essex V6 - up to the job?
Discussion
Now my Scimitar GTE (Essex 3.0 V6) is up and running (and 4 sale) I find myself feeling that the performance is only adequate and certain not sporting by modern standard, fair enough it is an auto which wont help
But I want my Taimar (barn find currently non runner) to be a fast car by modern standard eg 6.5 secs or less to 0-60 mph, can I get this expect this of performance out of an essex V6 at a reasonable cost and still have a motor you cold live with on a day a to day basis? I would add I have never driven a Taimar so have no real feel for what to expect. Restoration will be starting shortly when my Scimitar is sold.
Regards
Rob
But I want my Taimar (barn find currently non runner) to be a fast car by modern standard eg 6.5 secs or less to 0-60 mph, can I get this expect this of performance out of an essex V6 at a reasonable cost and still have a motor you cold live with on a day a to day basis? I would add I have never driven a Taimar so have no real feel for what to expect. Restoration will be starting shortly when my Scimitar is sold.
Regards
Rob
The Essex tractor lump is an old asmatic wheezer deffo not up to the job;)
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=NbXBSLRvgHU
N.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=NbXBSLRvgHU
N.
heightswitch said:
They just dont seem interseted in discussing what they produce. Got quite wound up with them trying to assertain the relative merits of their engines.Maybe the guy was having a worse day than me at the time. (ps Neil, I didn't buy a 3.4 from them....or anyone else for that matter)
TVR_owner said:
heightswitch said:
They just dont seem interseted in discussing what they produce. Got quite wound up with them trying to assertain the relative merits of their engines.Maybe the guy was having a worse day than me at the time. (ps Neil, I didn't buy a 3.4 from them....or anyone else for that matter)
I know of a very nice engine built by these guys that has raced for about 4 seasons now and never missed a beat.
N.
heightswitch said:
TVR_owner said:
heightswitch said:
They just dont seem interseted in discussing what they produce. Got quite wound up with them trying to assertain the relative merits of their engines.Maybe the guy was having a worse day than me at the time. (ps Neil, I didn't buy a 3.4 from them....or anyone else for that matter)
I know of a very nice engine built by these guys that has raced for about 4 seasons now and never missed a beat.
N.
Some shots of the Red Shed Progress here. http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Edited by TVR_owner on Saturday 28th June 12:41
heightswitch said:
Thanks - What do you consider reasonable money and will it get me modern performance levels e.g. to 60mph in 6.5secs or less.On a more general note is a standard Taimar/3000M quite fast in standard tune?
Regards
Rob
robgte said:
heightswitch said:
Thanks - What do you consider reasonable money and will it get me modern performance levels e.g. to 60mph in 6.5secs or less.On a more general note is a standard Taimar/3000M quite fast in standard tune?
Regards
Rob
N.
Robgte
A few years ago I had a modified Taimar, that would have met your performance requirements. I would have estimated that it would have comfortably met your 0-60 time but the real performance was in the 30-90mph band where on one occassion it out accelerated my (235bhp) Impreza Turbo being driven by my wife, who was not known for being slow being an airline pilot (and Griff500) at the time!
I reckon that my car was pushing out around 200bhp (It was rolling roaded at 160bhp at the wheels but not in it's final configuration). To help you the mods were:-
Powermax High Compression Pistions, Fully Balanced bottom End, Vulcan Big Valve Head with matched inlet manifold and Weber 40DFI with Custom K&N filter, all carefully put together by a guy who built Essex Egines up for the Hartwell Rally Capris in the 70's. I would have thought that it was similar to a Group A Cari Spec of the 70's
I also have a remote oil filter assembly and one of Adrian Venn's bigger radiators
But a real power gain came when I fitted a Tony Law Bunch of Banana Manifold and Exhaust YSstem to the car, the id range punch increased dramtically. Contact GAjon for details on this.
A Taimer can easily be made quick even with the 'old' tractor engine, but personally I feel that you must also uprate the suspension and for piece of mind, the brakes. Also moving to a larger wheel diamter offers more choice of modern performance rubber.
Unfortunately after I sold my car, I understand it was written off, I know some parts have appeared on other cars, but I don't know what happened to the engine.
Alternatively if you want a very quick Essex Engine then you could go for a Adrian Venn Modified Turbo or mad engine like GAjon!
I know that heightswitch seems to 'hate' the Essex Engine with a passion, but it can be good (and reliable), I did approx 30k miles in mine after the rebuild with about 4000 on track, before any significant work was required). Transplants don't always work well in a M chassis as the upper chassis rails are two close/height up together and at the wrong height for many V8's
davidy
A few years ago I had a modified Taimar, that would have met your performance requirements. I would have estimated that it would have comfortably met your 0-60 time but the real performance was in the 30-90mph band where on one occassion it out accelerated my (235bhp) Impreza Turbo being driven by my wife, who was not known for being slow being an airline pilot (and Griff500) at the time!
I reckon that my car was pushing out around 200bhp (It was rolling roaded at 160bhp at the wheels but not in it's final configuration). To help you the mods were:-
Powermax High Compression Pistions, Fully Balanced bottom End, Vulcan Big Valve Head with matched inlet manifold and Weber 40DFI with Custom K&N filter, all carefully put together by a guy who built Essex Egines up for the Hartwell Rally Capris in the 70's. I would have thought that it was similar to a Group A Cari Spec of the 70's
I also have a remote oil filter assembly and one of Adrian Venn's bigger radiators
But a real power gain came when I fitted a Tony Law Bunch of Banana Manifold and Exhaust YSstem to the car, the id range punch increased dramtically. Contact GAjon for details on this.
A Taimer can easily be made quick even with the 'old' tractor engine, but personally I feel that you must also uprate the suspension and for piece of mind, the brakes. Also moving to a larger wheel diamter offers more choice of modern performance rubber.
