Discussion
I'm also wondering about such, so I ordered 3 books with Elan/elite/europa and elan/europa en elan to look and read some stuff :-)
I like the Elan coupe with R26 lights etc, say such elan coupe (FHC) with 175 or so hp
or a Vixen with V8 (ala Tuscan v8)
The Lotus is way lighter and probably better handling, more refined and a ballet shoe? because of the low weight etc,
but the TVR Vixen is probably more car (more upholstery) but still not that heavy, more like military boots :-)
What my questions would be like, if both cars, say in my case a 175hp tuned Elan FHC and a Vixen V8 with around 300hp,
have both a like new driveline and bushings and great brakes for the tuned cars, which one would be more drivers fun on a 'daily' basis,
so say sporty driving on all sort roads.
And which one would be more fun to drive on a track and which one would be faster.
which one would be more 'all' round or GT for just the driver.
What gives more fun on a curvy road with also some long straights, the ultra lightweight fast 4-pot lotus,
or the somewhat heavier torque and hp driven V8 Vixen with a lovely sound even when driving slowly.
so...who knows from 2 equal cars when you look at fresh bushings and springs and brakes etc, so technically compatible. (or how you say that)
just some examples for the picture.
I like the Elan coupe with R26 lights etc, say such elan coupe (FHC) with 175 or so hp
or a Vixen with V8 (ala Tuscan v8)
The Lotus is way lighter and probably better handling, more refined and a ballet shoe? because of the low weight etc,
but the TVR Vixen is probably more car (more upholstery) but still not that heavy, more like military boots :-)
What my questions would be like, if both cars, say in my case a 175hp tuned Elan FHC and a Vixen V8 with around 300hp,
have both a like new driveline and bushings and great brakes for the tuned cars, which one would be more drivers fun on a 'daily' basis,
so say sporty driving on all sort roads.
And which one would be more fun to drive on a track and which one would be faster.
which one would be more 'all' round or GT for just the driver.
What gives more fun on a curvy road with also some long straights, the ultra lightweight fast 4-pot lotus,
or the somewhat heavier torque and hp driven V8 Vixen with a lovely sound even when driving slowly.
so...who knows from 2 equal cars when you look at fresh bushings and springs and brakes etc, so technically compatible. (or how you say that)
just some examples for the picture.
I cant comment on the Lotus as i have never owned or driven one.
However from my experience of Vixens there are good ones great ones and not so good.
How they are screwed together set up etc what engine spec what gear box all go to make each car different.
I was very lucky i bought a car that ticked so many boxes that friends who have Vixens when they drive mine dont want to give it back.
I suspect thats would be the same with the Lotus but maybe less so.
Handling on the Vixen set up right is just perfect the right power to weight ratio to make a perfect car.
As for comfort well how large you are etc will make a difference but once in i am rather happy and have done 4 hour drives without stopping and got out felling fantastic.
I am sure the Lotus would also be great but at the same time have its negatives as well.
Andrew
However from my experience of Vixens there are good ones great ones and not so good.
How they are screwed together set up etc what engine spec what gear box all go to make each car different.
I was very lucky i bought a car that ticked so many boxes that friends who have Vixens when they drive mine dont want to give it back.
I suspect thats would be the same with the Lotus but maybe less so.
Handling on the Vixen set up right is just perfect the right power to weight ratio to make a perfect car.
As for comfort well how large you are etc will make a difference but once in i am rather happy and have done 4 hour drives without stopping and got out felling fantastic.
I am sure the Lotus would also be great but at the same time have its negatives as well.
Andrew
I’ve not driven a Vixen but used to have a mk3 Grantura and have driven Elans.
Elans are softer and roll more, I think they feel like a car of the 1970s but I find it very easy to overdrive them, all the controls are super light and I find it can be a bit tiring. They are better balanced than a Grantura but probably no quicker round a track.
The Grantura feels more like a car of the 1960s with heavier controls, the lack of roll and short wheelbase can make them a bit twitchy, especially in the wet, but I find them easier to drive, you can have a relaxing dawdle or chuck it around, neither of which I find Elans like doing.
