Period FIA race pictures for HTP Griffith 400

[Racingdenmark]

Dear PH

Do any of you have knowledge of FIA period pictures?

I am trying to obtain a new HTP on my Griffith - the ex. Roslund car from the 90ties - but I would like it to be without the big bodywork if possible.

I have used the picture from "grosser preis von Tirol 1965" but do not have a copy of the race programme, since I have beed asked to documentation from the event to support the entry and model of the car.

Kind regards
Ulrik

[Everilda]

You need to talk to Nigel Reuben

at www.nigelreubenracing.com

He has built/restored every FIA griffith running today and is the expert in obtaining HTP.

[Everilda]

There are two FIA Griffs in Denmark.

1. Henrik Lindberg, the ex Arnfried Weiss car and
2. Claus Bjerglund Andersen's car.

[RobMk2a]

I assume you have read this thread on ten tenths

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=145812...

Both Otto Karger and Peter Simpson ran standard bodies in Austria. There is programme for Wien- Aspern Oct 1965 on Racingsportscars but I'm not sure of the status of that meeting.

The museum in Wien may have a copy of the programme you are looking for they have a few copies of the photos of the race.


Also attached is a photo of I think David Plumstead's car which is on the FIA papers. FDU 500C is Peter Simpson's car.

I'll have look to see if I have a copy of the programme.

Regards

Rob

Edited by RobMk2a on Sunday 4th June 22:30

Edited by RobMk2a on Sunday 4th June 22:41

[RobMk2a]

http://historicdb.fia.com/car/tvr-griffith-200

FIA papers 206.

Rob

[Racingdenmark]

There are three Griffs in Denmark - also the ex. Carl Roslund car which I own.

Thanks for the contrubutions - and yes I know of Nigels cars. But I was trying to get FIA papers without the wide body version that originates from a race in the UK - Redex trophy.

But I know that there are other cars with FIA papers with the smaller body. But a HTP are not a public paper. So difficult to see the proof used.

regards
Ulrik

[Everilda]

The only smaller body car with FIA papers that I know of is Mike Whitaker's BFR 400B which is a special case.

There are a number of cars which say they have papers, but I doubt if they are currently valid.

Can you name these other smaller bodied cars with papers?

Edited by Everilda on Tuesday 6th June 09:09

[Racingdenmark]

Yes, the car currently for sale with Mike Abbas Classic Cars has the small body and a new HTP issued in England.

Reg number CRT999C

[Everilda]

That is the ex Willie Green car. I doubt very much if it has current valid papers despite what the advert says.

It has been up for sale for some time.

[Racingdenmark]

I have seen the front page of the HTP. It's brand new issued in the UK

Regards
Ulrik

[Racingdenmark]

And thank you Rob - I appreciate your help.

Regards
Ulrik

[Dollyman1850]

Pretty sure that the Std 400 shape body and the EHM Paul body are both acceptable for Fia racing. The Cars were accepted via the Aspern event rather than the Redex Trophy event in the UK due to their being some dispute about the international status of the Redex trophy event. As such conclusive proof was documented with both styles running at Aspern.

Regarding the papers. The Griff 200 was homologated and I believe technically the 400 was never separately homologated but was classified as a continuation of the 200 for homologation purposes. Where it gets confusing is the 200 papers generally show the later Kamn tail body hence the original 200 beetle back style is not eligible for Papers.

I believe Richard Carter has documented much of this along with Nigel Rueben.

N.

[Racingdenmark]

Thanks Dollyman

The wide body "Redex" version is very well documented. And the Grosser Preis von Tirol event is also recognized by FIA - but when it comes to document the Tirol event it is difficult. I don't know why FIA wants this when it it already recognized. Seems a bit like it should not be too easy to get the HTP document.

All the documentation about the Redex Trophy could be found on Nigel Reuben home page :
http://www.nigelreubenracing.com/paul.php

Regards
Ulrik

Edited by Racingdenmark on Tuesday 6th June 22:05

[RobMk2a]

It would be good if both body types are accepted.

Whilst not totally conclusive Autosport reported 27th August 1965 that 2 TVR Griffiths will be making their international racing debut at Brands Hatch Guards International Trophy meeting having recently been homologated.

30th August 1965 Brands Hatch

106 David Plumstead and 107 Dr Ewan Paul were both entered in the Redex Trophy race. However, I'm not sure if David Plumstead started.

Chris Lawrence ran BFR 400B at 22e Course National De Cote St Ursanne - Les Rangiers which was a FIA event as part of the European Touring Car Championship. However, Chris Lawrence was a late entry not in programme but is shown in the results. Categorie Voitures De Sport over 3000cm. It appears Chris was running in a prototype class with a 250 LM and not in the class with Cobra, E Type and Mustang. I understand Chris Lawrence may have also run at Ollon Villars but again he is not in the programme so at present I can't say if he ran and if so in what class.

I'll post the Aspern programme separately but I don't think it shows Dr Paul being present. He may have entered the Preis von Tirol at Innsbruck? As the original poster asked does anyone have a copy of this programme.

Regards

Rob

[RobMk2a]

Programme from Racingsportscars

Jochen Rindt, Hans Herman and Gerhard Mitter, both the Porsche and Abarth teams so seems quite an important race meeting. Was it held under FIA rules?

Rob

Edited by RobMk2a on Tuesday 6th June 22:06

[Racingdenmark]

Hi Rob

Many thanks for this programme.

But I made a writing error in my previous mail - I meant the Grosser Preis Von Tirol is a FIA rocognized race. The Aspern race is not.

So if anybody have the race programme documentation from the Tirol race it would be fantastic - since the picture already is available on the internet.

Regards
Ulrik

[Racingdenmark]

And Rob - very interesting that BFR400B is actually classified today as a prototype. I know it runs with discs at the rear. So that explains it all

Regards
Ulrik

Edited by Racingdenmark on Tuesday 6th June 22:17

[Racingdenmark]

And Rob - very interesting that BFR400B is actually classified today as a prototype. I know it runs with discs at the rear. So that explains it all

Regards
Ulrik

Edited by Racingdenmark on Tuesday 6th June 22:18

[RobMk2a]

Ulrik,

It may be that BFR ran as a prototype as the FIA papers were only granted 1st August 1965. St Ursanne was on 22nd August and it appears that Chris Lawrence's entry was last minute and he was not in the programme. Maybe his papers were not sorted out in time?

It may be worth contacting the Technical Museum, they have a comprehensive collection of photos of the Preis Von Tirol - (you could virtually make up your own programme). I can't see a photo of Dr Ewan Paul.

https://www.technischesmuseum.at/motorsport-in-oes...

As an aside I find it amusing that the meeting in Austria (which looks quite minor in the photos being held on a runway) is given more weight than say Peter Simpson's entry in the AMOC Martini Trophy Silverstone July 1965 (ok before the FIA papers issued and not a FIA meeting) but see the quality of the entry. (I assume 250 LM's have the same problem with FIA).

http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/Silverstone-...

Good luck.

Rob

Edited by RobMk2a on Tuesday 6th June 22:38

Edited by RobMk2a on Tuesday 6th June 22:40

[Duncan r]

You can run standard body work but then can not wider track longer wheel base and holes in bonnet also you can not run 8" rims