M-series/Taimar vs Lotus Elan
Discussion
Seeing as my Cerbera has turned out to be annoyingly reliable 
, my thoughts have been turning recently to doing a restoration project.
I want something properly old i.e. pre-1980, but also something that'll actually be a great drive when it's finished (rather than just a "pretty" old car). Authenticity will not by high up the priority list, so it shouldn't be something that commands silly prices and demands that you keep everything 100% original(e.g. E-types).
Things with plastic/GRP bodywork are also appealing because I'm not that interested in spending days and days repairing metal body panels which have turned into doilly-lace.
So, early thoughts are a Lotus Elan, or a TVR M-series/Taimar.
There'd be a fair amount of modernisation going on in the build process - probably with a Zetec engine for the Elan, or an Cossie V6 for the TVR, decent modern brakes and coilovers, whichever option I went for.
Anyone care to offer thoughts on which is likely to be the better drive at the end of the process?
, my thoughts have been turning recently to doing a restoration project.I want something properly old i.e. pre-1980, but also something that'll actually be a great drive when it's finished (rather than just a "pretty" old car). Authenticity will not by high up the priority list, so it shouldn't be something that commands silly prices and demands that you keep everything 100% original(e.g. E-types).
Things with plastic/GRP bodywork are also appealing because I'm not that interested in spending days and days repairing metal body panels which have turned into doilly-lace.
So, early thoughts are a Lotus Elan, or a TVR M-series/Taimar.
There'd be a fair amount of modernisation going on in the build process - probably with a Zetec engine for the Elan, or an Cossie V6 for the TVR, decent modern brakes and coilovers, whichever option I went for.
Anyone care to offer thoughts on which is likely to be the better drive at the end of the process?
Nefarious said:
Seeing as my Cerbera has turned out to be annoyingly reliable , my thoughts have been turning recently to doing a restoration project.
I want something properly old i.e. pre-1980, but also something that'll actually be a great drive when it's finished (rather than just a "pretty" old car). Authenticity will not by high up the priority list, so it shouldn't be something that commands silly prices and demands that you keep everything 100% original(e.g. E-types).
Things with plastic/GRP bodywork are also appealing because I'm not that interested in spending days and days repairing metal body panels which have turned into doilly-lace.
So, early thoughts are a Lotus Elan, or a TVR M-series/Taimar.
There'd be a fair amount of modernisation going on in the build process - probably with a Zetec engine for the Elan, or an Cossie V6 for the TVR, decent modern brakes and coilovers, whichever option I went for.
Anyone care to offer thoughts on which is likely to be the better drive at the end of the process?
The M series car if rebuilt properly will make a nice daily driver as will the Elan. Both will cost a fortune to retore correctly, both will suffer in terms of end valoue by being built to an odd spec in terms of engine. The Z-tec in the elan sounds like a good move in terms of performance and reliability, the V6 Cosworth lump a backward move for the M. The M will feel more together than a Taimar. , my thoughts have been turning recently to doing a restoration project.I want something properly old i.e. pre-1980, but also something that'll actually be a great drive when it's finished (rather than just a "pretty" old car). Authenticity will not by high up the priority list, so it shouldn't be something that commands silly prices and demands that you keep everything 100% original(e.g. E-types).
Things with plastic/GRP bodywork are also appealing because I'm not that interested in spending days and days repairing metal body panels which have turned into doilly-lace.
So, early thoughts are a Lotus Elan, or a TVR M-series/Taimar.
There'd be a fair amount of modernisation going on in the build process - probably with a Zetec engine for the Elan, or an Cossie V6 for the TVR, decent modern brakes and coilovers, whichever option I went for.
Anyone care to offer thoughts on which is likely to be the better drive at the end of the process?
Biased, but I would go the M route with a modified Essex lump and not be drawn to rear discs as an "upgrade".
While the body on a TVR is not intended to be a stressed part it is in reality. The more complete M body work rather than the cut about Taimar, make the car feel more taught - unless of course you were proposing to install a cage... and then they're as good as each other afterwards.
