Long shot but.......
Discussion
phillpot said:
you never know!
I'm after a Type 9 to Essex bell housing, I know they're not exactly common and no doubt don't come cheap but 500 smackers for a nice new alluminium one from Burton is stretching the budget just a bit.
I know Ric Wood does a T5 to Essex bell housing that I think was 1/2 that price (but my memory and time since purchase may prove that's not very accurate..).I'm after a Type 9 to Essex bell housing, I know they're not exactly common and no doubt don't come cheap but 500 smackers for a nice new alluminium one from Burton is stretching the budget just a bit.
Maybe worth a call to see if he does a Type 9 to Essex?
Geoff38 said:
Think I have one squirrelled away but never likely to use it , will dig it out tomorrow and post pics
... Thanks Geoff, don't bother post pics just post me the bellhousing 
And thanks everyone else for your comments and suggestions but I believe (may be wrong) that there is a Ford bellhousing that does the job, using a long input shaft gearbox (coz that's what I've got) with no adaptors or machining?
Edited by phillpot on Wednesday 30th November 18:15
Just had a look & the Capri Club do a "kit" to adapt to 5 speed (obviously based on the Capri 4 speed setup).
Not sure if it helps but link here : http://capriclub.co.uk/suspension-handling/Gear-Bo...
Don't know about a direct bolt on....I do seem to remeber a mate who had a 5 speed in his 3.0 Mk2 Capri & I don't remeber it having an adaptor but that said I didn't pay that much attention, it was OEM cast iron though as I remember lifting it! The V4 suggestion sounds favourite for that as the T9 was based on the smaller family of boxes that were no doubt related to the smaller family boxes used on the V4, the V6 alwyas used the bigger (and heavier) boxes.
PS - This is 90% guess work on my behalf rather than fact!
Stew
Not sure if it helps but link here : http://capriclub.co.uk/suspension-handling/Gear-Bo...
Don't know about a direct bolt on....I do seem to remeber a mate who had a 5 speed in his 3.0 Mk2 Capri & I don't remeber it having an adaptor but that said I didn't pay that much attention, it was OEM cast iron though as I remember lifting it! The V4 suggestion sounds favourite for that as the T9 was based on the smaller family of boxes that were no doubt related to the smaller family boxes used on the V4, the V6 alwyas used the bigger (and heavier) boxes.
PS - This is 90% guess work on my behalf rather than fact!
Stew
Thanks for the link Stew, had "found" the Capri Club adaptor, that's on my options list!
All the V6 S Series cars used the type 9, that's where mine has come from, but they are onto the later Cologne V6. my understanding is the V6 variant has a longer input shaft (and different ratio's) than the version used in 4 cylinder Sierra's etc no idea about V4 set up?
Yep, the Cologne V6 had the mildly uprated version of the T9, I think the input shaft has a bigger diameter input shaft with a different number of splines to the 4 cyl ones....as you say the ratios were different (there are lots of flavours of T9 ratios!).
The Essex is a different setup, I think the spigot bearing & input shaft is different as I remeber years ago helping a mate swap an input shaft on a 4 speed box for a 2.8i as the only one he could get was from a 3.0 & it was totally different. We stripped & rebuilt it in his mom's porch....the whole place stunk of hypoid....happy days.
I don't know much about the Essex V4 setup - obviously the block mounting face is the same as the Essex V6 as the block is the same other than having 2 cylinders cropped off....
I'd expect the V4 to use a smaller clutch setup than the V6 - if this is the case you may start getting into flywheels & matching starters...I might be wrong on this though.
It's been done quite a bit though so someone must know with certainty - sourcing the bits is now a big problem though as finding Cologne bits is tough....Essex bits are much tougher to find!
Good luck with it!
Stew
The Essex is a different setup, I think the spigot bearing & input shaft is different as I remeber years ago helping a mate swap an input shaft on a 4 speed box for a 2.8i as the only one he could get was from a 3.0 & it was totally different. We stripped & rebuilt it in his mom's porch....the whole place stunk of hypoid....happy days.
I don't know much about the Essex V4 setup - obviously the block mounting face is the same as the Essex V6 as the block is the same other than having 2 cylinders cropped off....