I think it comes down to what sort of car you like and that’s always a very personal choice. Of course you can modify or tune either of them to turn them into whatever you want.
Elans are softer and roll more, I think they feel like a car of the 1970s but I find it very easy to overdrive them, all the controls are super light and I find it can be a bit tiring. They are better balanced than a Grantura but probably no quicker round a track.
The Grantura feels more like a car of the 1960s with heavier controls, the lack of roll and short wheelbase can make them a bit twitchy, especially in the wet, but I find them easier to drive, you can have a relaxing dawdle or chuck it around, neither of which I find Elans like doing.
I think it comes down to what sort of car you like and that’s always a very personal choice. Of course you can modify or tune either of them to turn them into whatever you want.
Hi,
I'm lucky (?) enough to own both - although the Elan is a Plus 2 and the Vixen a 2500, so it's probably not the direct comparison you are looking for however the TVR feels much more raw and fun, the engine far more flexible across the rev range and although it's handling is predictable it isn't as glued to the road as the Lotus. Again not a totally fair comparison as the Plus2 has had pretty much everything possible upgraded, and the Twink is the big valve version with plenty of race tweaks done to it too, whilst the Vixen 2500 is totally original. We took them both down to Goodwood revival last year, in the absolute torrential rain, me in the Tivver and my mrs & daughter in the Lotus. The TVR returned after the whole long weekend trip having fixed its dodgy rev counter, and the Lotus returned with only 2 of the entire set of gauges working....you've got to love rain and plastic cars.
Cheers
Joe
I'm lucky (?) enough to own both - although the Elan is a Plus 2 and the Vixen a 2500, so it's probably not the direct comparison you are looking for however the TVR feels much more raw and fun, the engine far more flexible across the rev range and although it's handling is predictable it isn't as glued to the road as the Lotus. Again not a totally fair comparison as the Plus2 has had pretty much everything possible upgraded, and the Twink is the big valve version with plenty of race tweaks done to it too, whilst the Vixen 2500 is totally original. We took them both down to Goodwood revival last year, in the absolute torrential rain, me in the Tivver and my mrs & daughter in the Lotus. The TVR returned after the whole long weekend trip having fixed its dodgy rev counter, and the Lotus returned with only 2 of the entire set of gauges working....you've got to love rain and plastic cars.
Cheers
Joe
Joe, great photo.
The +2 is so much better looking than it's little brother with it's lines much more pleasing to the eye. I've always had a hankering for one - how does it handle compared to the 2 seater Elan?
Interesting comment on there being big the differences between Vixens. I'd never considered that they would vary significantly but I can see that's likely with different levels of maintenance and the various mods and changes carried out over 40+ years. I've only driven my Viixen so can't compare with others but I think it's a well balanced car on road and track. A bit more grip under braking would be nice for the track though.
Moto
The +2 is so much better looking than it's little brother with it's lines much more pleasing to the eye. I've always had a hankering for one - how does it handle compared to the 2 seater Elan?
Interesting comment on there being big the differences between Vixens. I'd never considered that they would vary significantly but I can see that's likely with different levels of maintenance and the various mods and changes carried out over 40+ years. I've only driven my Viixen so can't compare with others but I think it's a well balanced car on road and track. A bit more grip under braking would be nice for the track though.
Moto
Edited by Moto on Monday 5th February 18:09
great reply's, about that plus 2 elan, those have also longer and wider wheelbase, so I guess not so comparable with the normal elan coupe :-)
also like such plus 2, although a bit 'to' pointy at the front and a bbit to long at the rear for looks, but some great examples are out there, that for sure.
Some have the upgraded fresh spyper chassis and zetec engine and there is even a plus 2 with rover V8 :-) but I guess your better of with a good zetec.
I guess the TVR is a bit 'more' car, not as lightweight as say a Elan FHC, but perhaps a bit more 'robust' ?
what car is easier to work on, or to upgrade, is it the TVR?
also like such plus 2, although a bit 'to' pointy at the front and a bbit to long at the rear for looks, but some great examples are out there, that for sure.
