New build, old school shell on later spec chassis - discuss?
Discussion
For my next project Im thinking of rebodying a later spec car (I.e. chimeara) with an early styled body shell.
Why? To get the best of both worlds, modern running gear, reliable economic v8 performance with the style and looks of an earlier car. Using a donor car means no bespoke major parts.
My thought process is to use a catD car that would otherwise be stripped and sold for parts.
The shell would consist of the inner tub of a chimeara (so it fits straight on) and uses chimeara steering column, electrics, etc.
The outer style will be based on early Griffith/wide body Tuscan.
What's your thoughts on this project?
Thanks,
Phil.
Why? To get the best of both worlds, modern running gear, reliable economic v8 performance with the style and looks of an earlier car. Using a donor car means no bespoke major parts.
My thought process is to use a catD car that would otherwise be stripped and sold for parts.
The shell would consist of the inner tub of a chimeara (so it fits straight on) and uses chimeara steering column, electrics, etc.
The outer style will be based on early Griffith/wide body Tuscan.
What's your thoughts on this project?
Thanks,
Phil.
Why?
The Thurner and M chassis are just as good as any later up ended tower crane with telescopic suspension and fully triangulated wishbones. You will gain absolutely nothing by trying to mix the 2 parts only creating a chopped around chassis trying to make it fit a different wheelbase!! it is easy enough to re-engineer the driveline and 4 corners within the existing chassis.
You are deluding yourself even further assuming an old OHV Rover lump is modern and reliable
N.
The Thurner and M chassis are just as good as any later up ended tower crane with telescopic suspension and fully triangulated wishbones. You will gain absolutely nothing by trying to mix the 2 parts only creating a chopped around chassis trying to make it fit a different wheelbase!! it is easy enough to re-engineer the driveline and 4 corners within the existing chassis.
You are deluding yourself even further assuming an old OHV Rover lump is modern and reliable
N.
Edited by heightswitch on Sunday 13th January 13:20
heightswitch said:
Why?
The Thurner and M chassis are just as good as any later up ended tower crane with telescopic suspension and fully triangulated wishbones. You will gain absolutely nothing by trying to mix the 2 parts only creating a chopped around chassis trying to make it fit a different wheelbase!!
Ok, well im not suggesting the later cars are necessarily better in chassis design or not, but think of my suggestion more along the lines of making good use of otherwise to be dismantled cars. The Thurner and M chassis are just as good as any later up ended tower crane with telescopic suspension and fully triangulated wishbones. You will gain absolutely nothing by trying to mix the 2 parts only creating a chopped around chassis trying to make it fit a different wheelbase!!
Costs- there are far more chimeara donors available for @ £3k. than there are original cars. What better to rebuild them to look like this :-
Assume you dont have access to an original early car to restore, its not like they come up very often? but want a lookalike.
No changes at all to the chassis, the body shell will fit directly onto the chimeara platform, arches will accomodate standard wheels even as the new tub will be identical to the chimeara underneath. Only the external appearance will look old school.
New life for cars otherwise heading for the scrapyard?
my250gt said:
Ok, well im not suggesting the later cars are necessarily better in chassis design or not, but think of my suggestion more along the lines of making good use of otherwise to be dismantled cars.
Costs- there are far more chimeara donors available for @ £3k. than there are original cars. What better to rebuild them to look like this :-
Assume you dont have access to an original early car to restore, its not like they come up very often? but want a lookalike.
No changes at all to the chassis, the body shell will fit directly onto the chimeara platform, arches will accomodate standard wheels even as the new tub will be identical to the chimeara underneath. Only the external appearance will look old school.
New life for cars otherwise heading for the scrapyard?
So for 3k you are going to buy a chimaera, Throw the body away...Then repair a totally shagged chassis and running gear (which is why it is 3k) then buy yourself a new bodyshell with a different wheelbase!!Costs- there are far more chimeara donors available for @ £3k. than there are original cars. What better to rebuild them to look like this :-
Assume you dont have access to an original early car to restore, its not like they come up very often? but want a lookalike.
No changes at all to the chassis, the body shell will fit directly onto the chimeara platform, arches will accomodate standard wheels even as the new tub will be identical to the chimeara underneath. Only the external appearance will look old school.
New life for cars otherwise heading for the scrapyard?
Have you built many cars?
N.
I was thinking £3k reasonable for a 50k miles pre-accident car with bodyshell damage?
New shell fits straight on, same wheelbase.
My last griff rebuild was straight forward enough, certainly easier than my cobra build. They really are not that complicated when compared to kit cars.
Phil.
New shell fits straight on, same wheelbase.
My last griff rebuild was straight forward enough, certainly easier than my cobra build. They really are not that complicated when compared to kit cars.
