Discussion
I'm new to this forum, but not toTVR's. I bought my Vixen S2 in 1976 enjoyed it for a few years, and laid it up for a few years and did full resto.in 2000. It's run well since until recently when starting, after standing for a few days, only successful after prolonged cranking.
Suspected fuel running back to tank, the pump checked out OK and I finally found the hose from tank to pump completely rotten. The tube is marked " suitable for unleaded". I'm wondering if this is due to the ethenol which is added to the fuel these days. I have ordered a replacement of butyl rubber. Anybody else had any problems?
Suspected fuel running back to tank, the pump checked out OK and I finally found the hose from tank to pump completely rotten. The tube is marked " suitable for unleaded". I'm wondering if this is due to the ethenol which is added to the fuel these days. I have ordered a replacement of butyl rubber. Anybody else had any problems?
Had exactly the same issue with my Vixen on Thursday.
The fuel pipes were about 7 years old, and on start up I noticed a smell of raw fuel, so quickly switched off and investigated.
My car runs a Lotus Twin Cam with twin 40 DCOE`s, so the fuel lines are conveniently hidden under the carbs, but also very close to the distributor !!
The pipe from the fuel pump to the Y piece was completely rotten.
I have recently got a few metres of Gates fuel hose which is supposed to be resistant to modern fuel mixes, so I guess time will tell. One thing for sure, is that I will be thoroughly inspecting the hoses annually from now on !
I'm not sure if ethanol is the culprit, but speaking to a local tanker driver that lives local to me, he reports that every day he goes to a sugar beet factory in East Anglia to collect a tanker full of ethanol which is mixed with the fuel at the point of it going into the tanker for delivery to the retailer.
This got me thinking about how much different our fuel is to how it used to be back when we has lead added. Todays fuel bears little resemblance, and we are all in the hands of the retailer who dictates what they add to the fuel, ( or not in some cases ).
All of my cars use branded fuels, and I rarely use supermarket rubbish because of the problems they cause. Some of my customers are repeatedly having fuelling issues due to the fact they use supermarket fuel because it cheaper..
Will they ever learn ???
The fuel pipes were about 7 years old, and on start up I noticed a smell of raw fuel, so quickly switched off and investigated.
My car runs a Lotus Twin Cam with twin 40 DCOE`s, so the fuel lines are conveniently hidden under the carbs, but also very close to the distributor !!
The pipe from the fuel pump to the Y piece was completely rotten.
I have recently got a few metres of Gates fuel hose which is supposed to be resistant to modern fuel mixes, so I guess time will tell. One thing for sure, is that I will be thoroughly inspecting the hoses annually from now on !
I'm not sure if ethanol is the culprit, but speaking to a local tanker driver that lives local to me, he reports that every day he goes to a sugar beet factory in East Anglia to collect a tanker full of ethanol which is mixed with the fuel at the point of it going into the tanker for delivery to the retailer.
This got me thinking about how much different our fuel is to how it used to be back when we has lead added. Todays fuel bears little resemblance, and we are all in the hands of the retailer who dictates what they add to the fuel, ( or not in some cases ).
All of my cars use branded fuels, and I rarely use supermarket rubbish because of the problems they cause. Some of my customers are repeatedly having fuelling issues due to the fact they use supermarket fuel because it cheaper..
Will they ever learn ???
There's a similar thread on the Wedge forum and plenty of historical ones if you search, but basically the Gates Barricade is being put about as the best to use, although i have used the SAE J30 R9 marked fuel hose without problem and it is suppose to be for the increased ethanol fuels.
One thing for sure is that you gotta make sure you get it from a good source. Personally i think there is some crap out out there on ebay etc that is not up to scratch, a lot being reported as cracking on the outside after a couple of years which would be nothing to do with fuel, would it?
If you've got fuel injection, which most of you in the classic section won't have, don't forget you need the high pressure spec, most of the gates stuff i have seen isn't.
One thing for sure is that you gotta make sure you get it from a good source. Personally i think there is some crap out out there on ebay etc that is not up to scratch, a lot being reported as cracking on the outside after a couple of years which would be nothing to do with fuel, would it?
If you've got fuel injection, which most of you in the classic section won't have, don't forget you need the high pressure spec, most of the gates stuff i have seen isn't.