I'd expect the V4 to use a smaller clutch setup than the V6 - if this is the case you may start getting into flywheels & matching starters...I might be wrong on this though.
It's been done quite a bit though so someone must know with certainty - sourcing the bits is now a big problem though as finding Cologne bits is tough....Essex bits are much tougher to find!
Good luck with it!
Stew
If you don't get sorted I have one that I bought a few years ago but never got round to needing it. It is an alloy one so a good weight saving but it's not cheap I gave £250 for it but would take my money back on it. It could do with a clean up from being sat around but no cracks or welds etc.
Chris
Chris
Got one of those for my S3 but hit a wee snag, three bolt rather than two bolt starter, so got one of them, but solenoid is further round (not on top) so fouls on the chassis 
Next stop... Hi Torque starter
also cast alloy sump from a 24v Cozzie Scorpio to go on one day.
Next stop... Hi Torque starter
also cast alloy sump from a 24v Cozzie Scorpio to go on one day.
Edited by phillpot on Wednesday 30th November 20:04
Gearbox info ...
The 3.0 Essex engines had the 4 speed type B box - in all the Capris and Granadas etc. This box is not related to 5 speeders. It's a HD box which is actually up to handling a lot more power.
The 4 speed 2.0 and 2.3 Cortinas had the Type E or 'rocket' box, which was used in various 'GT' fords (Escort, Cortina) 1600 and 2000, and so did the V4.
The Type 9 5 speed is a reworked type E, with an extension on the back for the 5th speed gears. The type 9 uses the same main case as a type E, although Ford did change some of the bearing sizes etc, so not all the bits are interchangeable, but some are.
So a V4 bellhousing will fit an Essex to a type 9, but don't know about the input shaft length required.
T9 input shafts are NOT different diameters or splines, but ARE of different lengths, the 6 cyl Cologne is longer than the 4 cyl Kent pattern, but that's all (about 20mm from memory). The T9 2.0 and 2.3 boxes are identical apart from the input shaft and bellh. The T9 2.8 boxes had different gear ratios, and longer needle rollers, and later on got a redesigned front layshaft setup- the best choice of all if you can find one. (NB. may need to machine bellhousing for these, as they have an extra piece on the front of gbox.)
You CAN turn a 4 cyl into a 6 cyl simply by changing the input shaft and bellhousing - using a 2.3 input shaft will fit and line up perfectly - I HAVE DONE THIS ! You can even get a spacer plate to make the 6 cyl box to fit 4 cyl engines (it simply moves the bellhousing out a little.)
If you rebuild the box, you should fit the longer needle rollers anyway, as it's peanuts extra, and makes the box last longer, as they do tend to chew up the front of the layshaft with more powerful engines. Rollers are about 40% longer ...
The type B (and others) used a 1/2 inch (12.7mm) spigot - the 5 speed type 9 has a 15mm - the Colognes had 21x12.7 and a 21x15mm spigot bearings - this may be same as Essex, not sure....
The 3.0 Essex engines had the 4 speed type B box - in all the Capris and Granadas etc. This box is not related to 5 speeders. It's a HD box which is actually up to handling a lot more power.
The 4 speed 2.0 and 2.3 Cortinas had the Type E or 'rocket' box, which was used in various 'GT' fords (Escort, Cortina) 1600 and 2000, and so did the V4.
The Type 9 5 speed is a reworked type E, with an extension on the back for the 5th speed gears. The type 9 uses the same main case as a type E, although Ford did change some of the bearing sizes etc, so not all the bits are interchangeable, but some are.
So a V4 bellhousing will fit an Essex to a type 9, but don't know about the input shaft length required.
T9 input shafts are NOT different diameters or splines, but ARE of different lengths, the 6 cyl Cologne is longer than the 4 cyl Kent pattern, but that's all (about 20mm from memory). The T9 2.0 and 2.3 boxes are identical apart from the input shaft and bellh. The T9 2.8 boxes had different gear ratios, and longer needle rollers, and later on got a redesigned front layshaft setup- the best choice of all if you can find one. (NB. may need to machine bellhousing for these, as they have an extra piece on the front of gbox.)
