Discussion
Brian, I know what you mean. However compare what people are asking for other machinery and it's not surprising. Totally mad in my opinion and largely driven by speculation for making profit. But, markets often crash leaving someone with a BIG whole in their wallet. Would you risk it ??
Also makes the yellow Vixen next to it look a bargain. Very similar car, probably as rare and probably better to drive or race. Just not the racing history (what's that really worth). Maybe in a couple of years it could also have the Grantura's price tag !!!
Moto
Also makes the yellow Vixen next to it look a bargain. Very similar car, probably as rare and probably better to drive or race. Just not the racing history (what's that really worth). Maybe in a couple of years it could also have the Grantura's price tag !!!
Moto
alphaone said:
There seems to be a few over priced classic TVRs doing the round at the moment, my guess is they will still be for sale next year.
I Rather Agree John that price is pure speculation however a professionally rebuilt race car should not be compared to a standard road car they are two very different things have a good day tomorrow.
Andrew
Edited by Andrew Gray on Saturday 14th November 17:28
I guess the asking price is based on the preparation, race history and asking prices for similar non TVR's with race history. Whether it is justified I guess is up to the purchaser to decide.
However, I wonder why it has been restored with blue paint, the attached photo from 1967 Nurburgring and photos during Mary Wheeler's ownership (In Filby's book) show it as being Red. Was it blue in theBarMoCo days.
Rob
Source Racingsportscars copyright marked on photo.
Edited by RobMk2a on Saturday 14th November 18:06
Technically this car shouldn't have FIA papers however there is a long and convoluted story to it and this car despite not being technically available in 1965 as an 1800S was given FIA papers and paved the way for other cars to have international competition papers…Whether this is correct or not is a little academic now but its money is in the fact that you can enter some very prestigious international events with it…
I dare say that there are also some very expensive bits in it including an all steel racing engine and box which aint cheap.
N.
I dare say that there are also some very expensive bits in it including an all steel racing engine and box which aint cheap.
N.
Andrew Gray said:
I Rather Agree John that price is pure speculation however a professionally rebuilt race car should not be compared to a standard road car they are two very different things
have a good day tomorrow.
Andrew
Cheers, looking forward to the day out.have a good day tomorrow.
Andrew
Edited by Andrew Gray on Saturday 14th November 17:28
RobMk2a said:
I guess the asking price is based on the preparation, race history and asking prices for similar non TVR's with race history. Whether it is justified I guess is up to the purchaser to decide.
However, I wonder why it has been restored with blue paint, the attached photo from 1967 Nurburgring and photos during Mary Wheeler's ownership (In Filby's book) show it as being Red. Was it blue in theBarMoCo days.
Rob
Source Racingsportscars copyright marked on photo.
Edited by RobMk2a on Saturday 14th November 18:06
Andrew Gray said:
alphaone said:
however a professionally rebuilt race car should not be compared to a standard road car they are two very different things
'Enthusiast' rebuilt cars can be much better or much poorer restorations that a 'professionally' restored car. Edited by Andrew Gray on Saturday 14th November 17:28
Race cars may have race history interest where as a road car may have previous owner interest.
But £16k for a restored road Vixen versus £80k for a restored race Grantura with history. I think makes an interesting comparison, wherever one sits in the market.
With the comments above in mind, where does that leave the Ex Paddy Gaston / Bankhurst car, APH223B which I now own, which did compete n period and has been successfully raced since?
I don't intend to sell it, but given it has a "proper" history and is still a competitive car it makes for an interesting valuation.
some more info
Built in 1964, APH 223B is a well known original ex-works TVR, raced in period by Paddy Gaston. The car comes with a file of history including bills and documentation from the car's early history, period photographs and copies of entries in well known period race books. The car has more recently been prepared to FIA Period F (Class GTS11) and campaigned over the past 7 years by Roy Stephenson and Ian Bankhurst. They have enjoyed huge success including outright wins at the Goodwood Revival 2009, and several class wins, including 3rd place overall at the Spa 6 hours. Full HTP and HVIF papers, and other supporting documentation are available. You are looking at what must be the most competitive Grantura race car around, one which offers class-winning entry into the Le Mans Classic, Spa 6 hrs, HSCC, Masters, GT and Sports Car Cup, Appendix K, Equipe GTS and many other events.
I don't intend to sell it, but given it has a "proper" history and is still a competitive car it makes for an interesting valuation.
some more info
Built in 1964, APH 223B is a well known original ex-works TVR, raced in period by Paddy Gaston. The car comes with a file of history including bills and documentation from the car's early history, period photographs and copies of entries in well known period race books. The car has more recently been prepared to FIA Period F (Class GTS11) and campaigned over the past 7 years by Roy Stephenson and Ian Bankhurst. They have enjoyed huge success including outright wins at the Goodwood Revival 2009, and several class wins, including 3rd place overall at the Spa 6 hours. Full HTP and HVIF papers, and other supporting documentation are available. You are looking at what must be the most competitive Grantura race car around, one which offers class-winning entry into the Le Mans Classic, Spa 6 hrs, HSCC, Masters, GT and Sports Car Cup, Appendix K, Equipe GTS and many other events.
RobMk2a said:
Can you please share the early race history.
Thanks
Rob
Not much I know to be honest Rob apart from raced by Paddy Gaston in the 60's. theres pictures of it at the Nurburgring in 1964 which I've posted previously, and also pics of it racing at Brands in a similar period. Thanks
Rob
It was then latterly very successful in the hands of Roy Stephenson and Ian Bankhurst doing well at the Spa 6 hours ( third overall I believe one year) and winning the Fordwater Trophy with ian at the wheel at goodwood.
https://youtu.be/jeJhfhEOWKM
The boys is still bonded to the chassis and it holds its own against some of the much newer built Granturas currently racing, however we do have to wring it to get it on pace against the more recently built cars.
overall though, its the most fun Ive had on 4 wheels.
me first time out, still learning it at Spa https://youtu.be/23kax5cWU-4
Edited by Obiwonkeyblokey on Wednesday 25th November 20:54
Owen,
We should probably start another thread but I think I may have a bit more history including Silverstone Relay Oulton Park Goodwood TT and Spa. However, I'm not entirely clear on the identity of Paddy Gaston's car at various races and whether it was APH 223B or X PG 1. I'll do a bit more digging to see if I can identify the correct races.
Spa
Copyright Stanford University Revs Gallery [url]
Silverstone
|http://thumbsnap.com/9U89gSgD[/url]
We should probably start another thread but I think I may have a bit more history including Silverstone Relay Oulton Park Goodwood TT and Spa. However, I'm not entirely clear on the identity of Paddy Gaston's car at various races and whether it was APH 223B or X PG 1. I'll do a bit more digging to see if I can identify the correct races.
Spa
Copyright Stanford University Revs Gallery [url]
Silverstone
|http://thumbsnap.com/9U89gSgD[/url]
|http://thumbsnap.com/uOiiCkns[/url]RobMk2a said:
X PG 1 factory lightweight raced by John Wingfield and owned by James Boothby. I understand it was previously owned by Paddy Gaston.
Rob
Edited by RobMk2a on Wednesday 25th November 22:29
Gerry became business partner with john Wingfield I think and they were very close friends.
John was killed in a F5000 race at Thruxton in 76 I think.
I dare say Gregor will pop in to fill in the gaps.
N.
Edited by Dollyman1850 on Wednesday 25th November 23:25
Dollyman1850 said:
Technically this car shouldn't have FIA papers however there is a long and convoluted story to it and this car despite not being technically available in 1965 as an 1800S was given FIA papers and paved the way for other cars to have international competition papers…Whether this is correct or not is a little academic now but its money is in the fact that you can enter some very prestigious international events with it…
I dare say that there are also some very expensive bits in it including an all steel racing engine and box which aint cheap.
N.
Even I think they are flying a kite here. Looks like all of its history is post 66 anyway, unlike Owen's car.I dare say that there are also some very expensive bits in it including an all steel racing engine and box which aint cheap.
N.
I would like to have a good look at it and the papers. AFAIK only Mk3s were homologated and this seems to be the first MK4, which were not. Seems to be all sorts of issues with all sorts of cars with the new 'FIA money grab' papers at the moment. One apparent new rule is that you have to get the car inspected and re-papered when there is a change of ownership - so you pay Cheshire Classic Cars their bag of gold only to find you can't then get new papers and can't do any events.......
Fiscracer said:
Dollyman1850 said:
Technically this car shouldn't have FIA papers however there is a long and convoluted story to it and this car despite not being technically available in 1965 as an 1800S was given FIA papers and paved the way for other cars to have international competition papers…Whether this is correct or not is a little academic now but its money is in the fact that you can enter some very prestigious international events with it…
I dare say that there are also some very expensive bits in it including an all steel racing engine and box which aint cheap.
N.
Even I think they are flying a kite here. Looks like all of its history is post 66 anyway, unlike Owen's car.I dare say that there are also some very expensive bits in it including an all steel racing engine and box which aint cheap.
N.
I would like to have a good look at it and the papers. AFAIK only Mk3s were homologated and this seems to be the first MK4, which were not. Seems to be all sorts of issues with all sorts of cars with the new 'FIA money grab' papers at the moment. One apparent new rule is that you have to get the car inspected and re-papered when there is a change of ownership - so you pay Cheshire Classic Cars their bag of gold only to find you can't then get new papers and can't do any events.......
If everyone had my point of view I am sure the FIA would have to quickly re-think its strategy.
N.
Edited by Dollyman1850 on Thursday 26th November 05:56
RobMk2a said:
Owen,
We should probably start another thread but I think I may have a bit more history including Silverstone Relay Oulton Park Goodwood TT and Spa. However, I'm not entirely clear on the identity of Paddy Gaston's car at various races and whether it was APH 223B or X PG 1. I'll do a bit more digging to see if I can identify the correct races.
Spa
Copyright Stanford University Revs Gallery [url]
Silverstone
|http://thumbsnap.com/9U89gSgD[/url]
The Car I think was given the fictitious reg no of PG1 and later extended to XPG1 around the time john Wingfield started driving it….I may be wrong on this but I don't think XPG1 was ever a registration number issued by the DVLA for the car…As such it may well have been the other car or a completely different car. I don't think the car that was or rather is XPG was ever road registered though…We should probably start another thread but I think I may have a bit more history including Silverstone Relay Oulton Park Goodwood TT and Spa. However, I'm not entirely clear on the identity of Paddy Gaston's car at various races and whether it was APH 223B or X PG 1. I'll do a bit more digging to see if I can identify the correct races.
Spa
Copyright Stanford University Revs Gallery [url]
Silverstone
|http://thumbsnap.com/9U89gSgD[/url]N.
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