Essex Percolator
Discussion
Both my 3000S and 3000M are running very well fantastic.
When i start from cold no problem.
After a run if i stop and then restart within a few minutes no problem.
BUT if i stop after a run and after 15/20 minutes go to start they don't like it because the Fuel in the Carb has percolated/vapourised.
I cannot believe i am the only one with a V6 Essex who has found this.
Cure maybe
1. fit manuel Choke to stop heat transfer to Carb.
2. fit a big Heat Shield between Carb and Inlet Manifold.
I'm sure this could be caused by the modern Fuels. Would a Fuel Additive help, i wonder.
I look forward to hear what you TVR drivers have to say.
Alan
When i start from cold no problem.
After a run if i stop and then restart within a few minutes no problem.
BUT if i stop after a run and after 15/20 minutes go to start they don't like it because the Fuel in the Carb has percolated/vapourised.
I cannot believe i am the only one with a V6 Essex who has found this.
Cure maybe
1. fit manuel Choke to stop heat transfer to Carb.
2. fit a big Heat Shield between Carb and Inlet Manifold.
I'm sure this could be caused by the modern Fuels. Would a Fuel Additive help, i wonder.
I look forward to hear what you TVR drivers have to say.
Alan
I have the same problem with mine, although it is an Essex in a Mk3 Cortina.
Stopping for fuel can be embarrassing if the car is hot. I now pop the bonnet as soon as I stop.
I have wrapped all the fuel pipes with cool wrap stuff that stops the pipes getting hot also fitted a new white W plate from Webcon and yet it still happens.
I do have a manual choke fitted, I may try using the choke next time it happens.
Hopefully there will be some helpful replies.
Stopping for fuel can be embarrassing if the car is hot. I now pop the bonnet as soon as I stop.
I have wrapped all the fuel pipes with cool wrap stuff that stops the pipes getting hot also fitted a new white W plate from Webcon and yet it still happens.
I do have a manual choke fitted, I may try using the choke next time it happens.
Hopefully there will be some helpful replies.
On both the Cars i have fitted "Huco low Pressure Fuel Pumps" in the Boot away from Heat.
Both Cars have a return from carb to Fuel Tank.
Both cars have a Fuel Supply Line that runs along the Outriggers of the Chassis in the cool.
Both Original Mechanical Fuel Pumps have been removed so no Heat transfer possible.
Both Cars have a switch so you can turn the Pump off with Engine running if needed.
Alan
Both Cars have a return from carb to Fuel Tank.
Both cars have a Fuel Supply Line that runs along the Outriggers of the Chassis in the cool.
Both Original Mechanical Fuel Pumps have been removed so no Heat transfer possible.
Both Cars have a switch so you can turn the Pump off with Engine running if needed.
Alan
Allan
My 3000S used to do exactly the same but I just put up with it for a few years and even in the winter it did it. I then had the terminal on my starter to the coil break so I fitted a non ballasted coil and did away with the ballast resistor and wired it accordingly. Since then it hasn't been a problem starting when hot even last summer. I don't know if this was just a coincidence or if the engine heat was effecting the wiring for the coil from the starter. None of my fuel pipes are lagged and I have the mechanical pump and everything else is standard.
Nige
My 3000S used to do exactly the same but I just put up with it for a few years and even in the winter it did it. I then had the terminal on my starter to the coil break so I fitted a non ballasted coil and did away with the ballast resistor and wired it accordingly. Since then it hasn't been a problem starting when hot even last summer. I don't know if this was just a coincidence or if the engine heat was effecting the wiring for the coil from the starter. None of my fuel pipes are lagged and I have the mechanical pump and everything else is standard.
Nige
Hi Nige,
first thanks for the adventures with your 3000S. These TVRs certainly keep our Brains active lol.
On my 3000S when it had the Mechanical Pump and it was hot i used to see the Fuel percolating inside the glass Dome. Since i fitted a Huco Pump (with fused relay) in the boot and a new Kunifer Fuel supply that runs along the outside of the Chassis in the cool she runs much better. Also binned the Piranha Ignition and gone back to Points. Fitted 12 volt Coil and binned Ballast.
Things to do are:
I thought a Manuel Choke might reduce temp transfer to Carb and might replace the Auto Choke.
I will look at Terminals on the Starter and clean them.
I have been thinking of adding a Heat Shield between the Carb and Inlet Manifold.
Also thought about wrapping the Stainless Exhaust Manifolds.
Alan
first thanks for the adventures with your 3000S. These TVRs certainly keep our Brains active lol.
On my 3000S when it had the Mechanical Pump and it was hot i used to see the Fuel percolating inside the glass Dome. Since i fitted a Huco Pump (with fused relay) in the boot and a new Kunifer Fuel supply that runs along the outside of the Chassis in the cool she runs much better. Also binned the Piranha Ignition and gone back to Points. Fitted 12 volt Coil and binned Ballast.
Things to do are:
I thought a Manuel Choke might reduce temp transfer to Carb and might replace the Auto Choke.
I will look at Terminals on the Starter and clean them.