You CAN turn a 4 cyl into a 6 cyl simply by changing the input shaft and bellhousing - using a 2.3 input shaft will fit and line up perfectly - I HAVE DONE THIS ! You can even get a spacer plate to make the 6 cyl box to fit 4 cyl engines (it simply moves the bellhousing out a little.)
If you rebuild the box, you should fit the longer needle rollers anyway, as it's peanuts extra, and makes the box last longer, as they do tend to chew up the front of the layshaft with more powerful engines. Rollers are about 40% longer ...
The type B (and others) used a 1/2 inch (12.7mm) spigot - the 5 speed type 9 has a 15mm - the Colognes had 21x12.7 and a 21x15mm spigot bearings - this may be same as Essex, not sure....
Edited by RCK974X on Wednesday 30th November 20:16
phillpot said:
Appreciate the offer Chris, I'll see what Geoff comes up with but do like the idea of alloy. I'm not getting any younger and those gearbox's sure ain't getting any lighter 
I'll get back to you with a definite yes or no in a couple of days if that's okay?
No worries mate its not going anywhere.I'll get back to you with a definite yes or no in a couple of days if that's okay?
Chris
phillpot said:
All useful info, thanks.
Wasn't the "Rocket" gearbox a competition special Type E with higher first gear and closer ratios?
Yes, probably - perhaps I should have said it that way around !Wasn't the "Rocket" gearbox a competition special Type E with higher first gear and closer ratios?
I think the term 'rocket' is a bit misused today to include 'ordinary' ones, and I think it's a bit muddled what was what when you get into the various GT and RS models, but I believe they are all based on the type E.
If you find a photo of an E box (long tail piece and selector with set of rotary lock tabs around gearstick) - you can see the main case is actually the same casting (externally) as the type 9. I'm pretty sure you can't interchange the E and T9 gearsets though.
Edited by RCK974X on Wednesday 30th November 21:40
Thats it - type B, all iron except the top inspection cover. Good box, had on in my first early 2.8i Capri. HEAVY though.
I was under the impression that the input shafts were different splines but it is a distant memory so it must be something else I'm thinking of....
I was pretty sure the t9 was an evolution of the smaller family of boxes which has been confirmed....type E as it happens.
On a slightly sideways note it's quite a surprise how the values of these bits has risen in the last 5years. Scarcity drives it, we never knew how good we had it back then!
Stew.
I was under the impression that the input shafts were different splines but it is a distant memory so it must be something else I'm thinking of....
I was pretty sure the t9 was an evolution of the smaller family of boxes which has been confirmed....type E as it happens.
On a slightly sideways note it's quite a surprise how the values of these bits has risen in the last 5years. Scarcity drives it, we never knew how good we had it back then!
Stew.
StewB_v6 said:
Thats it - type B, all iron except the top inspection cover. Good box, had on in my first early 2.8i Capri. HEAVY though.
I was under the impression that the input shafts were different splines but it is a distant memory so it must be something else I'm thinking of....
I was pretty sure the t9 was an evolution of the smaller family of boxes which has been confirmed....type E as it happens.
On a slightly sideways note it's quite a surprise how the values of these bits has risen in the last 5years. Scarcity drives it, we never knew how good we had it back then! Stew.
I think that the 3.0 and 2.8 engines use the same clutch plate. I remember that ALL of the boxes at the time used the same spline, but the spigots were different ? (I could be wrong on that)I was under the impression that the input shafts were different splines but it is a distant memory so it must be something else I'm thinking of....
I was pretty sure the t9 was an evolution of the smaller family of boxes which has been confirmed....type E as it happens.
On a slightly sideways note it's quite a surprise how the values of these bits has risen in the last 5years. Scarcity drives it, we never knew how good we had it back then! Stew.
I read somewhere that [Euro] Ford enthusiasts reckon the type B box was the best and slickest shift ever made, with the type E (and 5 speed) second ....but yes, it's a lot heavier than the 5 speed - and stronger too. Wedges had the type B box with the 2.8 engine (most of them) and then went to 5 speed.
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