Turbo technicalities?
Discussion
Hello everyone, I'm a fresh face here, I'm normally seen in the Cerbera forum.
This is a quick question, but probably not a quick answer, does anyone know how TVR reduced the compression ratio of the Essex engine and retarded the ignition timing with boost?
I'm wanting to try and turbocharge a v6, but don't want to blow it up with too much boost/to high a compression.
Thanks in advance.
This is a quick question, but probably not a quick answer, does anyone know how TVR reduced the compression ratio of the Essex engine and retarded the ignition timing with boost?
I'm wanting to try and turbocharge a v6, but don't want to blow it up with too much boost/to high a compression.
Thanks in advance.
Give JW development a call...He has on loan my piston holder to enable him to hold the piston in a lathe and machine to suit (he will also have pistons to suit), I ran 292BHP on the 38 carb/ electonic boost retard (done 30+ of them @222 bhp ish) and now have bottom fed injector and fully ECU control holley 950 system in place and hope to being 310-315 bhp.
Adrian@
TVR never did retard, and the facts around 230BHP are fiction, as the cars were spec'd at 218BHP from broadspeed (ALL with 5 star) so a good standard car will run 190BHP retarded to suit fuel as is today...HOWEVER up the piston spec and build, a balanced unit (TVR spec'd +- 1oz on piston weights!!) with very trick turbo and you will get plus 250BHP.
Adrian@
Adrian@
TVR never did retard, and the facts around 230BHP are fiction, as the cars were spec'd at 218BHP from broadspeed (ALL with 5 star) so a good standard car will run 190BHP retarded to suit fuel as is today...HOWEVER up the piston spec and build, a balanced unit (TVR spec'd +- 1oz on piston weights!!) with very trick turbo and you will get plus 250BHP.
Adrian@
Edited by Adrian@ on Monday 12th November 16:55
Thanks very much for that Adrian.
Does that mean the std pistons have a good thick crown, to be able to machine enough off (how much?) to get the compression down?
I guess it would be best to get a boost retard controller for igniton, do you know where to get one from? Also do you know how much boost the standard cars had?
Just as a matter of interest (I'm using K jetronic mechanical injection) how do you turbo a carburetor without it blowing all the fuel out of the carb breathers?
Thanks once again.
Does that mean the std pistons have a good thick crown, to be able to machine enough off (how much?) to get the compression down?
I guess it would be best to get a boost retard controller for igniton, do you know where to get one from? Also do you know how much boost the standard cars had?
Just as a matter of interest (I'm using K jetronic mechanical injection) how do you turbo a carburetor without it blowing all the fuel out of the carb breathers?
Thanks once again.
Hi,
Boost-Pressure is about 9 PSI standard, and with Micro Dynamics Turbo Management System - EMS 3, You can handle Boost Pressures up to 18 PSI !
I actually have polished Stage III -Heads fitted and I got 245 BHP at the axle - with compression ratio of 8.5 :1 ( 8:1 is Turbo specification normally )
- my uncle was a Ford-Zakspeed-mechanic in the 70th , so we put some further improvements inside the Engine wich I can not exactly exlain...
But as Adian said , there is a lot of tuning potential in the Essex V6 !
Boost-Pressure is about 9 PSI standard, and with Micro Dynamics Turbo Management System - EMS 3, You can handle Boost Pressures up to 18 PSI !
I actually have polished Stage III -Heads fitted and I got 245 BHP at the axle - with compression ratio of 8.5 :1 ( 8:1 is Turbo specification normally )
- my uncle was a Ford-Zakspeed-mechanic in the 70th , so we put some further improvements inside the Engine wich I can not exactly exlain...
But as Adian said , there is a lot of tuning potential in the Essex V6 !
jbvipercerb said:
Thanks very much for that Adrian.
Does that mean the std pistons have a good thick crown, to be able to machine enough off (how much?) to get the compression down?
