V8 Supercharger Kits
Discussion
Right lads... while your all waiting for TVR to get their act together regarding U.S sales, do us a favour over here and see if you can source a supercharger system ,off the shelf ,that fits a TVR V8.Its based on the U.S Crysler V8 I believe.
....You guys have got all the best goodies while we have the best sports cars...
..Im happy to swap parts info....
Tractorboy is refering to the 'old' V8 lump used in the Griffs & Chimps from '93 onwards and Wedges prior to that. The Cerbera's AJP engine is an entirely different beast.
It's usually referred to as a 'Rover' V8 as it was used extensively by Rover in Land Rovers, Range Rovers and other cars (SDI anyone?) over the last 30 years. Morgan also used the same engine.
It originates in the US as a Buick engine (1962 model 215 - but possibly developed from as early as 1957?). Its fair to say that its been somewhat re-worked from its Buick days, but there's bound to be someone in the US who could add a supercharger or somesuch to the modified TVR engine...
TVR themselves supercharged the Rover V8 engine, after sleeving it down to 2 litres. This was for the S model, back in 1989/90 so that the car could be sold in Italy without being penalised by the huge tax levied by the Italian government on cars with large capacity engines.
In addition, a TVR dealer based in Barrow-in-Furness (Haughins) fitted a DPR supercharger to a few (4?)new 350i cars to make the 350SX. Unfortunately, this modification did not meet with TVR's approval and ultimately led to Haughins demise.
Oldsmobile also used this engine, and had as an option a turbo w/water injection available. Only problem I can see is underhood (bonnet) room, and how to convince your computors to accept all of this. MAP sensor would go bonkers, but I'm sure some enterprising gent can find another marques sensor to substitute, then reprogram computor to match...good luck-keep the boost below 20psi........
quote:Wasn't the Rover V8 sometimes also fitted with a Sprintex Supercharger? They're still available.....in Australia. http://www.powerhousecorp.net/sprintex.htm Roy Edited by Roy C on Thursday 23 August 07:46
a TVR dealer based in Barrow-in-Furness (Haughins) fitted a DPR supercharger to a few (4?)new 350i cars to make the 350SX. Unfortunately, this modification did not meet with TVR's approval and ultimately led to Haughins demise.
Supercharged TVR's I've got one of the sprintexed 350's - they made about 11 some of which were 390's - I know where at laest six of them are.
To correct Roy - The Sprintex conversion was factory approved and Haughins lost the dealership over another matter entirely - David Haughin was apersonal friend of mine and a great loss.
I too knew Dave personally and was shocked when he committed suicide. The factory supported the SX to the extent of supplying 400 bodies and uprated drive gear. My subjective impressions at the time (1988) of the comparison between a normal 350i and the 350SX was that the in-gear acceleration of the SX was way better (feeling like you were in 1st not 3rd etc).
I opened talks with Sprintex in Australia last month about the supercharger but have been too busy to follow up recently. I would like to take the latest version onto the Griffith and Chimaera as I already have bonnet modification plans that keep the same appearance but have better air throughput and clearance. An idea of the potential interest would be encouraging.
Clive Reed
Zertec Limited
info@zertec.co.uk
www.zertec.co.uk
Message for Clive at Zertec - you may find that the Sprintex is a bit of a heavy old beast to slot under the bonnet of a Griff - I compared my Griff to the SX on several occasions and I reckon that installation would pose many problems that the larger 350 engine bay does not. Try talking to Dennis Priddle at Supercharger systems at Yeovil, he was doing lightweight ally superchargers which fitted in the vee - I think they were Swedish. If you can't find the firm, Dennis is in the book and always keen to talk about forced induction.
By the way you may like to know that my SX has done over 70k miles and the engine and supercharger have been fine so far touch wood....
I've been looking at supercharging as well and the best option at the moment looks like a powerdyne blower .www.powerdyne.com/
there is a company in australia who do a kit for the Discovery serp and non serp
www.capa.com.au/landy_kits.htm
the kit looks very flexable and can be bolted almost anywhere.
A lot of the other kits i've seen bolt to the top of a moded plenum. I heard there were problems with fuel distribution on some of these, with some cylinders runing rich and some lean.
The capa/powerdyne kit places the blower in front of the standard airflow metre so distribution should be ok?
In short im interested...
What i would really like is a blower with an clutch mechanism and an ecu with two or more selectable fuel maps.
i.e one map for blower off pootling around town, and one map for blower on nutter mode.