Some have the upgraded fresh spyper chassis and zetec engine and there is even a plus 2 with rover V8 :-) but I guess your better of with a good zetec.
I guess the TVR is a bit 'more' car, not as lightweight as say a Elan FHC, but perhaps a bit more 'robust' ?
what car is easier to work on, or to upgrade, is it the TVR?
LOTUS = Lots of Trouble Usually Serious
TVR = Travels Very Rapidly
However, ultimately I would think the Lotus would have been the better car in 'as they came out of the factory' form. Now it would be very much down to individual examples.
There must be some in-era comparison road tests.
TVR = Travels Very Rapidly
However, ultimately I would think the Lotus would have been the better car in 'as they came out of the factory' form. Now it would be very much down to individual examples.
There must be some in-era comparison road tests.
GTRene said:
what car is easier to work on, or to upgrade, is it the TVR?
Not worked on a Vixen but the Elan is a complete pig to work on. There's almost no space around the engine at all, in some places you can't even fit a hand in, which means that some jobs I'd consider to be minor on the Griff (90s) need the engine to come out on the Elan (S4 DHC).Simon
also curious about the Grantura, lovely cars, but standard they come with a bonded body/chassis I believe?
so that is why they talk about the Lotus Elan about hard to work on (some things) hm...would not expect that with a car with almost nothing on it (compared to modern cars ;-))
I've ordered 3 new (old) books about Lotus Elan/Europa/Elite, just began to read in the first one, so its gonna take a while, every night a few pages and my English is not what it used to be, lucky for me their are also a lot of pictures in those books haha.
The Vixen from S2 on (longer wheelbase etc), on paper and for what I know, a lot good things and if working on those is not such problem, is a big plus.
Also a plus is that some are or are close to 50 years old, which in the Netherlands (I believe a new law? starting March 2018) means, no more forced APK, they are free from after that I believe, and no more road tax, but that is already from 40+ years.
The 1968 S2 was built with the longer (90 inch) wheelbase chassis, introduced on the Tuscan V8 but which TVR had now standardized to address complaints about difficulty of ingress.[4] The bonnet was restyled again, with some early cars having a prominent central bulge, and later cars having twin intake ducts at the front corners of the bonnet. The tail lamps were updated from the round Cortina Mark I style to the newer wraparound Mark II style. Also very significant was the fact that the body was bolted (rather than bonded) to the chassis, meaning that it could be easily removed for repairs.[5] The interior was improved, with a leather-skinned steering wheel mounted much lower than before. In a further attempt to improve the quality feel, the body was thicker and panel fit was improved.[4]
Total S2 production: 438
The S3 continued to improve the car with a number of detail changes. The heat extraction vents on the flanks behind the front wheels were decorated with "Aeroflow" grilles borrowed from the c-pillars of the Ford Zodiac Mark IV,[5] and the Ford four-cylinder engine was now in the same tune as in the Ford Capri, producing 92 bhp.[6] Instead of wire wheels, cast alloy wheels were fitted as standard.
Total S3 production: 165
Finally, the S4 cars were an interim model that used the TVR M Series chassis with the Vixen body shell. Apart from the chassis, there were no significant mechanical or cosmetic changes between the S3 and S4. Twenty-two were built in 1972 and one in 1973.[5]
Total S4 production: 23
The 1300 model arrived in late 1971 and was built in an attempt to fill an "economy" market segment for sports cars. It was powered by a 1296 cc Triumph Spitfire engine making 63 bhp, and its lackluster performance limited its sales success. Top speed was barely 90 mph (145 km/h).[7] Only fifteen were built, all in 1972. The final six of these cars were built on a M Series chassis, and the very last 1300 was also built with M Series bodywork, although it never received a "1300M" designation.[6]
Total 1300 production: 15
Not to be confused with the later 2500M, the 2500 (marketed as the Vixen 2500 in the United States) was built between 1971 and 1972, and was designed to take advantage of the fact that the Triumph 2.5L inline-six engine had already been certified for US emissions standards (although only in 105 bhp form.) The final production run of the 2500 (comprising 96 cars) used the M Series chassis with Vixen-style bodywork.