I guess it would be best to get a boost retard controller for igniton, do you know where to get one from? Also do you know how much boost the standard cars had?
Just as a matter of interest (I'm using K jetronic mechanical injection) how do you turbo a carburetor without it blowing all the fuel out of the carb breathers?
Thanks once again.
The standard piston can and was machined to bring the compression down, but without reliable retatrd systems TVR/Broadspeed play with different compressions to try to resolve 4 star related det. MAX advance with a shorter curve with un metered fueling being drawn direct from the float chamber! (with rolling road 'experts' thinking that they had fueled the carb correctly, when on long periods of boost the float chambers NEVER coped) the after market TVR Turbo must of funded a good few beers at the expense of the reputaion of them being an explosion waiting to happen. I carry the boost retard system but can only guess at how you are going pressure the system up, TVR Broadspeed did it with a carb within abox running Lbs pressure of 6 on Capri's (3 piece boxes with little hope of staying pressured) and 8 on TVR's (1 piece well thoughtout box) My car ran 22 and has shown boost of 400BHP, but the car broke the skirts of the pistons! it is just nice at 12 but I also ran an intercooler, extra fuel injection and pressure release and had re-advance dialed into the system too, the new system will map according to a TP/mass/temp. Does that mean the std pistons have a good thick crown, to be able to machine enough off (how much?) to get the compression down?
I guess it would be best to get a boost retard controller for igniton, do you know where to get one from? Also do you know how much boost the standard cars had?
Just as a matter of interest (I'm using K jetronic mechanical injection) how do you turbo a carburetor without it blowing all the fuel out of the carb breathers?
Thanks once again.
Adrian@
Edited by Adrian@ on Monday 12th November 19:21
@ All
My Turbo has the Pirhania-Electronic Ignition System fitted ( I think standard on the Turbos )-
and I have problems, so that the engine stops firering suddenly - and after probably 5-15 minutes checking all the cables, it will start
immediately ... not knowing if there is a broken cable ???
Sometimes it quits after a stop ( at the Filling Station ) and not willing to start for some Minutes either ...
I first put out the Immobiliser, wich was fitted, but this was not the fault !
I could imagine the Pirhania has the fault ( the new Factory-Name is Newtronics I think ).
Does anybody know same effects ???
My Turbo has the Pirhania-Electronic Ignition System fitted ( I think standard on the Turbos )-
and I have problems, so that the engine stops firering suddenly - and after probably 5-15 minutes checking all the cables, it will start
immediately ... not knowing if there is a broken cable ???
Sometimes it quits after a stop ( at the Filling Station ) and not willing to start for some Minutes either ...
I first put out the Immobiliser, wich was fitted, but this was not the fault !
I could imagine the Pirhania has the fault ( the new Factory-Name is Newtronics I think ).
Does anybody know same effects ???
This is all good. Dare I ask if the 2.8 Colone v6 has as much metal in the pistons as the Essex, also, Adrian, do you know how much was machined off the piston to get the compression to even 8.5:1 as Axel suggests?
Axel, I guess your problem is something over heating after running a while, it does sound as if its the ignition module of the piranah system, that could be hard to get hold of now, but I know PerTronix do aftermarket electronic ignitions for a wide veriety of distributors which fit inside the distributor so you cant see any modifications, worth a try?
Axel, I guess your problem is something over heating after running a while, it does sound as if its the ignition module of the piranah system, that could be hard to get hold of now, but I know PerTronix do aftermarket electronic ignitions for a wide veriety of distributors which fit inside the distributor so you cant see any modifications, worth a try?
jbvipercerb said:
This is all good. Dare I ask if the 2.8 Colone v6 has as much metal in the pistons as the Essex, also, Adrian, do you know how much was machined off the piston to get the compression to even 8.5:1 as Axel suggests?
