Vixen Rear Shocks
Discussion
Hello. New to the forum and starting to get my Mk 2 Vixen back on the road.
I have always run with 2 "standard" springs and 4 Spax shocks on the back. I have the Shock on their lowest setting and have always thought the ride was hard but about right (Some passengers have been less understanding). When I tried turning the shocks up a few clicks the ride was unusable on our glorious English roads.
I now want to run 4 springs at the back to even out the loads. I have read all the posts on spring rates and was thinking of running pairs of 80 or 90 lb springs to keep the rate close to standard. I am however interested to see that many people are suggesting harder settings and claim they run fine on the road.
I am therefore wondering if my "hard" ride is as a result of the shock absorbers. Spax and others advertise the same unit for Vixen, 1600M, 3000M etc replacement shock which I can understand as they are adjustable. However I have never been asked (or considered) whether it is a 2 or 4 shock setup. On these forums there is plenty of comment about halving the spring rate for a 4 spring setup but no mention of reducing the damping rates for a 4 shock system.
So my question is, for a 4 shock setup do you guys get lower damping rate shock absorbers and if so should the suppliers be able to sugest a setting (or what do I ask for)
Thanks
I have always run with 2 "standard" springs and 4 Spax shocks on the back. I have the Shock on their lowest setting and have always thought the ride was hard but about right (Some passengers have been less understanding). When I tried turning the shocks up a few clicks the ride was unusable on our glorious English roads.
I now want to run 4 springs at the back to even out the loads. I have read all the posts on spring rates and was thinking of running pairs of 80 or 90 lb springs to keep the rate close to standard. I am however interested to see that many people are suggesting harder settings and claim they run fine on the road.
I am therefore wondering if my "hard" ride is as a result of the shock absorbers. Spax and others advertise the same unit for Vixen, 1600M, 3000M etc replacement shock which I can understand as they are adjustable. However I have never been asked (or considered) whether it is a 2 or 4 shock setup. On these forums there is plenty of comment about halving the spring rate for a 4 spring setup but no mention of reducing the damping rates for a 4 shock system.
So my question is, for a 4 shock setup do you guys get lower damping rate shock absorbers and if so should the suppliers be able to sugest a setting (or what do I ask for)
Thanks
Welcome to the forum.
I fitted new shocks and springs to my S3 2 years ago. 4 x 80lb springs & 4 x Avo adjustable shocks at the rear. I can't tell you about damper rates but they were supplied by Adrian Venn so worth talking to him for spec's. I have them set to almost their softest setting (2 clicks) which rides well on Herefordshire's bumpy tarmac. Still firm though and the other half finds it a bit tiresome in the passenger seat.
Moto
I fitted new shocks and springs to my S3 2 years ago. 4 x 80lb springs & 4 x Avo adjustable shocks at the rear. I can't tell you about damper rates but they were supplied by Adrian Venn so worth talking to him for spec's. I have them set to almost their softest setting (2 clicks) which rides well on Herefordshire's bumpy tarmac. Still firm though and the other half finds it a bit tiresome in the passenger seat.
Moto
I run one shock and spring on the Vixen and its been great it was set up that way when i got her and although i believe wrong its certainly been fantastic on both handling and ride i would have to check the file for spring rate they where supplied by David Gerald for the previous owner.
I run different on the Tuscan of course and have that set as the V8 Spec set up and once again spot on for that car
Andrew
I run different on the Tuscan of course and have that set as the V8 Spec set up and once again spot on for that car
Andrew
I had new shocks and springs all-around from Adrian.
From memory springs are 200lbs on the front and 90lbs on the rear. Avo shocks set to 7-clicks (1/2 way) and ride is amazing on smooth roads, but crashy on poorly maintained roads, this is definitely the road's fault, not the equipment. New tyres made a MASSIVE difference as did changing tyre pressures to 26psi all-round.
All the spring platforms are about 5cm up from the lowest point on the shock which gives good ride height for speed bumps.
Springs, I think, have taken at least a year to settle. It is a light-weight car after all.
If the car is purely for road use, you may want to go a little softer on the springs. If you're always going to drive it like you stole it my set-up is probably about right - low body roll, good feedback, but compromised on rubbish roads (where you wouldn't want to go too fast anyway!) but it is a sports car so you should expect a firm ride. The missus says its actually more comfortable then her car on long journeys. I think this might be because the rebound is well controlled.
Worth a full geo set-up with someone like Centre of Gravity too - although I still need to do this I keep here the Chimp boys saying how much better it makes the ride.
From memory springs are 200lbs on the front and 90lbs on the rear. Avo shocks set to 7-clicks (1/2 way) and ride is amazing on smooth roads, but crashy on poorly maintained roads, this is definitely the road's fault, not the equipment. New tyres made a MASSIVE difference as did changing tyre pressures to 26psi all-round.
All the spring platforms are about 5cm up from the lowest point on the shock which gives good ride height for speed bumps.
Springs, I think, have taken at least a year to settle. It is a light-weight car after all.