Total 2500 production: 385
source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TVR_Vixen
so that is why they talk about the Lotus Elan about hard to work on (some things) hm...would not expect that with a car with almost nothing on it (compared to modern cars ;-))
I've ordered 3 new (old) books about Lotus Elan/Europa/Elite, just began to read in the first one, so its gonna take a while, every night a few pages and my English is not what it used to be, lucky for me their are also a lot of pictures in those books haha.
The Vixen from S2 on (longer wheelbase etc), on paper and for what I know, a lot good things and if working on those is not such problem, is a big plus.
Also a plus is that some are or are close to 50 years old, which in the Netherlands (I believe a new law? starting March 2018) means, no more forced APK, they are free from after that I believe, and no more road tax, but that is already from 40+ years.
The 1968 S2 was built with the longer (90 inch) wheelbase chassis, introduced on the Tuscan V8 but which TVR had now standardized to address complaints about difficulty of ingress.[4] The bonnet was restyled again, with some early cars having a prominent central bulge, and later cars having twin intake ducts at the front corners of the bonnet. The tail lamps were updated from the round Cortina Mark I style to the newer wraparound Mark II style. Also very significant was the fact that the body was bolted (rather than bonded) to the chassis, meaning that it could be easily removed for repairs.[5] The interior was improved, with a leather-skinned steering wheel mounted much lower than before. In a further attempt to improve the quality feel, the body was thicker and panel fit was improved.[4]
Total S2 production: 438
The S3 continued to improve the car with a number of detail changes. The heat extraction vents on the flanks behind the front wheels were decorated with "Aeroflow" grilles borrowed from the c-pillars of the Ford Zodiac Mark IV,[5] and the Ford four-cylinder engine was now in the same tune as in the Ford Capri, producing 92 bhp.[6] Instead of wire wheels, cast alloy wheels were fitted as standard.
Total S3 production: 165
Finally, the S4 cars were an interim model that used the TVR M Series chassis with the Vixen body shell. Apart from the chassis, there were no significant mechanical or cosmetic changes between the S3 and S4. Twenty-two were built in 1972 and one in 1973.[5]
Total S4 production: 23
The 1300 model arrived in late 1971 and was built in an attempt to fill an "economy" market segment for sports cars. It was powered by a 1296 cc Triumph Spitfire engine making 63 bhp, and its lackluster performance limited its sales success. Top speed was barely 90 mph (145 km/h).[7] Only fifteen were built, all in 1972. The final six of these cars were built on a M Series chassis, and the very last 1300 was also built with M Series bodywork, although it never received a "1300M" designation.[6]
Total 1300 production: 15
Not to be confused with the later 2500M, the 2500 (marketed as the Vixen 2500 in the United States) was built between 1971 and 1972, and was designed to take advantage of the fact that the Triumph 2.5L inline-six engine had already been certified for US emissions standards (although only in 105 bhp form.) The final production run of the 2500 (comprising 96 cars) used the M Series chassis with Vixen-style bodywork.
Total 2500 production: 385
source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TVR_Vixen
Edited by GTRene on Wednesday 7th February 12:23
Andrew Gray said:
The Vixen is so easy to work on unlike the m series where its a pain as i have said in the past of all my cars if i had to just keep one it will have to be the Vixen however once i have the MK3 Grantura restored i will report back just dont expect a quick answer
Andrew
The Vixen is easy to work on because it has half an engine compared to the V6 M you have. Vixen vs 1600M is a better comparison?Andrew
TVRMs said:
Andrew Gray said:
The Vixen is so easy to work on unlike the m series where its a pain as i have said in the past of all my cars if i had to just keep one it will have to be the Vixen however once i have the MK3 Grantura restored i will report back just dont expect a quick answer
Andrew
The Vixen is easy to work on because it has half an engine compared to the V6 M you have. Vixen vs 1600M is a better comparison?Andrew
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