Tuscan V6 prop length

[Sonus]

Does anyone have a original Tuscan V6 propshaft they could measure for me? My Vixen which has the salisbury diff and same gearbox as the Tuscan V6 seem to have a prop that is too short as it sticks out almost 2" from the gearbox before the first U-joint. It creates the vibrations that I have mentioned in my thread i believe as there isn't enough of the prop supported inside the gearbox tailhousing.

[bluezeeland]

Need something like this ?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LAND-ROVER-DISCOVERY-1-1...

[TDC-belgium]

Perhaps you can contact GKN Norway ; they can help to sort your problem : GKN can make or repair the propshaft( install a new tube with correct lenght) and balance your propshaft to solve the vibrations;
important!!
Check first if the angle of the propshaft is not wider than 5°. check both angles ( diff side and gearbox side : if there are different angles ; this will give some serious vibrations in the propshaft. measure angle diff side when the car is on a 4 point ramp : all wheels must touch the plates and the car must be in driving position: simulate a road contact. when you check on a 2 point ramp ; the rear axle will "hang" a little bit and the angle measurement will be not correct.

According to my experience , both U joints must be replaced too : the lenght is not the cause of the vibrations.
You can always send me a pm.

Service Centre Oslo
GKN Driveline Service Scandinavia AB
Karihaugveien 102
1086 Oslo
phone: [phone]
fax: [phone]

[Astacus]

Hi Sonus,

If you mean something like this



Then i am told this is normal

[Grantura MKI]

I would think that is too much for fixed units. I would build it with 1" between the yoke and tail housing.
Best,
D.

[Sonus]

Astacus said:

Hi Sonus,

If you mean something like this



Then i am told this is normal

Yes that is what I tried to tell in words

There is play in the forward sliding part of the prop going into the gearbox. So whenever I lift off or I'm on part throttle there is a bad vibration through the prop and gear lever.

[Sonus]

Grantura MKI said:

I would think that is too much for fixed units. I would build it with 1" between the yoke and tail housing.
Best,
D.

That what as I though might be a quick fix until I get my TVR T5 box from Ireland. Hopefully the prop can be removed from underneath the car without removing either diff or gearbox.

[bluezeeland]

Sonus said:

Grantura MKI said:

I would think that is too much for fixed units. I would build it with 1" between the yoke and tail housing.
Best,
D.

That what as I though might be a quick fix until I get my TVR T5 box from Ireland. Hopefully the prop can be removed from underneath the car without removing either diff or gearbox.

Hi, Niels,

Yes, it can be removed on its own

Frank

[Sonus]

TDC-belgium said:

Perhaps you can contact GKN Norway ; they can help to sort your problem : GKN can make or repair the propshaft( install a new tube with correct lenght) and balance your propshaft to solve the vibrations;
important!!
Check first if the angle of the propshaft is not wider than 5°. check both angles ( diff side and gearbox side : if there are different angles ; this will give some serious vibrations in the propshaft. measure angle diff side when the car is on a 4 point ramp : all wheels must touch the plates and the car must be in driving position: simulate a road contact. when you check on a 2 point ramp ; the rear axle will "hang" a little bit and the angle measurement will be not correct.

According to my experience , both U joints must be replaced too : the lenght is not the cause of the vibrations.
You can always send me a pm.

Service Centre Oslo
GKN Driveline Service Scandinavia AB
Karihaugveien 102
1086 Oslo
phone: [phone]
fax: [phone]

Since I have a difference of 7 degrees between the gearbox output flange and diff input flange I asked GKN to quote for a double CV-jointed prop, however the price of £800 for the prop has me trying other solutions first

[Sonus]

prideaux said:

Sonus said:

Since I have a difference of 7 degrees between the gearbox output flange and diff input flange I asked GKN to quote for a double CV-jointed prop, however the price of £800 for the prop has me trying other solutions first

Niels
May sound drastic but you may find in the long run engine out and re position the engine might be in the long run more practical and create a better solution
A

Long term goal is exactly that, but the current vibration is taking away some of the enjoyment of the car so needs to be temporarily fixed until I can fit the T5 Box and lower the front of the engine.