Any of the cologne lumps will not breath as well as the essex engine and I assumed the change would be for additional power? Lots of work for little gain in anything other than standard form IM(probably biased)O.
Any of the cologne lumps will not breath as well as the essex engine and I assumed the change would be for additional power? Lots of work for little gain in anything other than standard form IM(probably biased)O.
Taimar
Pros
TVRs Top Of The Range Vehicle - less made than M series
Easy Rear Access to Luggage Space/Petrol Tank/Rear Differential/etc
Cons
Tailgate can rattle
Gas Struts are not man enough for the job
Hinges Rust
Electric Opening Solenoid goes AWOL
As TVR_Owner says an M will feel more taut, however they are both great cars, I wouldn't necessarily buy one over the other, but buy the one that is in the right condition for you.
davidy
Pros
TVRs Top Of The Range Vehicle - less made than M series
Easy Rear Access to Luggage Space/Petrol Tank/Rear Differential/etc
Cons
Tailgate can rattle
Gas Struts are not man enough for the job
Hinges Rust
Electric Opening Solenoid goes AWOL
As TVR_Owner says an M will feel more taut, however they are both great cars, I wouldn't necessarily buy one over the other, but buy the one that is in the right condition for you.
davidy
I had a friend who owned a Lotus Elan +2 (big valve).
Blowing past him with my 2500M was easy and joyful.
Lotus:
If memory serves, the intake manifold is cast into the cylinder head. It's a Weber head OR an SU/Stromberg head. MAKE SURE YOU GET THE RIGHT ONE!
The headlights open, or is it close, via a vacuum storage canister (read: tomato juice can) that rots out bi-weekly.
The chassis, while being a clever design, was finished poorly and is prone to rot.
This was a boring car to drive, the only excitement coming from wondering if you’d make it to your destination.
If you must get a Lotus, get the open version and find all the period correct speed parts including big wheels and Gold Leaf livery.
Remember that Chapman only sold these as a means to a revenue stream to fund his racing endeavors.
TVR M:
What’s not to like?
Blowing past him with my 2500M was easy and joyful.
Lotus:
If memory serves, the intake manifold is cast into the cylinder head. It's a Weber head OR an SU/Stromberg head. MAKE SURE YOU GET THE RIGHT ONE!
The headlights open, or is it close, via a vacuum storage canister (read: tomato juice can) that rots out bi-weekly.
The chassis, while being a clever design, was finished poorly and is prone to rot.
This was a boring car to drive, the only excitement coming from wondering if you’d make it to your destination.
If you must get a Lotus, get the open version and find all the period correct speed parts including big wheels and Gold Leaf livery.
Remember that Chapman only sold these as a means to a revenue stream to fund his racing endeavors.
TVR M:
What’s not to like?
or a vixen project with a V6 cosworth on ebay actually??
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TVR-Vixen-S3-1971_W0QQitemZ2...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TVR-Vixen-S3-1971_W0QQitemZ2...
Fancied a Lotus Elan 2+2 a while ago and had a test drive in one. What a dissapointment! Noisy, road holding not impressive and overall finish very poor. Had several TVR's, the Lotus 2+2 does not even come close.
M cars exceptional value at the moment. S2 and S3 also worth considering, I ran an S3 for over 100,000 miles and found it generally very reliable inexpensive to run and tremendous fun.
L O T U S is reputed to mean: Loads Of Trouble Usually Serious.
If you are considering an Elan go for the soft top, superb handling but IMHO a bit flimsy for motoring these days.
Would not want a prang in one. The M Series TVR's indeed all TVR's are immensely strong and many drivers have escaped serious injury due to their ruggedness.
M cars exceptional value at the moment. S2 and S3 also worth considering, I ran an S3 for over 100,000 miles and found it generally very reliable inexpensive to run and tremendous fun.
L O T U S is reputed to mean: Loads Of Trouble Usually Serious.
If you are considering an Elan go for the soft top, superb handling but IMHO a bit flimsy for motoring these days.
Would not want a prang in one. The M Series TVR's indeed all TVR's are immensely strong and many drivers have escaped serious injury due to their ruggedness.
