Fisher fury - wheels, brakes and more......
Discussion
I am in the process of embarking on a series of mods for my 55 plate IRS ZX9R fury. I have ordered updated springs for the rear suspension as I have been experiencing some fouling of the rear n/s arch under load. I have opted for 200lb springs for the rear and will see how those go!
Additionally I am contemplating upgrading the braking system, I currently have standard Sierra drums on the rear & what I believe are standard Sierra ventilated discs on the front. I have to say given that the car weighs next to nothing, brake performance is pretty poor. I have looked at the possibility of upgrading to Wilwoods! But would greatly appreciate any advice, thoughts or offers of assistance would be most gratefully appreciated.
I am currently running on a set of 14x6 minilites with 185/60/14 Yokohama tyres. From what I can see most people seem to be running on 13" rims? I am fine with this as I would like to change my wheels for compomotive CXR's, the big questions are!
What size wheels would you all recommend, 13x5.5 (as the manual recommends) or 13x6? I am also contemplating tyre sizes and will probably stick with the 185/60 profile on the front, but was wondering whether to go for 225's on the rear and wondered what the consensus was? Also if opting for 225's would you recommend keeping to the 6inch width rims or would the width need to be increased to take the 225 tyres?
My final query is regarding the wheel offset recommendation depending on the choices above on wheel and tyre sizes?
Looking forward to all the responses, thanks in advance for your help.
Cheers
Mick
Additionally I am contemplating upgrading the braking system, I currently have standard Sierra drums on the rear & what I believe are standard Sierra ventilated discs on the front. I have to say given that the car weighs next to nothing, brake performance is pretty poor. I have looked at the possibility of upgrading to Wilwoods! But would greatly appreciate any advice, thoughts or offers of assistance would be most gratefully appreciated.
I am currently running on a set of 14x6 minilites with 185/60/14 Yokohama tyres. From what I can see most people seem to be running on 13" rims? I am fine with this as I would like to change my wheels for compomotive CXR's, the big questions are!
What size wheels would you all recommend, 13x5.5 (as the manual recommends) or 13x6? I am also contemplating tyre sizes and will probably stick with the 185/60 profile on the front, but was wondering whether to go for 225's on the rear and wondered what the consensus was? Also if opting for 225's would you recommend keeping to the 6inch width rims or would the width need to be increased to take the 225 tyres?
My final query is regarding the wheel offset recommendation depending on the choices above on wheel and tyre sizes?
Looking forward to all the responses, thanks in advance for your help.
Cheers
Mick
225s are far too wide on the rear. My westy ran 205s and was powered by a lightly tuned 'bird engine. There wasn't enough power to break traction in any gear on a dry road on 48Rs. 225 would be overkill.
I would probably go 205R and 185 or 205F.
That said, the most fun you will ever have is on a set of 175s on a track, as it will drift beautifully and will be a dream to oversteer on the throttle as I found at an autotest running on XR2 pepperpots and oddly matched rock hard tyres.
Depends if you want outright speed or fun. Narrower is more fun IMO.
I would probably go 205R and 185 or 205F.
That said, the most fun you will ever have is on a set of 175s on a track, as it will drift beautifully and will be a dream to oversteer on the throttle as I found at an autotest running on XR2 pepperpots and oddly matched rock hard tyres.
Depends if you want outright speed or fun. Narrower is more fun IMO.
With regard to the brakes: remember that they're unservo'd on the Fury.
It's much more likely to be a matter of hydraulic ratio than the fact that the actual brakes aren't up to the job. As you point out yoruself, if they're capable of stopping a tonne and a half of Sierra, they'll be more than up to the job of stopping a 450kg. BEC.
Consider changing the master cylinder sizes before spending a shedload of money on upgrading the brakes themselves. This will make the pedal softer (longer travel), but will give you a much greater braking response for the same pedal pressure.
It's much more likely to be a matter of hydraulic ratio than the fact that the actual brakes aren't up to the job. As you point out yoruself, if they're capable of stopping a tonne and a half of Sierra, they'll be more than up to the job of stopping a 450kg. BEC.
Consider changing the master cylinder sizes before spending a shedload of money on upgrading the brakes themselves. This will make the pedal softer (longer travel), but will give you a much greater braking response for the same pedal pressure.
I'm running 6" x 13 CXR's on my Fury R1 front and rear. They are fine for grip when warm but A048's are notoriously slippy when cold. I use 185/60R13 tyres all round. 13" wheels are the best in my view, for less unsprung weight and improved handling. Moving from 14" to 13" wheels should also improve acceleration.
I would not go narrower than 6" rims. I considered 7" rims with 205 tyres at the rear but not convinced it would gain me anything and I like the flexibility of moving wheels and tyres from front to rear.
The rear drums should be fine. My brother's Striker has them and the brakes are fine. I think he is running standard Sierra disks up front too. It's more likely to be a servo issue, as someone else stated.
Most of the braking effort is done by the front brakes. I should imagine that converting from drums to discs on the rear is a bit of a pain too. You will notice a big unsprung weight saving by ditching the standard Sierra discs and calipers up front though, as well much improved braking :-)
I've got Escort mk II light-weight and grooved (260mm diam x 7mm) front discs with Hi-Spec 4-pot aluminium calipers and Mintex 1144 pads front (Lotus Elise). At the rear I've got Ford Sierra (253mm x 10mm) rear discs and calipers, again with Mintex 1144 pads rear (Ford Sierra). I'm using Goodridge braided brake hoses and a twin master cyclinder with front/rear bias adjustment.
The stopping power is awesome but I'd like to improve the feel. I'm probably going to upgrade the front calipers to Wilwood Powerlite's later this year.
Rob
I would not go narrower than 6" rims. I considered 7" rims with 205 tyres at the rear but not convinced it would gain me anything and I like the flexibility of moving wheels and tyres from front to rear.
The rear drums should be fine. My brother's Striker has them and the brakes are fine. I think he is running standard Sierra disks up front too. It's more likely to be a servo issue, as someone else stated.
Most of the braking effort is done by the front brakes. I should imagine that converting from drums to discs on the rear is a bit of a pain too. You will notice a big unsprung weight saving by ditching the standard Sierra discs and calipers up front though, as well much improved braking :-)
I've got Escort mk II light-weight and grooved (260mm diam x 7mm) front discs with Hi-Spec 4-pot aluminium calipers and Mintex 1144 pads front (Lotus Elise). At the rear I've got Ford Sierra (253mm x 10mm) rear discs and calipers, again with Mintex 1144 pads rear (Ford Sierra). I'm using Goodridge braided brake hoses and a twin master cyclinder with front/rear bias adjustment.
The stopping power is awesome but I'd like to improve the feel. I'm probably going to upgrade the front calipers to Wilwood Powerlite's later this year.
Rob
I ran 185/205 A048's on my Fury9R and had no grip issues.
I disposed of the Sierra front set up after SVA fitted Hispec 4 pots with Mintex 1144s and non vented discs.
This reduced weight massively and improved braking no end.
Also, the standard road spring weights set up is wrong if you are tracking it.
I disposed of the Sierra front set up after SVA fitted Hispec 4 pots with Mintex 1144s and non vented discs.
This reduced weight massively and improved braking no end.
Also, the standard road spring weights set up is wrong if you are tracking it.
I thought that the standard upgrade for the springs was to put the front ones on the back and put 225lb springs on the front.
Giving 225lb on the front and 180lb on the back.
I believe that the build manual states 180lb front and 130lb rear.
As for the offset for the wheels this may help
http://www.1010tires.com/wheeloffsetcalculator.asp
Giving 225lb on the front and 180lb on the back.
I believe that the build manual states 180lb front and 130lb rear.
As for the offset for the wheels this may help
http://www.1010tires.com/wheeloffsetcalculator.asp
Yes, I was running 180lb springs up front with 130lb springs at the rear, on Nitron NTR dampers. These were the spring rates recommended by Fisher for road use. I changed them last year because the upgrade was cheap and easy to do. On checking the dampers, they had been hitting the bump stops occasionally. This is on a car that weighs 450Kg. The 180/130 configuration is just too soft.
I upgraded the rear to 225lb springs and moved the 180lb springs to the front of the car, thinking the suspension would now be rock hard, but it's not. It feels so much better and yet still handles the bumpy B-roads round here very well. There is less roll and dive. Handling is much improved too and it seems to have a lot more grip. It is a huge improvement and one I would recommend to anyone.
Rob
I upgraded the rear to 225lb springs and moved the 180lb springs to the front of the car, thinking the suspension would now be rock hard, but it's not. It feels so much better and yet still handles the bumpy B-roads round here very well. There is less roll and dive. Handling is much improved too and it seems to have a lot more grip. It is a huge improvement and one I would recommend to anyone.
Rob
robcollingridge said:
I upgraded the rear to 225lb springs and moved the 180lb springs to the front of the car, thinking the suspension would now be rock hard, but it's not. It feels so much better and yet still handles the bumpy B-roads round here very well. There is less roll and dive. Handling is much improved too and it seems to have a lot more grip. It is a huge improvement and one I would recommend to anyone.
Rob
Are you sure you have that the right way round Rob?Rob
or have I got it wrong?
robcollingridge said:
Yes, I was running 180lb springs up front with 130lb springs at the rear, on Nitron NTR dampers. These were the spring rates recommended by Fisher for road use. I changed them last year because the upgrade was cheap and easy to do. On checking the dampers, they had been hitting the bump stops occasionally. This is on a car that weighs 450Kg. The 180/130 configuration is just too soft.