Graham Walden
Forget about the conventional superchargers this is what you need:www.roulunds-rotrex.com/rotrex/index.htm
Give them a call and they will provide you with a custom made kit to your spec.. For starters this charger is so effective,if you replace an ordinary Eaton with the rotrex you will gain app. 15 kW plus its very compact.
Give them a call and they will provide you with a custom made kit to your spec.. For starters this charger is so effective,if you replace an ordinary Eaton with the rotrex you will gain app. 15 kW plus its very compact.
Firstly, RPi Engineering (one of the foremost Rover V8 tuners) is quite against supercharging the motors based on the Rover V8... apparently the motor doesn't respond well to the applications. That said, I'll ignore RPi's advise and go on with my post.
That roulands rotrex isn't too impressive, it's a centrifugal supercharger with what appears to be a Laycock De Normanville style overdrive attached (as a method of changing it's gear ratio while in drive, to maintain higher turbine speed). Wrong way to go about it mates... Aerodyne here in the USA went about it differently, and maximised their turbine efficiency through the use of Variable Tip Inclination. Only problem is... they only produce it as a turbocharger, this is probably the absolute pinnacle in current forced induction products... not to mention their VATN turbochargers are also the most efficient.
Air / Fuel bias in supercharged V8s is a result of poor inlet manifold design. The bias is towards the rear-most cylinders, while the frontal ones run lean.
Eaton blowers, contrary to what has been written here, aren't that bad. They are VERY cheap, and Eaton has been able to use the R&D money of Ford and GM to increase the efficiency of the Rootes design dramatically.
Lysholm superchargers (Sprintex, Autorotor, Whipple, etc) are great too. But the manufacturing process means they are quite expensive, and some designs can be on the bulky side. Nice high efficiency, at the cost of a high expendature of money.
Centrifugal (Powerdyne, Rotrex, etc) aren't that great at all. They're extremely limited in their usability range, as they are engine RPM dependant (except in the case of the Rotrex, with it's overdrive mechanism). Still will give spikey power delivery, and still within a limited RPM range... as centrifugal superchargers (as well as turbochargers) are only highly efficienct in terms of flow and energy consumption when the tip velocity of the turbine begins to reach the speed of sound (some where around 100,000-125,000RPM).
What is the way to go for a V8? Definitely the Eaton or Lysholm route. It will be the easiest to design, the cheapest to implement and yield the most results for the cost outlay.
I will be glad to entertain more indepth discussions about forced induction, kmr@pil.net. (I don't read the boards everyday)
Kai
That roulands rotrex isn't too impressive, it's a centrifugal supercharger with what appears to be a Laycock De Normanville style overdrive attached (as a method of changing it's gear ratio while in drive, to maintain higher turbine speed). Wrong way to go about it mates... Aerodyne here in the USA went about it differently, and maximised their turbine efficiency through the use of Variable Tip Inclination. Only problem is... they only produce it as a turbocharger, this is probably the absolute pinnacle in current forced induction products... not to mention their VATN turbochargers are also the most efficient.
Air / Fuel bias in supercharged V8s is a result of poor inlet manifold design. The bias is towards the rear-most cylinders, while the frontal ones run lean.
Eaton blowers, contrary to what has been written here, aren't that bad. They are VERY cheap, and Eaton has been able to use the R&D money of Ford and GM to increase the efficiency of the Rootes design dramatically.
Lysholm superchargers (Sprintex, Autorotor, Whipple, etc) are great too. But the manufacturing process means they are quite expensive, and some designs can be on the bulky side. Nice high efficiency, at the cost of a high expendature of money.
Centrifugal (Powerdyne, Rotrex, etc) aren't that great at all. They're extremely limited in their usability range, as they are engine RPM dependant (except in the case of the Rotrex, with it's overdrive mechanism). Still will give spikey power delivery, and still within a limited RPM range... as centrifugal superchargers (as well as turbochargers) are only highly efficienct in terms of flow and energy consumption when the tip velocity of the turbine begins to reach the speed of sound (some where around 100,000-125,000RPM).
What is the way to go for a V8? Definitely the Eaton or Lysholm route. It will be the easiest to design, the cheapest to implement and yield the most results for the cost outlay.
I will be glad to entertain more indepth discussions about forced induction, kmr@pil.net. (I don't read the boards everyday)
Kai
In Kairadickes defence , the rotrex supercharger is a relatively new design.
It consists of a patended fixed ratio planetary drive. the compressor has an adiabatic effiency ranging up to 80% which can't be said about any other compressor on the market . I have dyno tested cars fitted with Rotrexes and seen what they can do .
Please tell me more about the Aerodyne I believe the Rotrex could be modified to run with allmost any turbine.
Edited by Jeep92 on Wednesday 24th October 09:19
It consists of a patended fixed ratio planetary drive. the compressor has an adiabatic effiency ranging up to 80% which can't be said about any other compressor on the market . I have dyno tested cars fitted with Rotrexes and seen what they can do .
Please tell me more about the Aerodyne I believe the Rotrex could be modified to run with allmost any turbine.
Edited by Jeep92 on Wednesday 24th October 09:19
"In Kairadickes defence , the rotrex supercharger is a relatively new design."
No it isn't. Paxton used a similar setup over the past few decades with their centrifugal supercharger. Paxton has now graduated to using gears instead of the "overdrive", which they're finding to be more effective.
The use of the planetary drive / overdrive / whatever you want to call it relies on friction, friction creates heat. This is why the old Paxtons, and even that Rotrex can employ (and should employ) an oil cooler specifically for the supercharger. Even Rotrex recommends this.
"It consists of a patended fixed ratio planetary drive."
All fine and well, so they may have some innovations in the way it operates. Still not a new concept, been around for ages now in automatic gearboxes and gearbox overdrives. And like I said... the old Paxtons.
"the compressor has an adiabatic effiency ranging up to 80% which can't be said about any other compressor on the market."
Opcon Autorotor... Sprintex... ummm 85% plus (no oil cooler needed).
"Please tell me more about the Aerodyne I believe the Rotrex could be modified to run with allmost any turbine."
I doubt you could, the Aerodyne VATN turbochargers are very sophisticated... and the way they change the pitch of the fins while spinning is very complicated, which is why I'm waiting until they're reliability is proven before playing with them more. They're being used in Formula SAE here in the USA, with good results. But those motors aren't run for sustained periods of time, and most often are limited to under 9psi of boost.
www.aerocharger.com/
And for the record, the 4th generation Eaton superchargers are doing about 70-75% adiabatic, and more when they are toleranced and S-ported, to remove some extra material from the manufacturing process and time the rotors precisely (they leave Eaton/Magnuson timed slighly conservatively).
Kai
No it isn't. Paxton used a similar setup over the past few decades with their centrifugal supercharger. Paxton has now graduated to using gears instead of the "overdrive", which they're finding to be more effective.
The use of the planetary drive / overdrive / whatever you want to call it relies on friction, friction creates heat. This is why the old Paxtons, and even that Rotrex can employ (and should employ) an oil cooler specifically for the supercharger. Even Rotrex recommends this.
"It consists of a patended fixed ratio planetary drive."
All fine and well, so they may have some innovations in the way it operates. Still not a new concept, been around for ages now in automatic gearboxes and gearbox overdrives. And like I said... the old Paxtons.
"the compressor has an adiabatic effiency ranging up to 80% which can't be said about any other compressor on the market."
Opcon Autorotor... Sprintex... ummm 85% plus (no oil cooler needed).
"Please tell me more about the Aerodyne I believe the Rotrex could be modified to run with allmost any turbine."
I doubt you could, the Aerodyne VATN turbochargers are very sophisticated... and the way they change the pitch of the fins while spinning is very complicated, which is why I'm waiting until they're reliability is proven before playing with them more. They're being used in Formula SAE here in the USA, with good results. But those motors aren't run for sustained periods of time, and most often are limited to under 9psi of boost.
www.aerocharger.com/
And for the record, the 4th generation Eaton superchargers are doing about 70-75% adiabatic, and more when they are toleranced and S-ported, to remove some extra material from the manufacturing process and time the rotors precisely (they leave Eaton/Magnuson timed slighly conservatively).
Kai
i have a 1989 range rover classic with a 3.9L v8 motor. i purchased a sprintex supercharger that needs to be rebuilt, i was just wondering if you think that is a good wrought to go for my truck. i use it mainly for offroading (trails in the desert, sand dunes and a little rock crawling). i was just wondering if its worth my time. and what kind of power increase do you think that i should expect. thanx for your time.
Sonny
Tucson Arizona
Sonny
Tucson Arizona
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