Well I have a 1600m and a close friend of mine the +2 130/5.
On looks I think the lotus wins hands down! And having a back seat is a plus as there is little space left in the M once you've got 2 people in it. As for the noise, I only find the +2 loud if it has K&N's on it. With the original box it's nice a quiet, unless you poke your right toe into the carpet!
On the downside, all the parts seem to be a million pounds and then you tend to need to be Mr Tickle to fit them. The engine bay is tight!
The M on the other hand is simple and cheap to maintain, there's loads of room to work in and I've not had any problems I couldn't fix myself.
Both are a pile of fun to drive, and as soon as I get my engine sorted I'll have almost the same bhp in a lighter car...
Is the question then; Do you want a little more space and interior refinement and fun, or a few quid more in your pocket and fun?
Personnel; I don't need a map light.
Rob
On looks I think the lotus wins hands down! And having a back seat is a plus as there is little space left in the M once you've got 2 people in it. As for the noise, I only find the +2 loud if it has K&N's on it. With the original box it's nice a quiet, unless you poke your right toe into the carpet!
On the downside, all the parts seem to be a million pounds and then you tend to need to be Mr Tickle to fit them. The engine bay is tight!
The M on the other hand is simple and cheap to maintain, there's loads of room to work in and I've not had any problems I couldn't fix myself.
Both are a pile of fun to drive, and as soon as I get my engine sorted I'll have almost the same bhp in a lighter car...
Is the question then; Do you want a little more space and interior refinement and fun, or a few quid more in your pocket and fun?
Personnel; I don't need a map light.
Rob
I know I am late to the conversation but I do have some valid experience !
I own both.
I am on my second lotus elan+2s130
I sold the first. Regretted it a few years later to discover I was priced out of the market.... discovered the TVR M3000...
TVR versus Elan
First impressions :
The TVR feels like a tank to drive. When I first got mine it was so heavy to park the previous owner had snapped the steering wheel ! Definitely not lithe or a racing car. By comparison the lotus is light, easy to drive and has sublime road holding. Performance is similar on the road. My TVR was vastly improved with better tyres and larger steering wheel (15")
The interior:
The lotus is a lovely place to be. Burl walnut, chrome bezels leatherbound steering wheel...leatherette... A selection of gauges including a clock and temperature ! Map reading light etc. The TVR is not in the same league here.
The TVR feels cramped and the driving position is .... unusual. I found the gear lever to be in the wrong place and it is cramped down by the pedals for feet over a size 5...
The TVR bodywork is miles ahead of lotus. The TVR is at least twice as thick. I was very surprised by this as they are from the same era and both suffer from star cracks at stress points. But the TVR body is much better quality.
The lotus chassis is like toothpicks compared to scaffolding. The tvr chassis is infinitely stronger. No less prone to corrosion than the lotus but at least you can weld the TVR chassis without blowing holes through it !
Costs
The TVR is lovely to work on. Nice and simple. Parts are reasonable. The lotus is a pain to work on. Parts are all available but doing the same jobs on a lotus is twice the price. The engine in particular. The tvr engine is a monster lump. The lotus is a delicate lightweight. But a rebuild on your lotus will suck up 2-3 k with no major performance mods. The v6 in the tvr can be picked up on ebay for a couple of hundred and 2k goes along way on the v6.
Bottom line
The tvr is good fun. Keeps going regardless and they major advantage is cost ! Cheaper to buy. Insure and maintain... and sounds better too.
I ended up with another lotus +2 it's nice to have the larger door
I own both.
I am on my second lotus elan+2s130
I sold the first. Regretted it a few years later to discover I was priced out of the market.... discovered the TVR M3000...
TVR versus Elan
First impressions :
The TVR feels like a tank to drive. When I first got mine it was so heavy to park the previous owner had snapped the steering wheel ! Definitely not lithe or a racing car. By comparison the lotus is light, easy to drive and has sublime road holding. Performance is similar on the road. My TVR was vastly improved with better tyres and larger steering wheel (15")
The interior:
The lotus is a lovely place to be. Burl walnut, chrome bezels leatherbound steering wheel...leatherette... A selection of gauges including a clock and temperature ! Map reading light etc. The TVR is not in the same league here.