[thegamekeeper]

Sonus said:

Long term goal is exactly that, but the current vibration is taking away some of the enjoyment of the car so needs to be temporarily fixed until I can fit the T5 Box and lower the front of the engine.

Niels, the first thing I would do is STOP right now!

The last thing you need are the measurements for a Tuscan V6, it's a LWB car with a different chassis, engine and gearbox.

As we have previously discussed the articulation on your prop shaft far exceeds the maximum angles in both planes. New gearbox and prop shaft are both expensive and will not cure anything and to cure your problem properly and permanently will be expensive enough.

Your engine MUST be lowered about 10cms to a point where exhaust exits below top chassis rail in order to allow the prop shaft to align properly. That is the inexpensive bit. You will then need to make a new sump to give you ground clearance whilst still clearing the crank. This will mean it needs to be wider to give sufficient oil capacity (or go dry sump,).

You will then need new or modified manifolds and/or exhaust system, possibly modifications to cooling system"..............

Need I go on, T5 gearbox comes in my opinion along way in the future.


sTeVeR

[Sonus]

thegamekeeper said:

Sonus said:

Long term goal is exactly that, but the current vibration is taking away some of the enjoyment of the car so needs to be temporarily fixed until I can fit the T5 Box and lower the front of the engine.

Niels, the first thing I would do is STOP right now!

The last thing you need are the measurements for a Tuscan V6, it's a LWB car with a different chassis, engine and gearbox.

As we have previously discussed the articulation on your prop shaft far exceeds the maximum angles in both planes. New gearbox and prop shaft are both expensive and will not cure anything and to cure your problem properly and permanently will be expensive enough.

Your engine MUST be lowered about 10cms to a point where exhaust exits below top chassis rail in order to allow the prop shaft to align properly. That is the inexpensive bit. You will then need to make a new sump to give you ground clearance whilst still clearing the crank. This will mean it needs to be wider to give sufficient oil capacity (or go dry sump,).

You will then need new or modified manifolds and/or exhaust system, possibly modifications to cooling system"..............

Need I go on, T5 gearbox comes in my opinion along way in the future.


sTeVeR

Steve
Thank you for the heads up, I didn't think about the wheelbase difference of the Tuscan and Vixen Series1. I guess I owe you for saving me some £££

Could I trouble you with pictures of your car Steve? I'd really like to see close up how the engine sits in your chassis. Only pictures I have seen are those in the add on here. My engine uses the Saloon sump with the sump bowl at the back end. I took some pictures yesterday form underneath and the lowest part of the sump is no a few mm above the lower chassis rails.



Does your car use the SP250 or Saloon sump?

I have tried imagining how your car manages to get the exhaust manifolds below the top chassis rails, but cannot
So pictures of these would also be very very helpful

I think I really need to speak to you again Steve so will try to give you a call this afternoon if that is okay?

[Astacus]

Grantura MKI said:

I would think that is too much for fixed units. I would build it with 1" between the yoke and tail housing.
Best,
D.

Thanks for the advice. Hopefully later this year it should all be properly adjusted when I finally get the chassis sorted out.

[TDC-belgium]

Niels

If you can bring the angles back below 5° it will be ok to install new propshaft with U joints : the slipyoke that goes in the gearbox should be maximum extended 1/3 of the total lenght of the gliding part of the slipyoke
It is like "gamekeeper" told you : lower your complete engine and gearbox to have a good angle

When you are planning to change gearbox : look for the splines inside : Ford T9 or Ford E2000 ( 4 speed) normally has inside splines with 26 teeth.

