Python on its way to UK !!!!!!
Discussion
Hi everyone !
Yes at last the demo car is on its way back to the Uk, along with Andy's Nemesis chassis and more Python bodies and chassis! Also lots of other parts for other UK kit companies!!!
Now its down to Customs if it gets to the show on time. I did my best. Now its down to the will of the Gods.
We will weigh her as soon as we can to settle the weight issue. Based on spring rates, we estimate the car to be from 875 to 925 kg. Anyone want to estimate the 0-60 time for a car that weighs 900 kg and has 220 hp (230 torque).
Weight distribution is very close to 50/50. We can jack the car on either side or on any corner and the doors open and close perfectly with or without a driver and passenger. We will have a jack (and hopefully the car) at Stoneleigh to prove this. We challenge all other Cobra makes to bring a jack and prove how stiff their chassis is.
Hope to see you all in Stoneleigh. I hope that Den likes "humble pie".
Vince
Yes at last the demo car is on its way back to the Uk, along with Andy's Nemesis chassis and more Python bodies and chassis! Also lots of other parts for other UK kit companies!!!
Now its down to Customs if it gets to the show on time. I did my best. Now its down to the will of the Gods.
We will weigh her as soon as we can to settle the weight issue. Based on spring rates, we estimate the car to be from 875 to 925 kg. Anyone want to estimate the 0-60 time for a car that weighs 900 kg and has 220 hp (230 torque).
Weight distribution is very close to 50/50. We can jack the car on either side or on any corner and the doors open and close perfectly with or without a driver and passenger. We will have a jack (and hopefully the car) at Stoneleigh to prove this. We challenge all other Cobra makes to bring a jack and prove how stiff their chassis is.
Hope to see you all in Stoneleigh. I hope that Den likes "humble pie".
Vince
v8pete said:
My Mk II Sumo weighed in (for SVA) at 936 kgs with a full tank & weight distribution was pretty damn good. Goes very nicely with a tuned 4.6 Rover ...and not an ECU in sight !!
Pete.
so its not 50/50 then ??? just close ??
sounds like your sumo would be a good one to have a HEAD to HEAD test with ,as you have a v8 and 1100cc more than the python (but no ABS ,power steering)limeted slip diff ???
should make a good test !!!
vince rvd said:
My Mk II Sumo weighed in (for SVA) at 936 kgs with a full tank & weight distribution was pretty damn good. Goes very nicely with a tuned 4.6 Rover ...and not an ECU in sight !!
Pete.
so its not 50/50 then ??? just close ??
sounds like your sumo would be a good one to have a HEAD to HEAD test with ,as you have a v8 and 1100cc more than the python (but no ABS ,power steering)limeted slip diff ???
should make a good test !!!
Someone got some attitude me thinks.
Is 50/50 weight distribution the best set up?
50/50 is the optimum set-up for a car as it is neither nose or tail heavy.
A lot of techniques are used to try and get the car like this such as mounting the engine up front, the gearbox at the back, or having the engine mid-mounted. You're also finding it is becoming more common for cars to have the engines mounted behind the front axle.
The better the weight distribution the better the handling (remember the old muscle cars, heavy weight at the front, none at the rear = terrible under/oversteer).
Of course, I could be talking
as I frequently do 
A lot of techniques are used to try and get the car like this such as mounting the engine up front, the gearbox at the back, or having the engine mid-mounted. You're also finding it is becoming more common for cars to have the engines mounted behind the front axle.
The better the weight distribution the better the handling (remember the old muscle cars, heavy weight at the front, none at the rear = terrible under/oversteer).
Of course, I could be talking
as I frequently do 
Regarding the points raised by Vince :
1) I didn’t quote figures for weight distribution as I don’t have a record of them. I simply remember being fairly pleased at the SVA test when glancing at the corner weights – but did not make a note. It would be nice to do a measurement sometime though. I do however remember the all up weight being 930 (936?) kilos, as during this time I like everyone else who builds a Cobra was obsessing about power toweight ratios and bhp per tonne. Thus the figure stuck in my mind.
2) Hmmm..don’t think my cobra would be a very good choice for a ‘HEAD to HEAD’ with the Python as it being a Mk II its no longer in production. Yes, I’d be very happy to take it on a track for a laugh though. In my own opinion it is now a very well sorted car – the basic geometries are very good and accurately set for what is considered a budget Cobra. The only real gripe that I had was with the totally inappropriate rear spring rates supplied with the kit (far too stiff).
3) Regarding chassis stiffness, yes I’d be happy to (and have done) jack the car on odd corners and see what flexes (doors open & close fine – which is more than you can say for my Rover Vitesse !!). Anyway, in comparison to a lot of kit cars out there the Mk II Sumo chassis is over-engineered anyway - a good thing for a road car in my opinion, but my racing friends tell me it constitutes Battleship Engineering ….
4) The jury’s out on LSDs in Cobras IMO – from my experience, the slightest little bit of wheelspin during a corner will have the back end sliding all over the show . Unless you’re an accomplished racing driver & know how to properly handle 250+ BHP on the public roads , an open diff is probably a safer option…there are however a number of LSD options for the Mk III Sumo if you really do want one.
5) Six cylinders….now that’s not really a Cobra is it ?!
Pete.
1) I didn’t quote figures for weight distribution as I don’t have a record of them. I simply remember being fairly pleased at the SVA test when glancing at the corner weights – but did not make a note. It would be nice to do a measurement sometime though. I do however remember the all up weight being 930 (936?) kilos, as during this time I like everyone else who builds a Cobra was obsessing about power toweight ratios and bhp per tonne. Thus the figure stuck in my mind.