Axel, I guess your problem is something over heating after running a while, it does sound as if its the ignition module of the piranah system, that could be hard to get hold of now, but I know PerTronix do aftermarket electronic ignitions for a wide veriety of distributors which fit inside the distributor so you cant see any modifications, worth a try?
Hi,Axel, I guess your problem is something over heating after running a while, it does sound as if its the ignition module of the piranah system, that could be hard to get hold of now, but I know PerTronix do aftermarket electronic ignitions for a wide veriety of distributors which fit inside the distributor so you cant see any modifications, worth a try?
Newtronic has the Kit for 70 GBP exactly for 3000 M,Taimars and even Turbos ( Kit called T43A )
Problaby I ´ll buy a New one.
The problem occurs sometimes after 2minutes of driving at 4 deg. Cent. (Yesterday), so the engine was really not warm !
Four times I had problems to start the car directly in my garage !
- But there has been gaps between the faults from 2 weeks !!!
Really mystic !
These Tivi´s have there own will .
jbvipercerb said:
This is all good. Dare I ask if the 2.8 Colone v6 has as much metal in the pistons as the Essex, also, Adrian, do you know how much was machined off the piston to get the compression to even 8.5:1 as Axel suggests?
Axel, I guess your problem is something over heating after running a while, it does sound as if its the ignition module of the piranah system, that could be hard to get hold of now, but I know PerTronix do aftermarket electronic ignitions for a wide veriety of distributors which fit inside the distributor so you cant see any modifications, worth a try?
John at JW will know, I, when building turbo engines I have copied the pistons that TVR had in as original prefering to keep the ratio as was, as I said they come with differing ratio trying to deal with the det issues.(Alex...the orignal engine I did for your car was at that time the best engine I had built and would rev to 7500RPM and blow oil out of the dip stick, (due to the diff ratio and the crank spraying oil around at high RPM, I sold it thinking that no other person is mad enough to rev it like that! so never did put a modiified dip stick in. You need to check the spark plugs (flame blowout at +4000rpm which will over heat the coil) ballest resistor (heat related/over heat) newtronic/piranha (the unit has a test sheet to be checked when the car is faulty, but the plugs corrode into the unit (Lumenition now own this part of Newtronic, and are in the process of marketing parts again, Newtronic going is why I upgraded to ECU control) I PRESUME that you are still running the boost retard and if so which version (if it is a 3 or 5 they fail like this and have a plug to overide the system, IF you overide the system DO NOT boost the car.Axel, I guess your problem is something over heating after running a while, it does sound as if its the ignition module of the piranah system, that could be hard to get hold of now, but I know PerTronix do aftermarket electronic ignitions for a wide veriety of distributors which fit inside the distributor so you cant see any modifications, worth a try?
Adrian@
(Alex...the orignal engine I did for your car was at that time the best engine I had built and would rev to 7500RPM and blow oil out of the dip stick, (due to the diff ratio and the crank spraying oil around at high RPM, I sold it thinking that no other person is mad enough to rev it like that! so never did put a modiified dip stick in. You need to check the spark plugs (flame blowout at +4000rpm which will over heat the coil) ballest resistor (heat related/over heat) newtronic/piranha (the unit has a test sheet to be checked when the car is faulty, but the plugs corrode into the unit (Lumenition now own this part of Newtronic, and are in the process of marketing parts again, Newtronic going is why I upgraded to ECU control) I PRESUME that you are still running the boost retard and if so which version (if it is a 3 or 5 they fail like this and have a plug to overide the system, IF you overide the system DO NOT boost the car.
Adrian@
[/quote]
Hello Adrian,
sadly to say that the guy I bought the car from ( Tim Layzell ) has blown its original Engine - maybe while doing his Hillclimbs with it ...
So I bought it with an refurbished unit ( all the ancillaries , but the Block itself not original Numbers ).
Where the dipstick should be, there was a Gun-Bullet to stop leaking oil !!!
I got pliers to get this out !
I think this Essex is not blueprintet , but balanced and leadfree ...