Phil.
my250gt said:
I was thinking £3k reasonable for a 50k miles pre-accident car with bodyshell damage?
New shell fits straight on, same wheelbase.
My last griff rebuild was straight forward enough, certainly easier than my cobra build. They really are not that complicated when compared to kit cars.
Phil.
Are they the same wheelbase?New shell fits straight on, same wheelbase.
My last griff rebuild was straight forward enough, certainly easier than my cobra build. They really are not that complicated when compared to kit cars.
Phil.
As someone who has also built a cobra, and lets face it Who hasn't !! All I will say is I look forward to seeing your shell and accident damaged Chim side by side and ready to be started.
N.
my250gt said:
For my next project Im thinking of rebodying a later spec car (I.e. chimeara) with an early styled body shell.
Why? To get the best of both worlds, modern running gear, reliable economic v8 performance with the style and looks of an earlier car. Using a donor car means no bespoke major parts.
My thought process is to use a catD car that would otherwise be stripped and sold for parts.
The shell would consist of the inner tub of a chimeara (so it fits straight on) and uses chimeara steering column, electrics, etc.
The outer style will be based on early Griffith/wide body Tuscan.
What's your thoughts on this project?
Thanks,
Phil.
My thoughts are, where there's a will there's a way.Why? To get the best of both worlds, modern running gear, reliable economic v8 performance with the style and looks of an earlier car. Using a donor car means no bespoke major parts.
My thought process is to use a catD car that would otherwise be stripped and sold for parts.
The shell would consist of the inner tub of a chimeara (so it fits straight on) and uses chimeara steering column, electrics, etc.
The outer style will be based on early Griffith/wide body Tuscan.
What's your thoughts on this project?
Thanks,
Phil.
And I look forward to seeing the finished result.
my250gt said:
For my next project Im thinking of rebodying a later spec car (I.e. chimeara) with an early styled body shell.
Why? To get the best of both worlds, modern running gear, reliable economic v8 performance with the style and looks of an earlier car. Using a donor car means no bespoke major parts.
My thought process is to use a catD car that would otherwise be stripped and sold for parts.
The shell would consist of the inner tub of a chimeara (so it fits straight on) and uses chimeara steering column, electrics, etc.
The outer style will be based on early Griffith/wide body Tuscan.
What's your thoughts on this project?
Thanks,
Phil.
Vixen Wheelbase = 85.5" Why? To get the best of both worlds, modern running gear, reliable economic v8 performance with the style and looks of an earlier car. Using a donor car means no bespoke major parts.
My thought process is to use a catD car that would otherwise be stripped and sold for parts.
The shell would consist of the inner tub of a chimeara (so it fits straight on) and uses chimeara steering column, electrics, etc.
The outer style will be based on early Griffith/wide body Tuscan.
What's your thoughts on this project?
Thanks,
Phil.
Chimera Wheelbase 90"
Where are you planning to add the 4.5"?
The easiest place would be through the footwell, which, by the way, doesn't have an inner and outer body. The inner and outer are a single layer at the exterior. This is where I see the biggest issue with the project -width. I think you may have to section the chassis and floor, and get the Chim longitudinal side members to the same width as a vixen's before the body would reasonably fit. Best thing for you to do, would be to do a 3D scan of a Vixen body, and a Chim underside/chassis, and manipulate them in some type of modeling software. That way, you'd KNOW what you're in for. IMHO, mating the inner tub/floor to the body will be your single largest project.
I would think that, for all of the work, you could build a truly extraordinary Chim.
Either way, I'm not trying to discourage you, just writing down my honest thoughts. If you pursue it, I wish you great success.
Best,
B.
Well as it happens I have been toying with a few bits I had lying around and found the outrigger positions of the chimeara and taimar are the same. The taimar was a close fit (although it didn't) on the chim chassis but the cross rails and central tunnel were the biggest problem.
I needed a chim tub so that I didn't have to build the floor from scratch. So a donor tub was sourced and trimmed to fit within the taimar shell.
This is where I am at, along with a scheme for the final look. Pics to follow.
Phil.
I needed a chim tub so that I didn't have to build the floor from scratch. So a donor tub was sourced and trimmed to fit within the taimar shell.
This is where I am at, along with a scheme for the final look. Pics to follow.
Phil.
Slow M said:
ixen Wheelbase = 85.5"
Chimera Wheelbase 90"
Where are you planning to add the 4.5"?
The easiest place would be through the footwell, which, by the way, doesn't have an inner and outer body. The inner and outer are a single layer at the exterior. This is where I see the biggest issue with the project -width. I think you may have to section the chassis and floor, and get the Chim longitudinal side members to the same width as a vixen's before the body would reasonably fit. Best thing for you to do, would be to do a 3D scan of a Vixen body, and a Chim underside/chassis, and manipulate them in some type of modeling software. That way, you'd KNOW what you're in for. IMHO, mating the inner tub/floor to the body will be your single largest project.
I would think that, for all of the work, you could build a truly extraordinary Chim.
Either way, I'm not trying to discourage you, just writing down my honest thoughts. If you pursue it, I wish you great success.
Best,
B.
Bernard.Chimera Wheelbase 90"
Where are you planning to add the 4.5"?
The easiest place would be through the footwell, which, by the way, doesn't have an inner and outer body. The inner and outer are a single layer at the exterior. This is where I see the biggest issue with the project -width. I think you may have to section the chassis and floor, and get the Chim longitudinal side members to the same width as a vixen's before the body would reasonably fit. Best thing for you to do, would be to do a 3D scan of a Vixen body, and a Chim underside/chassis, and manipulate them in some type of modeling software. That way, you'd KNOW what you're in for. IMHO, mating the inner tub/floor to the body will be your single largest project.
I would think that, for all of the work, you could build a truly extraordinary Chim.
Either way, I'm not trying to discourage you, just writing down my honest thoughts. If you pursue it, I wish you great success.
Best,
B.
There are 2 length vixens available!!
Secondly The issues around mating floors generally don't have anything to do with cad modelling floors...I find that it is easier to just cut and shut as you go!!
The issue for me is that it is going to just look s
t!!On an old car you want a matching track width to allow you to run nicely dished wheels, not because it is better but because it looks better.
I may be missing the point but buying a TVR to cut up to then buy some random bits to make it look like something different just has no logic.
Buy the car you want then build it, bye all means modify it to suit yourself, improve it, put in a new engine and diff or gearbox but utilise what is right in the first place.
An old Chim chassis is just as cack as an old taimar chassis to use as the basis for a bitsa. start with the right chassis in the first instant!!
By the time you have re outriggered, blasted, welded, shortened, tweaked and re-furbed a chim chassis you could have bought yourself a brand new vixen chassis.!!
Starting with 2 rotten old snotters will just leave you with double the expense.
Lets look at it a different way...
Lets say your mythical chim is £3k
add say £3k to re-furb the chassis
Engine / Box How much is up to you but basic re-fresh and a new cam...£2k ??
Buy a new vixen shell £4k with bonnet and doors,
But then..
door hinges? make your own?
screens
door frames
dash
all the myriad other little vixen trim pieces
Where are you going to find the above parts??
If you want a chime..start with a chime.
if you want an M start with an M
If you want a Vixen, start with a vixen
I will guarantee you that a nice duratec or tuned zetec powered vixen will trounce any 4 ltr chim around a short circuit.
my250gt said:
Nice cob by the way!
That cob was a very early dax..one of the first 10 or so made..it was the sttest handling car I have ever been involved with (I didn't own it I built it for a mate)....One day I met Brian Johns of DJ Sportscars and told him what I had tried to do to get the car to handle without success.. his answer was that he could never make it work either so they completely re-designed itN.
Edited by heightswitch on Sunday 13th January 18:41
Sounds a great project - I could be tempted - keep us informed.
In many ways it follows the logic of the Peter Wheeler 5000M race car (road registered) which has a stretched and widened M style shell on a race chassis.
Maybe worth talking to Brian at Lawfield as they have already been through the logic of where best to gain the inches. The moulds for the larger shell do exist.
Don't know how tall you are but I would add a couple of inches in the footwell to gain a more relaxed leg position.
Pics when trying the various fits please.
R's
David
In many ways it follows the logic of the Peter Wheeler 5000M race car (road registered) which has a stretched and widened M style shell on a race chassis.
Maybe worth talking to Brian at Lawfield as they have already been through the logic of where best to gain the inches. The moulds for the larger shell do exist.
Don't know how tall you are but I would add a couple of inches in the footwell to gain a more relaxed leg position.
Pics when trying the various fits please.
R's
David
I see where you are coming from, and of course what you are saying is completely true and makes a lot of sense, just spend £10k and buy a vixen.
But then you see this idea is not about that, its about exploring an idea. A random thought. What if.....
First pic shows taimar and chim side by side (well sort of).
The next couple show the two merging.....
The next shows the outer shell nearly in place and with a bonnet....
and the final one the planned end result...
But then you see this idea is not about that, its about exploring an idea. A random thought. What if.....
First pic shows taimar and chim side by side (well sort of).
The next couple show the two merging.....
The next shows the outer shell nearly in place and with a bonnet....
and the final one the planned end result...
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