth anything if I have never heard of it".
And because TVR has very few dealers in Europe: since few cars are sold, dealers aren't in the best position to learn about the engines; and because possible customers may be put off by possible dealer's non mechanical capability they don't buy the cars. That's what we call a vicious circle

[al27]

Probably the issue of LHD contributes to TVR's European sales problem too...

What's going on with LHD?

[fizz]

Now I hear there is an issue with making more than 2,000 cars a year?
Since TVR makes their own engines, they must think about expanding capacity--they can't spread their fixed costs over enough units!

[kip]

Just saw in another area of Pistonheads that Arizona is pretty accomodating for registering cars...