I'm not sure about the effect ethanol may or may not be have on fuel hose, but I'm pretty sure the quality of new hose is inferior to that purchased many decades ago. I replaced all my Vixen hoses last year which were probably either original or from the 80's and they were still all OK. I don't expect the new ones to last so long and will replace these more frequently.
The new hose is stamped BSAU 108/2 which is correct for modern fuels. However any cheap Chinese import can easily be stamped with this, so it's really about trusting your retailer to be purchasing from a genuine manufacturer.
Fyi, the Worcester Bosch oil (kerosene) boiler that heats my house was brand new 10 years ago and last week the second oil hose failed having perished. So a life of approx. 5 years for each hose. The scary thing with this is that if it ever happened whilst not here, up to 2500 litres of kerosene would be deposited into the ground floor of the house
. Luckily I work from home and smelt it before the drip tray overflowed.
Moto
The new hose is stamped BSAU 108/2 which is correct for modern fuels. However any cheap Chinese import can easily be stamped with this, so it's really about trusting your retailer to be purchasing from a genuine manufacturer.
Fyi, the Worcester Bosch oil (kerosene) boiler that heats my house was brand new 10 years ago and last week the second oil hose failed having perished. So a life of approx. 5 years for each hose. The scary thing with this is that if it ever happened whilst not here, up to 2500 litres of kerosene would be deposited into the ground floor of the house
. Luckily I work from home and smelt it before the drip tray overflowed. Moto
It way well be over the top but there is nothing like being extra safe.
Things like brake lines fuel lines etc treat as service items and about ever 5 years replace fuel hoses have dates on so if you havent got dates on them and you dont know when they where fitted just change they are not expensive and at the same time while you visiting the various places on the car where they are a great chance to check other things as well.
Andrew
Things like brake lines fuel lines etc treat as service items and about ever 5 years replace fuel hoses have dates on so if you havent got dates on them and you dont know when they where fitted just change they are not expensive and at the same time while you visiting the various places on the car where they are a great chance to check other things as well.
Andrew
So the other week I measure the diameter of the pipe on the end of the fuel pump in order to replace the pipe between the pump and the tank. Its half inch, so I buy a length of ethanol resistant hose of that internal diameter.
When I took the car apart I had to cut this hose close to the tank as there was no way it was coming off the tank fitting.
Yesterday I had to cut the tail of the hose from the tank as after 25 years it was well attached. I observed that it appeared well stretched over the tank fitting. It certainly was. The tank fitting was 5/8th inch diameter which TVR in their infinite wisdom had managed to stretch a half inch internal diamter pipe over.
I tasked Mrs Dunc to pop down to the local motor factor today and ask for some ethanol resistant fuel hose with a 5/8 internal diameter and a metal reducer. She came back with some 16 mm heater hose and said "I told them it wasn't suitable and it wasn't marked up with R6 or R9 but they insisted that heater hose was made from the same material". Unbelievable. I wont name names but this is a big chain.
When I took the car apart I had to cut this hose close to the tank as there was no way it was coming off the tank fitting.
Yesterday I had to cut the tail of the hose from the tank as after 25 years it was well attached. I observed that it appeared well stretched over the tank fitting. It certainly was. The tank fitting was 5/8th inch diameter which TVR in their infinite wisdom had managed to stretch a half inch internal diamter pipe over.
I tasked Mrs Dunc to pop down to the local motor factor today and ask for some ethanol resistant fuel hose with a 5/8 internal diameter and a metal reducer. She came back with some 16 mm heater hose and said "I told them it wasn't suitable and it wasn't marked up with R6 or R9 but they insisted that heater hose was made from the same material". Unbelievable. I wont name names but this is a big chain.
Yes - the 5/8" fitting on the fuel tank.
Vixen S2.
I still have what I believe is the original fuel line from the tank to the fuel pump.
Seems like a plastic like thing.
The fuel line has a fitting on both ends - 5/8" for the tank - 1/2" at the fuel pump..
Anyway - I don't trust it after all these years.
So - am attempting to fit adapters for a standardized AN line.
But having a heck of time finding the correct adapters..
Also - didn't bite the bullet and get a Mitutoyo thread gauge and stuck with El Cheapo from you know where (for the moment).
Can't tell if wither the fuel tank fitting or the fuel pump fitting is an 18 or 20 pitch or maybe some British Standard Whitworth.
Any clues as to the correct dimensions/pitch and what have folks used as adapters?