I have been thinking of adding a Heat Shield between the Carb and Inlet Manifold.
Also thought about wrapping the Stainless Exhaust Manifolds.
Alan
This is the main problem I have. So far:
Heat wrapped exhausts
Fitted fuel return
Wrapped fuel feed
Put a heat additive in the water
Fitted an air duct directly to the air filer
However have found it’s not the fuel or vapourization from the float chamber - the chamber is still full. Its the inlet manifold - fuel is hitting the hot manifold, vaporising and expanding. The manifold gets very hot by heat transfer when the car is stopped or on a hot day even when running on low revs.
I was considering
1. One of those plenum units so all air is definitely from outside of the engine bay
2. An additional crank mounted fan
3. A bigger radiator
But it’s s difficult one !
Heat wrapped exhausts
Fitted fuel return
Wrapped fuel feed
Put a heat additive in the water
Fitted an air duct directly to the air filer
However have found it’s not the fuel or vapourization from the float chamber - the chamber is still full. Its the inlet manifold - fuel is hitting the hot manifold, vaporising and expanding. The manifold gets very hot by heat transfer when the car is stopped or on a hot day even when running on low revs.
I was considering
1. One of those plenum units so all air is definitely from outside of the engine bay
2. An additional crank mounted fan
3. A bigger radiator
But it’s s difficult one !
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 15th March 17:51
Hi Alan
I forgot to mention that my 3000S has a manual choke. It could possibly be the water passing through the auto-choke heating the carb. up and vaporising the petrol I suppose. When mine wouldn't start I checked and found the float chamber was full of fuel. I'm just glad that it is starting fine in hot weather and hopefully it will stay that way. I've never had any problems with hot starting on my Scimitar SE5A either and it has the same set up as the 3000S.
Nige
I forgot to mention that my 3000S has a manual choke. It could possibly be the water passing through the auto-choke heating the carb. up and vaporising the petrol I suppose. When mine wouldn't start I checked and found the float chamber was full of fuel. I'm just glad that it is starting fine in hot weather and hopefully it will stay that way. I've never had any problems with hot starting on my Scimitar SE5A either and it has the same set up as the 3000S.
Nige
nwarner said:
Hi Alan
I forgot to mention that my 3000S has a manual choke. It could possibly be the water passing through the auto-choke heating the carb. up and vaporising the petrol I suppose. When mine wouldn't start I checked and found the float chamber was full of fuel. I'm just glad that it is starting fine in hot weather and hopefully it will stay that way. I've never had any problems with hot starting on my Scimitar SE5A either and it has the same set up as the 3000S.
Nige
I have the autochoke and was going to change it to manual for that reason. However the carb bowl actually feels cool when the problem occurs so the theory of heat transfer isn’t borne out. I discussed it on scimitarweb and they didn’t know if changing would help either - I think no.I forgot to mention that my 3000S has a manual choke. It could possibly be the water passing through the auto-choke heating the carb. up and vaporising the petrol I suppose. When mine wouldn't start I checked and found the float chamber was full of fuel. I'm just glad that it is starting fine in hot weather and hopefully it will stay that way. I've never had any problems with hot starting on my Scimitar SE5A either and it has the same set up as the 3000S.
Nige
My fan is in front of the rad so I’m going to put it on the rear to increase cooling and engine bay air flow, and fit the plenum unit. My carb is 40DFAV and the neatest fit plenum base is 38DGAS so I’ll have to adapt it. It’s a shame it’s ali as that’ll heat soak a bit so I may possibly look into mocking up a carbon fibre unit to try it, I think it’ll help as after a few turns the inlet will have cooling air instead of hot air from the engine bay.
I’ve seen several Capris with this problem, and they reset the bonnet to raise it at the hinge edge to give a gap for cooling and it apparently works - so there some mileage in bay temperature being a factor.
I also think it’s partly the luck of the draw - maybe an engine with a few hot spots just puts it over the edge....
I’ve seen several Capris with this problem, and they reset the bonnet to raise it at the hinge edge to give a gap for cooling and it apparently works - so there some mileage in bay temperature being a factor.
I also think it’s partly the luck of the draw - maybe an engine with a few hot spots just puts it over the edge....
On my 3000S i have 2 Kenlow Fans behind the Rad and they continue to run for a few minutes after i switch off.
I have an adjustable Thermostatic Switch for the Fans which i will lower the cut in Temp so they run longer after Engine switch off.
Alan
ps On my 3000M i fitted a Fused Relay to feed the "Edge Starter" direct leaving more power through the Ignition Switch for the Coil Feed. I didn't want all the power going to the Starter and none left for the Coil
I have an adjustable Thermostatic Switch for the Fans which i will lower the cut in Temp so they run longer after Engine switch off.
Alan
ps On my 3000M i fitted a Fused Relay to feed the "Edge Starter" direct leaving more power through the Ignition Switch for the Coil Feed. I didn't want all the power going to the Starter and none left for the Coil
Edited by plasticpig72 on Saturday 16th March 08:58
plasticpig72 said:
On my 3000S i have 2 Kenlow Fans behind the Rad and they continue to run for a few minutes after i switch off.