Unfortunately after I sold my car, I understand it was written off, I know some parts have appeared on other cars, but I don't know what happened to the engine.
Alternatively if you want a very quick Essex Engine then you could go for a Adrian Venn Modified Turbo or mad engine like GAjon!
I know that heightswitch seems to 'hate' the Essex Engine with a passion, but it can be good (and reliable), I did approx 30k miles in mine after the rebuild with about 4000 on track, before any significant work was required). Transplants don't always work well in a M chassis as the upper chassis rails are two close/height up together and at the wrong height for many V8's
davidy
Thanks - that's the sort of info I was after. Out of interest did that fire breathin dragon run with a standard 4 speed box?
I may have a word with John Wade about getting my current engine rebuilt to a decent spec. He seems to know his onions and is a perfectionist (with assocated cost). Progress is somewhat hampered currently due to chronic lack of space in garage - I have 3 cars stored in what is fundemantally a large 2 car garage - I can barely get a feeler guage in there let alone restore a 30 year old car. My Scimitar will be going soon with any luck - which will free up space and generate a bit of cash to throw down another bottomless pit!
Regards
Rob
I may have a word with John Wade about getting my current engine rebuilt to a decent spec. He seems to know his onions and is a perfectionist (with assocated cost). Progress is somewhat hampered currently due to chronic lack of space in garage - I have 3 cars stored in what is fundemantally a large 2 car garage - I can barely get a feeler guage in there let alone restore a 30 year old car. My Scimitar will be going soon with any luck - which will free up space and generate a bit of cash to throw down another bottomless pit!
Regards
Rob
Edited by robgte on Sunday 29th June 12:47
David, the Ledas were revalved and are on my Grantura and the brakes are in a cupboard in my garage. rest of car seems to have gone "underground"
When the Essex engine was current and Ford Capris were winning everything in racing the top engine builders were Swaymar. The 2 owners of Swaymar were "bought out" by Richard Williams to build his Aston race engines. They still do Essex engines and some superb parts. They know more about tuning these engines than most but as with all good things the best is never the cheapest
The fundamental problem with the engine is it doesn,t breath very well (that is why the turbos were so quick, they had it rammed down their throats). It was originally designed to be a diesel engine which explains why everything is so heavyweight. The key to getting any performance from it revolves around the valve lift, anything below 0.4 inch produces an astmatic engine which runs out of puff at about 3500 rpm. There are plenty of good cams around nowadays including some very good ground from blanks from the above. The general wisdom is that it would be an awesome engine if you put the carbs on the exhaust ports and the exhaust out of the inlet ports!!
When the Essex engine was current and Ford Capris were winning everything in racing the top engine builders were Swaymar. The 2 owners of Swaymar were "bought out" by Richard Williams to build his Aston race engines. They still do Essex engines and some superb parts. They know more about tuning these engines than most but as with all good things the best is never the cheapest
The fundamental problem with the engine is it doesn,t breath very well (that is why the turbos were so quick, they had it rammed down their throats). It was originally designed to be a diesel engine which explains why everything is so heavyweight. The key to getting any performance from it revolves around the valve lift, anything below 0.4 inch produces an astmatic engine which runs out of puff at about 3500 rpm. There are plenty of good cams around nowadays including some very good ground from blanks from the above. The general wisdom is that it would be an awesome engine if you put the carbs on the exhaust ports and the exhaust out of the inlet ports!!
Edited by thegamekeeper on Sunday 29th June 14:17
DavidY said:
Neil
I should have put a smiley in too, as I put 'hate' in quotes assuming that it would ('might') be taken in jest
All the best
davidy
Its a serious business is engine choice david. Everyone Knows that an Essex Tractor lump only truly becomes a good boat anchor when an extra 2 cylinders are added to the back of itI should have put a smiley in too, as I put 'hate' in quotes assuming that it would ('might') be taken in jest
All the best
davidy
Just closed the garage for the day: N.
Neil
Don't disagree, however you can't fit one of those easily to an M series chassis. I know it's been done (Dave Smith 302 in an S) but its not trivial and the exhaust flow is severely restricted due to the upper chassis rail being at the same height as the outlets.
Nice work BTW, hope to see it on track along with TVR_owner (daftlad) proper racing M at some point
davidy
Don't disagree, however you can't fit one of those easily to an M series chassis. I know it's been done (Dave Smith 302 in an S) but its not trivial and the exhaust flow is severely restricted due to the upper chassis rail being at the same height as the outlets.
Nice work BTW, hope to see it on track along with TVR_owner (daftlad) proper racing M at some point
davidy
DavidY said:
Neil
Don't disagree, however you can't fit one of those easily to an M series chassis. I know it's been done (Dave Smith 302 in an S) but its not trivial and the exhaust flow is severely restricted due to the upper chassis rail being at the same height as the outlets.
Nice work BTW, hope to see it on track along with TVR_owner (daftlad) proper racing M at some point
davidy
I always thought the M and Thurner chassis were broadly similar in terms of main member heights David.Don't disagree, however you can't fit one of those easily to an M series chassis. I know it's been done (Dave Smith 302 in an S) but its not trivial and the exhaust flow is severely restricted due to the upper chassis rail being at the same height as the outlets.
Nice work BTW, hope to see it on track along with TVR_owner (daftlad) proper racing M at some point
davidy
A 289 / 302 is a much simpler prospect than a Rover due to its relatively narrow top end. Not that any of it is simple mind you. One day I will build a 5000M when I find a suitable pre 73 car.
I hope John hits the Anglesey deadline. Mine is looking like a pipe dream for that event so I will assume my usual spannering role for Geoff. I will be out hopefully before the year end. It seems that all the simple detail jobs now turn into half a day each.
N.
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