Stretching rubber fuel line over the 5/8" tank fitting is not an option.
Vixen S2.
I still have what I believe is the original fuel line from the tank to the fuel pump.
Seems like a plastic like thing.
The fuel line has a fitting on both ends - 5/8" for the tank - 1/2" at the fuel pump..
Anyway - I don't trust it after all these years.
So - am attempting to fit adapters for a standardized AN line.
But having a heck of time finding the correct adapters..
Also - didn't bite the bullet and get a Mitutoyo thread gauge and stuck with El Cheapo from you know where (for the moment).
Can't tell if wither the fuel tank fitting or the fuel pump fitting is an 18 or 20 pitch or maybe some British Standard Whitworth.
Any clues as to the correct dimensions/pitch and what have folks used as adapters?
Stretching rubber fuel line over the 5/8" tank fitting is not an option.
Rocket 88 said:
Just for your information, Car Builder Solutions do a good range of Ethanol proof fuel hose and although they don't state the manufacturer, it is made by Cohline of Germany.
Is this what you bought, states manufacturer as Cohline but doesn't give its 'R' classification or state working/burst pressures? @ £12 a mertre I would expect it to be R9, injection hose?
Searching the Din number they quote, 73379, it is rated 145psi working pressure.
the problem with the fuel hoses in combnation with modern fuels isnt genereally the fuel itselves...the hose(s) start to perish when the hoses are getting dry inside, because the car isnt into regulary use, hence no fuel flowing through the lines.
try to use PU or copper lines for the long ways and just a short piece of flex on the terminal part.
try to use PU or copper lines for the long ways and just a short piece of flex on the terminal part.
Hi Mike,
The R number isn't stated on the actual fuel lines but after a bit of searching, the Cohline 2240 specification is DIN 73373-3E which is equivalent to R9. This is what it states on the Merlin website:
Cohline hi-spec. rubber fuel hose. Cohline Type 2240 rubber fuel hose features FPM/ECO spec rubber making it 100% fuel proof internally, with Aramid braiding within the wall of the hose. Then ECO outer layer which is abrasion resistant.
Can withstand petrol, E15 rated flexible fuels, Ethanol, Diesel and Biodiesel fuels. Has a working temperature range of -40°C to +125°C.
The Type 2240 hose has a working pressure of 10 Bar with a burst pressure of 50 Bar and is Rated to DIN 73379-3E specification
Incidentally, my 40 year old fuel lines were in perfect condition and I can only put this down to one or all of the following:
1.TVR Engineering recommended that the Turbos should have Redex mixed with the petrol and this is what I have done all it's life. Fortunately, I stocked up with Redex before it was banned and still have a small amount left. When that has gone I will use 2 stroke oil.
2. Since leaded petrol was banned I have used Millers VSP
3. Since the introduction of Ethanol, I have always used Frost Ethomix
With this cocktail and the new Ethanol friendly hose, it should see me out but I will stay vigilant and probably change my under bonnet hoses every few years to be on the safe side.
The R number isn't stated on the actual fuel lines but after a bit of searching, the Cohline 2240 specification is DIN 73373-3E which is equivalent to R9. This is what it states on the Merlin website:
Cohline hi-spec. rubber fuel hose. Cohline Type 2240 rubber fuel hose features FPM/ECO spec rubber making it 100% fuel proof internally, with Aramid braiding within the wall of the hose. Then ECO outer layer which is abrasion resistant.
Can withstand petrol, E15 rated flexible fuels, Ethanol, Diesel and Biodiesel fuels. Has a working temperature range of -40°C to +125°C.
The Type 2240 hose has a working pressure of 10 Bar with a burst pressure of 50 Bar and is Rated to DIN 73379-3E specification
Incidentally, my 40 year old fuel lines were in perfect condition and I can only put this down to one or all of the following:
1.TVR Engineering recommended that the Turbos should have Redex mixed with the petrol and this is what I have done all it's life. Fortunately, I stocked up with Redex before it was banned and still have a small amount left. When that has gone I will use 2 stroke oil.
2. Since leaded petrol was banned I have used Millers VSP
3. Since the introduction of Ethanol, I have always used Frost Ethomix
With this cocktail and the new Ethanol friendly hose, it should see me out but I will stay vigilant and probably change my under bonnet hoses every few years to be on the safe side.
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