2) Hmmm..don’t think my cobra would be a very good choice for a ‘HEAD to HEAD’ with the Python as it being a Mk II its no longer in production. Yes, I’d be very happy to take it on a track for a laugh though. In my own opinion it is now a very well sorted car – the basic geometries are very good and accurately set for what is considered a budget Cobra. The only real gripe that I had was with the totally inappropriate rear spring rates supplied with the kit (far too stiff).
3) Regarding chassis stiffness, yes I’d be happy to (and have done) jack the car on odd corners and see what flexes (doors open & close fine – which is more than you can say for my Rover Vitesse !!). Anyway, in comparison to a lot of kit cars out there the Mk II Sumo chassis is over-engineered anyway - a good thing for a road car in my opinion, but my racing friends tell me it constitutes Battleship Engineering ….
4) The jury’s out on LSDs in Cobras IMO – from my experience, the slightest little bit of wheelspin during a corner will have the back end sliding all over the show . Unless you’re an accomplished racing driver & know how to properly handle 250+ BHP on the public roads , an open diff is probably a safer option…there are however a number of LSD options for the Mk III Sumo if you really do want one.
5) Six cylinders….now that’s not really a Cobra is it ?!
Pete.
As far as the wieght split is conserned, for cars wieghting about a ton then yes 50/50 would be good, but on lighter cars, (with alot of horse power) then I think being a bit heavier over the driven wheels helps traction.
Most drag racing cars try to induce wieght transfer to the driven wheels which helps traction during excelleration.
But also wieght transfer to the front would help stopping power aswell. So wieght is a thing you want and don't want at the same time.
Car designers have it hard don't they.
I hope i confused you, as I have myself.
Am building a 600kgs 350bhp car, with 55% on the rear driven wheels.
Most drag racing cars try to induce wieght transfer to the driven wheels which helps traction during excelleration.
But also wieght transfer to the front would help stopping power aswell. So wieght is a thing you want and don't want at the same time.
Car designers have it hard don't they.
I hope i confused you, as I have myself.
Am building a 600kgs 350bhp car, with 55% on the rear driven wheels.
Hi All,
Interesting article in this months Which Kit (car) mag about the Python.
Vince, you certainly have put a lot of effort into this project, congrats for that, but why move to Sri
Lanka, apart from cheap labour?
It's a long way for customers to go if they want to look around the factory!!
Gary
Interesting article in this months Which Kit (car) mag about the Python.
Vince, you certainly have put a lot of effort into this project, congrats for that, but why move to Sri
Lanka, apart from cheap labour?
It's a long way for customers to go if they want to look around the factory!!
Gary
III here at Vince's
I agree that in light cars you need rear weight for traction. If your car is light and strong enough, you can add weight in specific places to enhance traction and braking.
As far as Sri Lanka it was a lot of things. When Vince worked with Chris, he knew Chris was planning to move their project here. When it came up again after Chris' death, it seem to make since to Vince. I have been here for a month and nice people and warm weather year around grows on you.
I pray that Vince can get the demo off the docks and to Stoneleigh in time for the show. I think a lot of people will be amazed, I know I am.
In response to the comment about a 6, I come from the land of the 427. I was not impressed when Vince told me he was building a BMW 6 replica but it works well in the Python. Vince's suggestion that a proper BMW chassis would make a great Cobra replica also seems right on!
I have not totally forgetten my roots. My 450 hp V-6 turbo, my Shelby 302 Comp and my Ford 460 (built by Kenny Trout) will all fit. I just have to decide.
thanks,
III
PS: Are there not a lot of 4 cylinder Pilgrims around? I know when I read the mags I seem to see several 4 and 6 cylinder Sumo's for sale.
I agree that in light cars you need rear weight for traction. If your car is light and strong enough, you can add weight in specific places to enhance traction and braking.
As far as Sri Lanka it was a lot of things. When Vince worked with Chris, he knew Chris was planning to move their project here. When it came up again after Chris' death, it seem to make since to Vince. I have been here for a month and nice people and warm weather year around grows on you.
I pray that Vince can get the demo off the docks and to Stoneleigh in time for the show. I think a lot of people will be amazed, I know I am.
In response to the comment about a 6, I come from the land of the 427. I was not impressed when Vince told me he was building a BMW 6 replica but it works well in the Python. Vince's suggestion that a proper BMW chassis would make a great Cobra replica also seems right on!
I have not totally forgetten my roots. My 450 hp V-6 turbo, my Shelby 302 Comp and my Ford 460 (built by Kenny Trout) will all fit. I just have to decide.
thanks,
III
PS: Are there not a lot of 4 cylinder Pilgrims around? I know when I read the mags I seem to see several 4 and 6 cylinder Sumo's for sale.
I'd be up for some friendly head-to-head race track comparisons (in about a year) I race MX bikes rather than cars so expect some odd lines.
On the 6 front, I looked at various 8 options but as I'm going for a budget build it's very hard to beat a BMW 3.5 without spending a lot of money... which would kind of blow the budget bit out of the water. The only real downside is the sound.
I race MX bikes rather than cars so expect some odd lines. On the 6 front, I looked at various 8 options but as I'm going for a budget build it's very hard to beat a BMW 3.5 without spending a lot of money... which would kind of blow the budget bit out of the water. The only real downside is the sound.
Gassing Station | Kit Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff