One thing I have noticed about manufacturers....
Discussion
...is they don't seem to include the engine price in the Kit price.
Obviously this is because a builder will decide on his/her own engine for what they want the car to do.
However, manufacturers don't show a car engine-less, the Tiger Avon has a 1.8litre Zetec plant. The Ultima GTR Demo has a 6.3ltr Chevy lump. IMO its not only misleading when you look at the price of a kit and think F
k me, I can get an Ultima GTR with 600+bhp for £15500, but then only when you look through the kit contents, realise that you need to add on another £4-£5K for an engine, an engine that IMO should be listed in the kit price, but as an option.
Just my opinion mind you.
Obviously this is because a builder will decide on his/her own engine for what they want the car to do.
However, manufacturers don't show a car engine-less, the Tiger Avon has a 1.8litre Zetec plant. The Ultima GTR Demo has a 6.3ltr Chevy lump. IMO its not only misleading when you look at the price of a kit and think F
k me, I can get an Ultima GTR with 600+bhp for £15500, but then only when you look through the kit contents, realise that you need to add on another £4-£5K for an engine, an engine that IMO should be listed in the kit price, but as an option. Just my opinion mind you.
Taking your example of Ultima.
Ultima recommend a company in the states for supply of the engine. There is a link from the Ultima site to American Speed who have a specific section of their web site for Ultima engines. This section lists no less than 26 different engine specs and their prices which is why Ultima cannot sensibly offer a price.
Steve
Ultima recommend a company in the states for supply of the engine. There is a link from the Ultima site to American Speed who have a specific section of their web site for Ultima engines. This section lists no less than 26 different engine specs and their prices which is why Ultima cannot sensibly offer a price.
Steve
Well thats what I'm getting at.
It doesn't say on the site that you need to add all these little bits.
I didn't know you had to buy the Transaxle seperatly for example.
I am looking into a kit for the winter, it won't be an ultima unfortunately, but so many of these companies show a car and give a price without telling you that you need an engine, drive shafts etc etc etc. The price they list is sometimes doubled to get the kit finished. Maybe I'm just being picky.
and I agree on the VAT thing
It doesn't say on the site that you need to add all these little bits.
I didn't know you had to buy the Transaxle seperatly for example.
I am looking into a kit for the winter, it won't be an ultima unfortunately, but so many of these companies show a car and give a price without telling you that you need an engine, drive shafts etc etc etc. The price they list is sometimes doubled to get the kit finished. Maybe I'm just being picky.
and I agree on the VAT thing
The whole situation is very difficult for a kit company.
If they include all the bits in the price you will turn round and say I’m not paying that because I want TSW alloys not steel, I want a Momo steering wheel etc. etc.
I have also seen a case where a guy did not want the grill JBA supply (a fundamental feature in the design and character of the car) because he wanted to make his own out of brass.
It is a fine balance between that which is essential like the chassis/body and that which the customer just might want to do himself.
Don't blame the manufacturer just understand that this is the same for all kits apart from the likes of Robin Hood who produce down to a price by not having or allowing any variation.
Steve
If they include all the bits in the price you will turn round and say I’m not paying that because I want TSW alloys not steel, I want a Momo steering wheel etc. etc.
I have also seen a case where a guy did not want the grill JBA supply (a fundamental feature in the design and character of the car) because he wanted to make his own out of brass.
It is a fine balance between that which is essential like the chassis/body and that which the customer just might want to do himself.
Don't blame the manufacturer just understand that this is the same for all kits apart from the likes of Robin Hood who produce down to a price by not having or allowing any variation.
Steve
tvradict said:
...is they don't seem to include the engine price in the Kit price.
Obviously this is because a builder will decide on his/her own engine for what they want the car to do.
However, manufacturers don't show a car engine-less, the Tiger Avon has a 1.8litre Zetec plant. The Ultima GTR Demo has a 6.3ltr Chevy lump.
Would you rather try out the demonstrator without the engine? The same effect can be achieved by not starting it
Personnelly I think the Kit maufacturer should have a detailed itemised listing of the cost and labour that went into the demonstrator.
Imagine buying a car from autotrader in the normal Kit car way....... advert says £15k, you agree on the price and pay a sizable deposit..... when you pick the car up its actually £25k!
What you must remember is that every kit car builder MUST be a first time builder at some time and as such doen't know these rules.
Imagine buying a car from autotrader in the normal Kit car way....... advert says £15k, you agree on the price and pay a sizable deposit..... when you pick the car up its actually £25k!
What you must remember is that every kit car builder MUST be a first time builder at some time and as such doen't know these rules.
andycanam said:
What you must remember is that every kit car builder MUST be a first time builder at some time and as such doen't know these rules.
Point taken Andy. Every kit I've bought I've researched what that build price is likely to be, this is where the magazines should really come into their own.......
Of course if you're building something a little different from the norm.........
Good luck with the build!!!!
I think we all get frustrated at the way kit companies try to spin the total price of a build. It is of course difficult to pin down, as many builders do go off in their own direction. However, as Andy has said, having a full breakdown of the demo cars available will at least be a good starting point. Any changes/deviations from that spec that you choose to make can then be approached with your eyes wide open.
As for the prices being quoted ex-VAT, that does give me the right hump, how many of the kits bought out there are going to companies who can claim it back?
All prices should be quoted inclusive, and let the exception be those who want to reclaim the VAT. Oh, about 1 in every 1000 I would guess!
Paul.
As for the prices being quoted ex-VAT, that does give me the right hump, how many of the kits bought out there are going to companies who can claim it back?
All prices should be quoted inclusive, and let the exception be those who want to reclaim the VAT. Oh, about 1 in every 1000 I would guess!
Paul.
andycanam said:
Personnelly I think the Kit maufacturer should have a detailed itemised listing of the cost and labour that went into the demonstrator.
I May not of had a full list but was happy for you to talk to customers to find out there costs,!
guse this is not allways the case with some!
by this thread ??
dont think i tryed to Hide costs???????.did I ??
just you kept uping the spec all the time
that dose make it hard to "FIX" a price when the spec is attached to a "Rocket" that just keeps going up !!
An ultima will cost you around 45k for a resonable spec finished nicely - more like 60k for all the trimmings.
There's an excel spreadsheet that someone has prepared, that lists all the costs - no matter what you do - it never comes out at 15k!!!!
e.
(Just about to leave for santa-pod)
There's an excel spreadsheet that someone has prepared, that lists all the costs - no matter what you do - it never comes out at 15k!!!!
e.
(Just about to leave for santa-pod)
I have tried arguuing the point about kit prices before.
I love the adverts the start with 'Prices from . . . .'. This normally being for the first part needed (the chassis) and nothing else.
Why don't magazines publish estimated build costs? Totalkitcar did it with the Almanac. Nice idea having a buget cost, manufacturers estimate and all new bits cost.
Advertising prices without VAT is inexcusable. How many builders are VAT registered? So why advertise an item at say £1000 only to be told the actual cost is £1175.
The best thing is to do thorough research, ask lots of questions and shop around.
I love the adverts the start with 'Prices from . . . .'. This normally being for the first part needed (the chassis) and nothing else.
Why don't magazines publish estimated build costs? Totalkitcar did it with the Almanac. Nice idea having a buget cost, manufacturers estimate and all new bits cost.
Advertising prices without VAT is inexcusable. How many builders are VAT registered? So why advertise an item at say £1000 only to be told the actual cost is £1175.
The best thing is to do thorough research, ask lots of questions and shop around.
Ex-Biker said:
Why don't magazines publish estimated build costs? Totalkitcar did it with the Almanac. Nice idea having a buget cost, manufacturers estimate and all new bits cost.
There's also a handy build cost estimator on www.madabout-kitcars.com
Ex-Biker said:
Advertising prices without VAT is inexcusable.
I think that if you're selling to public rather than trade it's also now illegal - but many companies still do it.
Ex-Biker said:
Why don't magazines publish estimated build costs? Totalkitcar did it with the Almanac. Nice idea having a buget cost, manufacturers estimate and all new bits cost.
Not quite true the ginetta self build costs were for the all in one complete kit with everything supplied. Not the archetypal kit car build which would use a donor vehicle etc which would bring the price down. I sat down with it saying "get this off the donor ...get that off the donor " and knocked about £3k off the price in the almanac
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