I upgraded the rear to 225lb springs and moved the 180lb springs to the front of the car, thinking the suspension would now be rock hard, but it's not. It feels so much better and yet still handles the bumpy B-roads round here very well. There is less roll and dive. Handling is much improved too and it seems to have a lot more grip. It is a huge improvement and one I would recommend to anyone.
To be fair, a lot of it has to do with the damping; I made exactly the reverse change on my Sylva, because the 225F/180R springs it ran back in its racing days were far too hard for road use and the change to 180/130 has made it nicely compliant with no bottoming (and that's on a car that's heavier than Rob's at circa 508 kilos with a Crossflow)I upgraded the rear to 225lb springs and moved the 180lb springs to the front of the car, thinking the suspension would now be rock hard, but it's not. It feels so much better and yet still handles the bumpy B-roads round here very well. There is less roll and dive. Handling is much improved too and it seems to have a lot more grip. It is a huge improvement and one I would recommend to anyone.
... but I'm running cheapo Spax adjustables, not Nitrons. The Nitrons are vastly better, but my Sylva is now the 'budget nail' in my collection and I don't fancy spending as much as the car is worth on a new set of dampers!
Hi Guys
I know this thread is a bit old but I wondered if I could get some help with wheel sizes? This was a factory built Fury http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/pictures/31/2285/F... which I own. Are the wheels on it in this picture 13" or 14"? It now has 13" minilites but they don't fill the arches and the R1 sump scrapes the ground and gets holes (losing oil) all the time. Anyway looking for ways to improve ground clearance and maybe slightly fatter tyres.
I've also read somewhere that the Fury was based upon this beauty
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=maserati+450s&am...
Any truth?
I know this thread is a bit old but I wondered if I could get some help with wheel sizes? This was a factory built Fury http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/pictures/31/2285/F... which I own. Are the wheels on it in this picture 13" or 14"? It now has 13" minilites but they don't fill the arches and the R1 sump scrapes the ground and gets holes (losing oil) all the time. Anyway looking for ways to improve ground clearance and maybe slightly fatter tyres.
I've also read somewhere that the Fury was based upon this beauty
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=maserati+450s&am...
Any truth?
The wheels in your link look like 13" to me.
What's the clearance under your sump? I've run 75mm. clearance on the road in a Phoenix and it was OK, with care, but 100mm. is better.
The Fury was based on the Striker Mk.IV/Phoenix (it originated as the same bodyshell but with a windscreen and doors, though ironically they reverted to to an Aeroscreen version when FIsher took over production). The Mk. IV/Phoenix was intended simply as a low drag alternative to the traditional 'Seven' style Striker, so more likely to have been inspired by cars like the Lola Mk. 1 and Lotus Eleven - the Mk.IV/Phoenix doesn't look all that much like the Maserati - but I suppose inspiration could have been drawn from any number of '50's sports racers
What's the clearance under your sump? I've run 75mm. clearance on the road in a Phoenix and it was OK, with care, but 100mm. is better.
The Fury was based on the Striker Mk.IV/Phoenix (it originated as the same bodyshell but with a windscreen and doors, though ironically they reverted to to an Aeroscreen version when FIsher took over production). The Mk. IV/Phoenix was intended simply as a low drag alternative to the traditional 'Seven' style Striker, so more likely to have been inspired by cars like the Lola Mk. 1 and Lotus Eleven - the Mk.IV/Phoenix doesn't look all that much like the Maserati - but I suppose inspiration could have been drawn from any number of '50's sports racers
Equus said:
The wheels in your link look like 13" to me.
What's the clearance under your sump? I've run 75mm. clearance on the road in a Phoenix and it was OK, with care, but 100mm. is better.
That.What's the clearance under your sump? I've run 75mm. clearance on the road in a Phoenix and it was OK, with care, but 100mm. is better.
I run at 75mm on-road, with some care, and >7yrs in - no holes, no oil loss.
Don't worry about 'tyres filling the arches' It is absolutely not what this car is about: stay with the 13s, find a tyre that suits your use and set the chassis up for that; and very, very little will come close for driver-engagement. Enjoy it.
Yazza54 said:
My fury runs cxrs 13x6. 185/60 front and 205/60 rear yoko a048s. I can spin the rears for fun..
I have 185/60 x 14 R888Rs front & rear on 14 x 5.5 Peugeot wheels & with a 170bhp Zetec the car won't spin the wheels on a dry road - which is a good thing I would've thought.It has Wilwoods on the front & I'm about to swap the 9" Sierra drums for 8" as it has been known to lock the rears first - I'm guessing this is the improved performance of the Wilwoods shifting more of the weight to the front - but I'm only guessing.
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