The TVR feels cramped and the driving position is .... unusual. I found the gear lever to be in the wrong place and it is cramped down by the pedals for feet over a size 5...
The TVR bodywork is miles ahead of lotus. The TVR is at least twice as thick. I was very surprised by this as they are from the same era and both suffer from star cracks at stress points. But the TVR body is much better quality.
The lotus chassis is like toothpicks compared to scaffolding. The tvr chassis is infinitely stronger. No less prone to corrosion than the lotus but at least you can weld the TVR chassis without blowing holes through it !
Costs
The TVR is lovely to work on. Nice and simple. Parts are reasonable. The lotus is a pain to work on. Parts are all available but doing the same jobs on a lotus is twice the price. The engine in particular. The tvr engine is a monster lump. The lotus is a delicate lightweight. But a rebuild on your lotus will suck up 2-3 k with no major performance mods. The v6 in the tvr can be picked up on ebay for a couple of hundred and 2k goes along way on the v6.
Bottom line
The tvr is good fun. Keeps going regardless and they major advantage is cost ! Cheaper to buy. Insure and maintain... and sounds better too.
I ended up with another lotus +2 it's nice to have the larger door
Nefarious said:
a Cossie V6 for the TVR
Cossie V6 is "old hat" now, and parts can be expensive. The newer Ford/Jaguar V6 could be a better option 
I know you said you want "old" but have you considered an S Series, lot cheaper to buy and they do have a "retro look" ?
I have an S and a Taimar, S feels far more modern and solid with a lot of Ford Sierra running gear rather than Triumph stuff on the M/Taimar which was past its sell by date even back in the seventies!
1558cc Lotus Elan on track, one of the best handling cars ever...........
https://youtu.be/xqMbxuwI5uc
https://youtu.be/xqMbxuwI5uc
I am relatively new to TVR, but having had the pleasure of driving some fast and fun tricked out cars like 930 turbos, and 323i Schnitzers, TVR M series are far more fun. My car (3000S, cannot beat a ragtop) came with a mid 1990's Oselli Rally spec upgraded Essex V6 3.0L (rugged engine, reliable engine, hard to break). The owner was still not satisfied with the upgrades, added a Weber six pack of 40 DCNF's, limited slip differential, racing clutch, headers, direct ignition, and suspension upgrades and a roll bar. Went from 142 bhp to 250 bhp. Its fast and very fun. And it still gets fuel economy very close to the original spec engine if I am not sticking my foot into the firewall and sounds so close to narley V8 like the AC Cobras without the overhead. Find yourself a nice 3000S, and have the time of your life.
Edited by SquashedCat on Saturday 3rd October 05:58
a Lotus Elan +2130 is a 2+2 and 900 kgs. If you want to compare aLotus to M series use like for like e.g. a Lotus Elan Sprint 700 kgs.
I have owned at the same time 1973 Lotus Elan +2s130/4 , 1972 Lotus Elan Sprint fhc , 1975 TVR 1600M and a TVR 3000S. All the cars are very different, the quickest drivers car is the Elan Sprint by far, the most comfortable with lots of gadjets is the Elan +2S130, the TVR 3000S for open top cruising which has a 5 speed gearbox fitted. the Bright Yellow 1600M to make looks of noise and attract lots of attention.
well that's my collection of classic cars in my garage
Alan
I have owned at the same time 1973 Lotus Elan +2s130/4 , 1972 Lotus Elan Sprint fhc , 1975 TVR 1600M and a TVR 3000S. All the cars are very different, the quickest drivers car is the Elan Sprint by far, the most comfortable with lots of gadjets is the Elan +2S130, the TVR 3000S for open top cruising which has a 5 speed gearbox fitted. the Bright Yellow 1600M to make looks of noise and attract lots of attention.
well that's my collection of classic cars in my garage
Alan
Edited by plasticpig72 on Saturday 3rd October 06:52
Edited by plasticpig72 on Saturday 3rd October 06:55
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