There is EMS 3 fitted ( how did You overide the system ? switch on/ off in the plug ? ).
I actually drive without turbocharger ( dismantled for checking axle-play ),and standard-exhausts -
so there is no danger to overboost !
But with the TVR I sorted so much electrical fails out- don´t know who lay his hands on this ?
Adrian@
[/quote]
Hello Adrian,
sadly to say that the guy I bought the car from ( Tim Layzell ) has blown its original Engine - maybe while doing his Hillclimbs with it ...
So I bought it with an refurbished unit ( all the ancillaries , but the Block itself not original Numbers ).
Where the dipstick should be, there was a Gun-Bullet to stop leaking oil !!!
I got pliers to get this out !
I think this Essex is not blueprintet , but balanced and leadfree ...
There is EMS 3 fitted ( how did You overide the system ? switch on/ off in the plug ? ).
I actually drive without turbocharger ( dismantled for checking axle-play ),and standard-exhausts -
so there is no danger to overboost !
But with the TVR I sorted so much electrical fails out- don´t know who lay his hands on this ?
Hi Axel
OK....The EM3 has a connector block about 3 inchs away from the unit and they should be a black connector with a white link wire ty-rapped onto the wire loom, you disconnect the EMS3 and plug this in (this is a get you home mode). I have not fited a EMS3 since that car and now only fit EMS6's.
Adrian@
OK....The EM3 has a connector block about 3 inchs away from the unit and they should be a black connector with a white link wire ty-rapped onto the wire loom, you disconnect the EMS3 and plug this in (this is a get you home mode). I have not fited a EMS3 since that car and now only fit EMS6's.
Adrian@
Edited by Adrian@ on Monday 12th November 21:56
Adrian@ said:
Hi Axel
OK....The EM3 has a connector block about 3 inchs away from the unit and they should be a black connector with a white link wire ty-rapped onto the wire loom, you disconnect the EMS3 and plug this in (this is a get you home mode). I have not fited a EMS3 since that car and now only fit EMS6's.
Adrian@
Thank You Adrian for Your help...OK....The EM3 has a connector block about 3 inchs away from the unit and they should be a black connector with a white link wire ty-rapped onto the wire loom, you disconnect the EMS3 and plug this in (this is a get you home mode). I have not fited a EMS3 since that car and now only fit EMS6's.
Adrian@
Edited by Adrian@ on Monday 12th November 21:56
Here in Germany it´s quite hard to find People knowing really essential hints about the Turbo´s !
If my EMS 3 is really the faulty Item, where can I purchase an EMS 6, and how much could it be ?
Axel
Turbo TVR said:
Adrian@ said:
Hi Axel
OK....The EM3 has a connector block about 3 inchs away from the unit and they should be a black connector with a white link wire ty-rapped onto the wire loom, you disconnect the EMS3 and plug this in (this is a get you home mode). I have not fited a EMS3 since that car and now only fit EMS6's.
Adrian@
Thank You Adrian for Your help...OK....The EM3 has a connector block about 3 inchs away from the unit and they should be a black connector with a white link wire ty-rapped onto the wire loom, you disconnect the EMS3 and plug this in (this is a get you home mode). I have not fited a EMS3 since that car and now only fit EMS6's.
Adrian@
Edited by Adrian@ on Monday 12th November 21:56
Here in Germany it´s quite hard to find People knowing really essential hints about the Turbo´s !
If my EMS 3 is really the faulty Item, where can I purchase an EMS 6, and how much could it be ?
Axel
Have you got the plug on the wiring loom and able to eliminate that as the problem by plugging this in when the fault occours.
The 6 runs with a few other mods that you need to checked (things that might not be on the car at the moment...parts to stop the engine using un-metered fuel which I had not evloved into that version of the retard system, these would need to be checked at the same time as the new EMS6 was fitted. Post to me direct.
Adrian@
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