Propshaft Series SAE 1310 : it will be strong enough :costs more or less between 350 en 450€

[Sonus]

TDC-belgium said:

Niels

If you can bring the angles back below 5° it will be ok to install new propshaft with U joints : the slipyoke that goes in the gearbox should be maximum extended 1/3 of the total lenght of the gliding part of the slipyoke
It is like "gamekeeper" told you : lower your complete engine and gearbox to have a good angle

When you are planning to change gearbox : look for the splines inside : Ford T9 or Ford E2000 ( 4 speed) normally has inside splines with 26 teeth.

Propshaft Series SAE 1310 : it will be strong enough :costs more or less between 350 en 450€

Thanks, the TVR T5 has 27 spline output shaft and 23 spline 1" input shaft.

I will remove the current prop and measure the slipyoke length and add spacer as need to get no more than 1/3 protrusion as a temporary fix.

[TDC-belgium]

Sonus said:

Thanks, the TVR T5 has 27 spline output shaft and 23 spline 1" input shaft.

I will remove the current prop and measure the slipyoke length and add spacer as need to get no more than 1/3 protrusion as a temporary fix.

Be sure that there will be a slipyoke with 27spline available !!! ; the size of the U-joints must be the same at both ends

[Sonus]

TDC-belgium said:

Sonus said:

Thanks, the TVR T5 has 27 spline output shaft and 23 spline 1" input shaft.

I will remove the current prop and measure the slipyoke length and add spacer as need to get no more than 1/3 protrusion as a temporary fix.

Be sure that there will be a slipyoke with 27spline available !!! ; the size of the U-joints must be the same at both ends

I'm looking for a TVR Griffith prop to modify

It makes me feel good that the parts will have TVR origin

[heightswitch]

I am not sure where people are getting a magic 5 degrees from. Shafts have joints on each end because of a need to articulate. The max deflection is dictated by the joint itself and high articulation joints are available.

That said a small angle has less dynamic force going through it than a big angle..The worst thing though is a perfectly straight U/J which will also vibrate profusely.

The problem with your car is that it evidently has had a poorly executed engine installation and you really need to ensure that before you start talking about replacement gearboxes etc that all of the inherent driveline problems are solved.

A driveline needs to be in Phase to prevent excessive vibration. Being in phase means that the relative angles of each shaft end need to add up to 180 degrees.

So. If your diff pinion flange is mounted level in the car then your engine must also be mounted level in the car.

I can talk at length about offsets and driveline angles but I am a simple whippet racer at heart so won't. The bottom line is that the vertical offset between your gearbox output shaft and pinion drive shaft is excessive causing both high drive angles and excessive deflection of your u/j's

You could alter the driveline angle of the diff by tilting it upward and lower the gearbox output shaft angle by tilting it downward. this will lessen your U/J angles. You must however ensure that a neutral driveline phase is achieved. IE the upward angle and downward angle add up to 180 degrees

When you have sorted this then you need to make a custom prop shaft which has the correct developed length. The gearbox and diff in a vixen is fixed so the clearances need to allow for relative movement of the diff and gearbox rather than a live axle which slides in and out of the gearbox end.. Generally an inch is fine.

You don't need any second hand tvr bits. All good prop manufacturers keep all combinations of drive yokes and splines, similarly flanges can be custom drilled to any PCD.

You need to ensure that your car has a driveline as good as it can be before you go to further expense.

Looking at the phase offsets in the way described may allow you to get a drivable car whilst not spending a small fortune.

N.

[bluezeeland]

@heightswitch

Forgive my ingnorance (DIYer and all that), but how do you accurately measure the angles (both planes) ?

Have recently changed to 5 speed, type 9 and reconditioned the diff, have measured the diff at the forward facing flange (by means of a laser thingy), which seems vertical (or as close as) but not to sure about the gearbox angle (obviously had to replace for a correct mount, different height)
For clarity we are talking M-series here, and no, there is not a lot of vibration....)


@sonus; sorry for the hijack (however, related..)

Frank

[heightswitch]

I use an angle setter.

Rabone do a cheap magnetic one…

http://www.flickr.com/photos/eoorider/6531722477/

N.