On my 3000M i fitted a Fused Relay to feed the "Edge Starter" direct leaving more power through the Ignition Switch for the Coil Feed. I didn't want all the power going to the Starter and none left for the Coil
Isn’t that what the starter solenoid is for?On my 3000M i fitted a Fused Relay to feed the "Edge Starter" direct leaving more power through the Ignition Switch for the Coil Feed. I didn't want all the power going to the Starter and none left for the Coil
With an "Edge Starter" from Burtons it has an integrated Solenoid so the original Starter Solenoid is not needed.
I have used just one big threaded Stud on the old Starter Solenoid as a Terminal for the Power Cables.
The White/red Cable that was on the old Starter Solenoid now activates a Fused Relay to supply "Edge Starter"= less power through Ignition Switch.
My idea is to have as less power as possible going through the Ignition Switch.
The Fused Relay is next to the Battery above the"Edge Starter" = minimum cable run and less resistance.
Alan
I have used just one big threaded Stud on the old Starter Solenoid as a Terminal for the Power Cables.
The White/red Cable that was on the old Starter Solenoid now activates a Fused Relay to supply "Edge Starter"= less power through Ignition Switch.
My idea is to have as less power as possible going through the Ignition Switch.
The Fused Relay is next to the Battery above the"Edge Starter" = minimum cable run and less resistance.
Alan
V6 Pushfit said:
My fan is in front of the rad so I’m going to put it on the rear to increase cooling and engine bay air flow, and fit the plenum unit. My carb is 40DFAV and the neatest fit plenum base is 38DGAS so I’ll have to adapt it. It’s a shame it’s ali as that’ll heat soak a bit so I may possibly look into mocking up a carbon fibre unit to try it, I think it’ll help as after a few turns the inlet will have cooling air instead of hot air from the engine bay.
I’ve seen several Capris with this problem, and they reset the bonnet to raise it at the hinge edge to give a gap for cooling and it apparently works - so there some mileage in bay temperature being a factor.
I also think it’s partly the luck of the draw - maybe an engine with a few hot spots just puts it over the edge....
I still have the engine mounted fan on mine. Does the 40DFAV have a W-plate like the one below between the manifold and the carb. like the one below? I’ve seen several Capris with this problem, and they reset the bonnet to raise it at the hinge edge to give a gap for cooling and it apparently works - so there some mileage in bay temperature being a factor.
I also think it’s partly the luck of the draw - maybe an engine with a few hot spots just puts it over the edge....
Nige
Sorry i didn't explain very well.
With an Edge Starter the original Starter Solenoid is not needed. The Edge has an integral Solenoid.
Maybe changing the Ignition Switch can be a good idea to be sure not to have any resistance there.
Alan
With an Edge Starter the original Starter Solenoid is not needed. The Edge has an integral Solenoid.
Maybe changing the Ignition Switch can be a good idea to be sure not to have any resistance there.
Alan
Edited by plasticpig72 on Sunday 17th March 06:36
Edited by plasticpig72 on Sunday 17th March 08:28
plasticpig72 said:
Sorry i didn't explain very well.
With an Edge Starter the original Starter Solenoid is not needed. The Edge has an integral Solenoid.
Maybe changing the Ignition Switch can be a good idea to be sure not to have any resistance there.
Alan
Whatever the position of the solenoid as it’s a relay only there’s still the same draw of current on the battery when the starter cranks?With an Edge Starter the original Starter Solenoid is not needed. The Edge has an integral Solenoid.
Maybe changing the Ignition Switch can be a good idea to be sure not to have any resistance there.
Alan
i think people mix and match things here.
first you need to investigate if you have an immediate (good) spark when you crank the hot-engine....might be that the cranking draws to much power from your electric circuit, hence the ignition is not producing a good spark.
have seen cars, modified by owners, where the igniton was sparking only once the starter-motor was stopped...and those owners wondered why their cars had a bad starting bevaviour.
so the problem may be in the ignition- not in the fuel side. i have never ever expirienced any hotstart problems in terms of fueling with an essex engine (none of my reliant scimitars did that)....but i always kept my focus on a good ingnition system
by the way: have you still fitted points or is the dizzy already converted to a point-less system (like accuspark)?
do you have a good coil fitted, not the 30y old or a cheapish one from ebay?
do you have good quality ignition leads fitted?
first you need to investigate if you have an immediate (good) spark when you crank the hot-engine....might be that the cranking draws to much power from your electric circuit, hence the ignition is not producing a good spark.
have seen cars, modified by owners, where the igniton was sparking only once the starter-motor was stopped...and those owners wondered why their cars had a bad starting bevaviour.
so the problem may be in the ignition- not in the fuel side. i have never ever expirienced any hotstart problems in terms of fueling with an essex engine (none of my reliant scimitars did that)....but i always kept my focus on a good ingnition system
by the way: have you still fitted points or is the dizzy already converted to a point-less system (like accuspark)?
do you have a good coil fitted, not the 30y old or a cheapish one from ebay?
do you have good quality ignition leads fitted?
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