If the car is purely for road use, you may want to go a little softer on the springs. If you're always going to drive it like you stole it my set-up is probably about right - low body roll, good feedback, but compromised on rubbish roads (where you wouldn't want to go too fast anyway!) but it is a sports car so you should expect a firm ride. The missus says its actually more comfortable then her car on long journeys. I think this might be because the rebound is well controlled.
Worth a full geo set-up with someone like Centre of Gravity too - although I still need to do this I keep here the Chimp boys saying how much better it makes the ride.
Note to self.
Don't try to get shocks to do the job of the springs, and don't try to get springs to do the job of anti-roll bars.
and almost forgot, don't expect a shock that has the same valving for cars that vary in weight by 20% and have very similar spring rates to perform other than in a very compromised manner..
Don't try to get shocks to do the job of the springs, and don't try to get springs to do the job of anti-roll bars.
and almost forgot, don't expect a shock that has the same valving for cars that vary in weight by 20% and have very similar spring rates to perform other than in a very compromised manner..
Gilbert56 said:
Thanks for the reply Moto. About 2 click was about all I could go.
Whan I get the car on the road again I might give it a try with just 2 shocks on the back to see what it feels like.
Do you mean 2 shocks behind the upright with 2 shocks & springs infront?Whan I get the car on the road again I might give it a try with just 2 shocks on the back to see what it feels like.
If so I don't think it's that simple. As I understand it you'll need to run 2 x ~180lb springs with 2 shocks or either 4 x ~90lb springs with 4 shocks or 2 x ~180lb springs with 4 shocks. So you'll be buying 2 lots of springs at different ratings if you wish to switch between a 2 & 4 spring setup.
The norm spring rating for most Vixens running 4 springs seems to be 90lb. I went a touch softer at 80lb and for me that works well. But I don't like rock hard suspension unless I'm on a super smooth track, which unfortunately isn't very often.
The design of the suspension seems to suggest there should be less stresses created when running 4 springs rather than just 2 either in front of or behind the upright. If you do go the 2 route, I seem to recall Steve saying it's better to mount them in front of the upright rather than behind - can't remember why though.
This is only from what I remember when doing mine, so definitely take advice from one of the specialists.
Moto
Hi Moto.
Currently I still have 2 springs(140/160 lb ish) and 4 shocks so I can easily take off two of the shocks to see what it feels like. (The Mk 1 only has one shock as do the M series)
The springs are mounted behind the upright since you cannot put the "standard" springs/shocks in front as the spring platform fouls the wishbone. People who do must be running smaller and/or shorter springs which would make sense as 2.25 in springs are now more common (& cheaper) and a shorter spring gives more scope for height adjustment.
As per my initial post I'm happy with spring rates and seem to agree with you there. I was wondering if the shock spec should be different for a 4 shock setup to a 2 shock. I was thinking of going GAZ shocks and springs as they have good reviews and are a good price.
Thanks
Currently I still have 2 springs(140/160 lb ish) and 4 shocks so I can easily take off two of the shocks to see what it feels like. (The Mk 1 only has one shock as do the M series)
The springs are mounted behind the upright since you cannot put the "standard" springs/shocks in front as the spring platform fouls the wishbone. People who do must be running smaller and/or shorter springs which would make sense as 2.25 in springs are now more common (& cheaper) and a shorter spring gives more scope for height adjustment.
As per my initial post I'm happy with spring rates and seem to agree with you there. I was wondering if the shock spec should be different for a 4 shock setup to a 2 shock. I was thinking of going GAZ shocks and springs as they have good reviews and are a good price.
Thanks
Gilbert56 said:
Hi Moto.
Currently I still have 2 springs(140/160 lb ish) and 4 shocks so I can easily take off two of the shocks to see what it feels like. (The Mk 1 only has one shock as do the M series)
The springs are mounted behind the upright since you cannot put the "standard" springs/shocks in front as the spring platform fouls the wishbone. People who do must be running smaller and/or shorter springs which would make sense as 2.25 in springs are now more common (& cheaper) and a shorter spring gives more scope for height adjustment.
As per my initial post I'm happy with spring rates and seem to agree with you there. I was wondering if the shock spec should be different for a 4 shock setup to a 2 shock. I was thinking of going GAZ shocks and springs as they have good reviews and are a good price.
Thanks
My S1 runs 4 spings one the rear and they are fine. they don't foulCurrently I still have 2 springs(140/160 lb ish) and 4 shocks so I can easily take off two of the shocks to see what it feels like. (The Mk 1 only has one shock as do the M series)
The springs are mounted behind the upright since you cannot put the "standard" springs/shocks in front as the spring platform fouls the wishbone. People who do must be running smaller and/or shorter springs which would make sense as 2.25 in springs are now more common (& cheaper) and a shorter spring gives more scope for height adjustment.
As per my initial post I'm happy with spring rates and seem to agree with you there. I was wondering if the shock spec should be different for a 4 shock setup to a 2 shock. I was thinking of going GAZ shocks and springs as they have good reviews and are a good price.
Thanks
I run the quad spring (80lb) - quad shock set up on the rear of my S2 and it works well. I think the principle of keeping the front end firm and tail soft gives a good road set up so all my rear adjustable AVOs are set on their softest setting. I don't want the rear end to take off when I'm coming out of a tight bend and suddenly run over an acorn!
There are plus's and minuses of single versus twin set ups. A twin set up with the same rate as a single set up still feels stiffer…Something to do with the coefficients of friction / gravity and other things much too complex for me to worry about.
The vixen was very capable in std trim and having modern adjustable shocks which everyone softens off to get the car feeling compliant probably shows just how good the std set up was.
On the rears the best handling set up will always be a spring / damper unit on the front of the upright
The downside is unequal loading on the pivot rod and bending.
The twin set up spreads the load evenly. Because it always feels stiffer you tend to find that taking a tad off the recommended poundage evens things out
Don't think that Griffs have always ran twin set ups either..back in the day some of the fastest griffs ran a single set up at the front of the upright with an empty shock doing nothing at the rear but just being used as a droop limiter.
When chopping and changing it is worth considering spring length and max travel. the longer the travel you can achieve is always best but there can be problems with the binding of the U/J's on full compression or more likely droop travel
If you really want to start getting anal about things then you can start to consider twin rate set ups with a short soft spring and a shorter main one..Setting a car up this way can tune the handling and give relative comfort and a better turn in transition…Again far beyond my limited brain.
I suspect most will not feel any discernible difference but for the road it does highlight that an old car softly sprung with old fashioned mechanical grip is still a good thing..
Don't forget that everyone now standardises the use of poly bushes, lower profile tyres and solid rack mounts…All give the impression of the car feeling a lot more crash on our increasingly poor roads.
N.
The vixen was very capable in std trim and having modern adjustable shocks which everyone softens off to get the car feeling compliant probably shows just how good the std set up was.
On the rears the best handling set up will always be a spring / damper unit on the front of the upright
The downside is unequal loading on the pivot rod and bending.
The twin set up spreads the load evenly. Because it always feels stiffer you tend to find that taking a tad off the recommended poundage evens things out
Don't think that Griffs have always ran twin set ups either..back in the day some of the fastest griffs ran a single set up at the front of the upright with an empty shock doing nothing at the rear but just being used as a droop limiter.
When chopping and changing it is worth considering spring length and max travel. the longer the travel you can achieve is always best but there can be problems with the binding of the U/J's on full compression or more likely droop travel
If you really want to start getting anal about things then you can start to consider twin rate set ups with a short soft spring and a shorter main one..Setting a car up this way can tune the handling and give relative comfort and a better turn in transition…Again far beyond my limited brain.
I suspect most will not feel any discernible difference but for the road it does highlight that an old car softly sprung with old fashioned mechanical grip is still a good thing..
Don't forget that everyone now standardises the use of poly bushes, lower profile tyres and solid rack mounts…All give the impression of the car feeling a lot more crash on our increasingly poor roads.
N.
Good Interesting discussion but mainly just going over old ground on spring rates. Correct me if I am wrong ( I'm sure you all would anyway ) but isn't spring rate mainly about lean, dive, grip etc on cornering and braking with the front to back ration being as important as the actual poundage. Shock absorbers are then to providing the damping to stop the springs bouncing for ever. Too much damping and the springs will hardly move, too little and they will take longer to come to rest. Therefore the harshness on bumpy roads, potholes etc is largely down to the damper.
Thus two 80lb springs (with 2 shocks) will have twice as much damping as an 160lb spring with one damper (notwithstanding the previous comment on the additional friction losses of two springs). and thus be considerably less comfortable. If it is over damped the spring won't get the chance to reach its full travel potential.
Hence my initiial query, are there different shocks for single of double setups? or if people only have one shock is the adjuster turned right up to the hard setting.
Anyway thanks for the contributions, I'm getting distracted by brake problems at the moment so may start another thread.
) but isn't spring rate mainly about lean, dive, grip etc on cornering and braking with the front to back ration being as important as the actual poundage. Shock absorbers are then to providing the damping to stop the springs bouncing for ever. Too much damping and the springs will hardly move, too little and they will take longer to come to rest. Therefore the harshness on bumpy roads, potholes etc is largely down to the damper.Thus two 80lb springs (with 2 shocks) will have twice as much damping as an 160lb spring with one damper (notwithstanding the previous comment on the additional friction losses of two springs). and thus be considerably less comfortable. If it is over damped the spring won't get the chance to reach its full travel potential.
Hence my initiial query, are there different shocks for single of double setups? or if people only have one shock is the adjuster turned right up to the hard setting.
Anyway thanks for the contributions, I'm getting distracted by brake problems at the moment so may start another thread.
Gilbert56, your Vixen looks like Steve Beddards old car? I only ask as his was a similar burgandy colour (a Jag colour I think) S2 and was a lovely original car. He sold it some 7 years ago at Brightwells auction after which it sat in a London showroom for sale for quite a while before vanishing.
Moto
Moto
Gassing Station | TVR Classics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff