Vixen Type 9 details
Discussion
At last the Type 9 is rebuilt with the close ratios many thanks to BGH. Does anyone have a template for the chassis mount, and is there a propshaft end thats suitable as the old bullet box splines are too small - is it a case of getting a Sierra end and making one up?
Also lastly the clutch I think will be hydraulic centre type - there are many suppliers but has anyone got a reliable one and if so who supplied it there's no way I'm going to want to take it apart again if the seals fail every few years!
Many thanks
Also lastly the clutch I think will be hydraulic centre type - there are many suppliers but has anyone got a reliable one and if so who supplied it there's no way I'm going to want to take it apart again if the seals fail every few years!
Many thanks
I fitted a type 9 to my S3 Vixen a few years ago and kept the lever arm clutch.
Surprisingly a Hillman Avenger clutch kit had the correct friction plate, cover and release bearing to fit the larger splined shaft. I seem to remember my crossflow had the smaller clutch diameter - if there was such a thing.
It was from a V6 Granada and had already had the input shaft shortened, I bought it second hand off of a Westfield owner who was fitting a Quaife to go with his 2.3 Duratech.
Tim
Surprisingly a Hillman Avenger clutch kit had the correct friction plate, cover and release bearing to fit the larger splined shaft. I seem to remember my crossflow had the smaller clutch diameter - if there was such a thing.
It was from a V6 Granada and had already had the input shaft shortened, I bought it second hand off of a Westfield owner who was fitting a Quaife to go with his 2.3 Duratech.
Tim
Vague memories of 30+ years ago when I had a Rocket box in my 1600M, 4-speed but same output as type 9, I also found something ex-Hillman propshaft front yoke to fit. There were several cars of that era that used the same sized yoke but the starting point would probably be a non-staked joint RS2000 prop, all likely to be either rockinghorse or expensive! I seem to remember using a Transit bell housing at the time now there is a choice of suitable alloy ones. My Vixen came with a type 9 already fitted but I have not had it apart yet but it looks to be standard clutch release apart from being converted to cable the same as my M. Geoff
I did this nearly 30 years ago now....wow...Time really moves on....
From memory, the box swapped over with no problems at all apart from:
1) A different clutch plate. Not sure but I was running a Lotus TC clutch cover, I have the feeling it was a Talbot clutch plate
2) I needed to make a small bracket to locate the speedo cable in the box
3) The mount for the rear of the gearbox has to be further back and higher I think (but could be lower). Either way it was very easily made: Two bits of 1" box section steel front to back to locate with the holes in the chassis plates and extend backwards. and 1" box across the two (either above or below) with a plate for the gearbox mount. Couldn't have been easier really.
For a prop, I went to reco prop in Luton who supplied me the yoke and prop itself.
I also re-drilled the cable mount for the clutch cable a little nearer the pedal fulcrum to give me less clutch travel but a lighter pedal pressure
HTH
Neil
From memory, the box swapped over with no problems at all apart from:
1) A different clutch plate. Not sure but I was running a Lotus TC clutch cover, I have the feeling it was a Talbot clutch plate
2) I needed to make a small bracket to locate the speedo cable in the box
3) The mount for the rear of the gearbox has to be further back and higher I think (but could be lower). Either way it was very easily made: Two bits of 1" box section steel front to back to locate with the holes in the chassis plates and extend backwards. and 1" box across the two (either above or below) with a plate for the gearbox mount. Couldn't have been easier really.
For a prop, I went to reco prop in Luton who supplied me the yoke and prop itself.
I also re-drilled the cable mount for the clutch cable a little nearer the pedal fulcrum to give me less clutch travel but a lighter pedal pressure
HTH
Neil
What engine - crossflow?
I have just converted my Vixen S3 (restoring it).
I had a Capri-type type-9 'box - has a 1" longer shaft - originally from a Caterham.
Additionally I needed:
o bellhousing (rs200-style (not alloy, tho')
o clutch plate and cover - Sierra 1.6
o original flywheel, but lightened/balanced (local machine shop), with new centre bearing
o kept it cable-run - standard Sierra with std thrust bearing
o spacer for gearbox to bellhousing (due to longer shaft)
o custom prop from Bailey Morris - larger type-9 nose and live-axle type diff end
o chassis mount of my own design, using a standard Sierra mount
Pics so far are up on what used to be google+, but they seem to have just changed it and what used to be in date take order is now all over the place:
https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipMY2Q-yyAUKRj...
I have just converted my Vixen S3 (restoring it).
I had a Capri-type type-9 'box - has a 1" longer shaft - originally from a Caterham.
Additionally I needed:
o bellhousing (rs200-style (not alloy, tho')
o clutch plate and cover - Sierra 1.6
o original flywheel, but lightened/balanced (local machine shop), with new centre bearing
o kept it cable-run - standard Sierra with std thrust bearing
o spacer for gearbox to bellhousing (due to longer shaft)
o custom prop from Bailey Morris - larger type-9 nose and live-axle type diff end
o chassis mount of my own design, using a standard Sierra mount
Pics so far are up on what used to be google+, but they seem to have just changed it and what used to be in date take order is now all over the place:
https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipMY2Q-yyAUKRj...
It's for crossflow on a S2 Vixen so it's hydraulic clutch, I would much prefer to keep a trad clutch arm and external slave but finding an arm arrangement is proving impossible.
The gearbox is short input Sierra with ali AVO bellhousing cast by MKF engineering. This also keeps starter/clutch on the correct sides. MKF are very helpful and looking at fabricating an arm but surprised nothing standard fits, it's a very well made b/h but at this point it seems no clutch arm in the universe will work. Goodness knows whats gone awry.
The Hillman/Sunbeam/other arm idea is interesting but by any chance does anyone have a definitive spec for an arm?
I have asked some ford parts suppliers but with no real conclusion to it.
The pivot point is similar to bullet box ie a rocking point on a central peg, hydraulic action and for type 9 size release bearing. Here's the b/h -
The gearbox is short input Sierra with ali AVO bellhousing cast by MKF engineering. This also keeps starter/clutch on the correct sides. MKF are very helpful and looking at fabricating an arm but surprised nothing standard fits, it's a very well made b/h but at this point it seems no clutch arm in the universe will work. Goodness knows whats gone awry.
The Hillman/Sunbeam/other arm idea is interesting but by any chance does anyone have a definitive spec for an arm?
I have asked some ford parts suppliers but with no real conclusion to it.
The pivot point is similar to bullet box ie a rocking point on a central peg, hydraulic action and for type 9 size release bearing. Here's the b/h -
On related matter, do the quick shift gEars ticks rattle and hum? Again a pointer in the direction of one which has worked would be appreciated. I'm hearing from MKF next week regarding an anvil produced clutch arm so I hope it's good news although again if anyone has a spec on a manufacturers one which works it would be a godsend!
Ahh, I note, it was a 1600M I put the type 9 in, not a Vixen, was a long time ago, sorry......Hence my comments on the cable clutch.
I did also put a type 9 in an Anglia 105E around the same time. That had a hydraulic clutch. There's probably a much better solution now - back then I made a bracket to mount the hydraulic slave cylinder on the "other side" of the bellhousing to push the cable driven clutch fork and modified it to work with an adjustable pushrod from the salve cylinder.
Neil
I did also put a type 9 in an Anglia 105E around the same time. That had a hydraulic clutch. There's probably a much better solution now - back then I made a bracket to mount the hydraulic slave cylinder on the "other side" of the bellhousing to push the cable driven clutch fork and modified it to work with an adjustable pushrod from the salve cylinder.
Neil
Adrian@ said:
Rattle, in what way, the type 9 quick shift uses the same type 9 plastic bush as the standard gear lever, so it should be no different than the standard 'rattle' ..that said, none of the gearbox builders (inc BGH) that I know will warranty their gearboxes if you mention to them that you are using one.
Adrian@
All sorts of mods been tried by people to resolve the rattle/buzzing. Rally Design only sell racing shifts where buzzing isn't a problem (ie theirs rattle). In fact BGH are fine with it, they just don't sell them. Adrian@
I was hoping someone may have fitted one that's definitely OK and know where it came from...
I am not sure where all this discussion regarding rattling gearsticks, unwarranted gearbox builds etc etc etc comes from..
Ove the years I have driven many many fords, some with 4 speed some with 5 some with bolt in gear sticks and some with the old fashioned screw thread and tang fixed affairs..I have some that have rattled and some which didn't. I have also driven modern Landrovers with ford boxes which have rattled.. my general observations are that if a stick rattles than it isn't really the stick at fault it is probably harmonic vibration in the gearbox along the first motion then layshaft to the selector fork where the stick drops into.. These can be packed with heavy grease which helps. The old ford books at the time also recommended a heavy rubber strap to dampen the stick.later on the manufacturers provided a 2 piece stick which was a bonded rubber affair to dampen the vibrations..
To be honest whether using standard sticks or quick shifts I have never really noticed any great problems in fast road cars, especially placcy ones which have a whole host of other rattles , clonks and vibrations.
I dare say if you wanted to be really anal about it a quick shift could be stripped down and alternative bush material used etc to dampen any vibrations.
People must be getting very soft in their old age….
N.
Ove the years I have driven many many fords, some with 4 speed some with 5 some with bolt in gear sticks and some with the old fashioned screw thread and tang fixed affairs..I have some that have rattled and some which didn't. I have also driven modern Landrovers with ford boxes which have rattled.. my general observations are that if a stick rattles than it isn't really the stick at fault it is probably harmonic vibration in the gearbox along the first motion then layshaft to the selector fork where the stick drops into.. These can be packed with heavy grease which helps. The old ford books at the time also recommended a heavy rubber strap to dampen the stick.later on the manufacturers provided a 2 piece stick which was a bonded rubber affair to dampen the vibrations..
To be honest whether using standard sticks or quick shifts I have never really noticed any great problems in fast road cars, especially placcy ones which have a whole host of other rattles , clonks and vibrations.
I dare say if you wanted to be really anal about it a quick shift could be stripped down and alternative bush material used etc to dampen any vibrations.
People must be getting very soft in their old age….
N.
Adrian@ said:
Neil the warranty issues is valid, as some of the people who have type 9 converted with std gearbox builds (not anyone who has one one of my conversions) have been refused claims after fitting quick shifts...Or do what TVR did on almost all the cars from 83 onwards... put a wishbone bush vertically as part of the gear lever.
Adrian@
I will wait to see if the old fellas rattles first. I suspect there will be a whole host of other stuff that rattles more than the box. I suspect the old fella will be after me for the warranty claim Adrian@
The gearbox re-builder who refuses a claim on the installation of a quick shift in my opinion is looking for a get out after a poor quality box re-build..!!
Don't think I have ever broken a box in a road car.. Vague memory of a 2.8 5 sp having 5th gear shear off the end of the shaft but other than that I have been pretty fortunate
N.
Adrian@ said:
I have my owns cars and 40 odd customers cars and not one of them have complained about buzzing on any of my type nine conversions, but then, not one of them are running a standard front lay gear bearing. I would want that in writing from any gearbox builder.
Adrian@
That's very reassuring A. There's a heck of a lot of people elsewhere that have had problems and I'm more than happy to drill and tap in three grub screws to better hold the ball but would prefer to just get one that won't need it. The type 9 installation is supposed to be straightforward but at every turn there are ifs and buts and it's no surprise that no one has been able to identify a supplier yet who can do a shift that's ok. The bellhousing setup should also have been straightforward but has led to the discovery that despite many having been made and sold no one has actually fitted a clutch with an arm to one.Adrian@
So much for the one weekend in/out job I had planned. Sigh.
My quikshift rattle is due to the spherical bearing housing circlip having insufficient nip on the bearing. Cured (to prove it out) with a rubber washer, but to be properly sorted with a Bellville or wavy washer when I can find one the right size.
I'm interested that the rattle may be an indicator for the bearing condition. What is the rework on the shaft?
I'm interested that the rattle may be an indicator for the bearing condition. What is the rework on the shaft?
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