Oil and fuel additives
Discussion
You know the sort of things, Prolong or Slick50 that claim to improve the lubrication and engine protection qualities of oil.
Does anyone have any experience as to whether they actually work?
Similarly, what about things like STP Injector cleaner and that sort of stuff?
I've just been having a chat to the guy in my local auto factors and along with trying to convince me to give Meguiars a go rather than Autoglym, he was offering me a money back guarantee on Prolong engine oil additive. Call me an old cynic but I have a feeling that it's more akin to snake oil rather than engine oil.
On a similar note, I was wondering what the assembled panel's opinion of the fuel system cleaners are? Having recently got my new daily driver, I took a punt on a £10 pack of STP Fuel Injector Cleaner and Valve Cleaner. Was it worthwhile, or did I just throw away a tenner that would have been better used on another quarter tank of Optimax?
Does anyone have any experience as to whether they actually work?
Similarly, what about things like STP Injector cleaner and that sort of stuff?
I've just been having a chat to the guy in my local auto factors and along with trying to convince me to give Meguiars a go rather than Autoglym, he was offering me a money back guarantee on Prolong engine oil additive. Call me an old cynic but I have a feeling that it's more akin to snake oil rather than engine oil.
On a similar note, I was wondering what the assembled panel's opinion of the fuel system cleaners are? Having recently got my new daily driver, I took a punt on a £10 pack of STP Fuel Injector Cleaner and Valve Cleaner. Was it worthwhile, or did I just throw away a tenner that would have been better used on another quarter tank of Optimax?
I've never found any of these things to make a significant difference.
I change my oil more often than recommended, use a good quality oil and change the air/oil filters regularly too. That seems to help more than anything else.
The thibgs that prolong the life of the oil must also keep the crap circulating round the engine longer too, which can't be good for it.
I change my oil more often than recommended, use a good quality oil and change the air/oil filters regularly too. That seems to help more than anything else.
The thibgs that prolong the life of the oil must also keep the crap circulating round the engine longer too, which can't be good for it.
I used the Slick 50 Oil additive about 15 years ago on the advice of a friend who used it in his Formula Ford.
I did and it worked exactly as he said, Put the stuff in, run for half an hour and then reset the idle speed back down to what it was before. It picked up 250rpm just by adding the stuff. I then spent 3 years hammering the car around the country to and around various circuits, parked it up for eight years. when I finally got the car out again we put some fresh juice in, put a new battery on and it kicked in straight away. A mechanic mate had a look inside before the MOT and said that it looked perfect!
I think you have to look quite carefully at what the additives do, Slick 50 is/was a slippery chemical that coats the metal whereas some of the others thicken the oil (which stops it being broken down quickly).
As for carb/injection cleaners, they worked on my oilburner/workhorse.
I did and it worked exactly as he said, Put the stuff in, run for half an hour and then reset the idle speed back down to what it was before. It picked up 250rpm just by adding the stuff. I then spent 3 years hammering the car around the country to and around various circuits, parked it up for eight years. when I finally got the car out again we put some fresh juice in, put a new battery on and it kicked in straight away. A mechanic mate had a look inside before the MOT and said that it looked perfect!
I think you have to look quite carefully at what the additives do, Slick 50 is/was a slippery chemical that coats the metal whereas some of the others thicken the oil (which stops it being broken down quickly).
As for carb/injection cleaners, they worked on my oilburner/workhorse.
Cheers guys, that's interesting stuff. As I understand it, this Prolong the chap was trying to flog me is very similar to Slick50. One of the things that put me off was his claim that Prolong is the only one not to have fallen fould to false advertising claims in the states. A quick Google shows that they did indeed fall fould of the same litigation as all the others.
We shall have to see. At £30 for a pack of oil, fuel and transmission additive, it might be worth a punt.
We shall have to see. At £30 for a pack of oil, fuel and transmission additive, it might be worth a punt.
I haven't tried the transmission stuff, as some gearboxes need a certain amont of friction (as I understand it). It's up to you!
For the engine stuff (S50), they say don't put it in until the engine is properly run in. Also I doubt you will notice the RPM being freed up like I did, as yr car's injected and should automatically adjust.
>> Edited by Alpineandy on Tuesday 17th February 17:35
For the engine stuff (S50), they say don't put it in until the engine is properly run in. Also I doubt you will notice the RPM being freed up like I did, as yr car's injected and should automatically adjust.
>> Edited by Alpineandy on Tuesday 17th February 17:35
Incorrigible said:
IMHO, if it was that good the manufactureers would be using it and specifying it's use every 12,000 (or whatever) miles
Yeah, that was my initial thought, But as I said above It worked for me, admittedly on a small capacity 60s engine, but it did work.
I think machining tolerances are now so much better that its effect may only be marginal.
I bought some last week to put into the Alpine A310 but haven't got around to it yet. The engine may only be a 70s design, but it's much more modern than the 60s one and I guess I'll find out if the effect is similar or not.
I would suspect a smaller difference to the other engine but I guess we'll hae to wait and see 
The short answer is that this stuff doesn't coat bearing surfaces like the makers would have you believe, and is above the particle size that oil filters are supposed to filter out. What do you suppose happens to it? Oil and engine manufacturers do work quite hard to improve engine durability and performance and if this stuff was as good as they claim you can be pretty damned sure it would be used as standard. I suggest you do a Google search for 'snake oil' to get the full story.
Alpineandy said:
IMHO, if it was that good the manufactureers would be using it and specifying it's use every 12,000 (or whatever) miles
Yeah, that was my initial thought, But as I said above It worked for me, admittedly on a small capacity 60s engine, but it did work.
I think machining tolerances are now so much better that its effect may only be marginal.
I bought some last week to put into the Alpine A310 but haven't got around to it yet. The engine may only be a 70s design, but it's much more modern than the 60s one and I guess I'll find out if the effect is similar or not.
Well I finally got round to putting the Slick 50 in the A310. I have to be honest here and admit that It didn't gain any revs, and isn't noticable in any way that I can tell.
I swear it worked as I said above last time I used It. A friend put some in his Formula ford engine (kent) whilst at a rolling road and gained approx 3 BHP around 15 years ago.
I guess It depends what it goes into.....
Cheers
I'm not a big fan of oil additives, I figure if you're having to add stuff there's a problem that needs sorting .. however some problems are inherent engine design and cost a lot of wonga to set right. I sell Millers octane booster for owners of early cerberas that are prone to pinking .. shell optimax works great in these engines (it's one of the few things that actually seems to do what's claimed for it) .. but for times when you can't get it then the Millers stuff seems to stop it too 
Joo *big fan of millers oils*
Joo *big fan of millers oils*
I work as a lubricator in a manufacturing plant, my background is banger racing, and I have researched the use of oil additives.
First let's look at the older engines, typically the sixties and seventies. These were not manufactured using cnc machines the refinement was not typical of today's practices.
All engine oils comply to the minimum standards as set by the american car&oil industries API ACEA,and more, infact they exceed these requirements.
Early mineral oils lacked the attributes of their superior oils of today, so STP and slick 50 were introduced, they contained such slippery characters as teflon and cleaning agents- detergents. This helped the lubrication of metal components, also freeing up stuck piston rings, and buffering up oil rings. The problems with these additives were that they ended up clogging small oilways and oil filters with a syrup like material, a fresh oil and filter change would help but if this additive was needed there was usually a problem with the engine anyway.
The best way to get more from a race engine is to go for a 5-40W oil preferably synthetic (a cheap economy oil must be used first to let the engine bed in, say around 500 miles or a good two days racing).
Mineral oil breaks down, the molecules aren't so co-hesive, and the detergents evapourate. It leaves a carbon deposit in dry areas. Where as synthetics have a much higher boiling point, retaining their lubricating and cooling properties for much longer. A test was done on a bmw using synthetic oil, it was driven for 100000 miles continuous, when stripped down there was no visible wear.
Today's oil additives have moved on and teflon is rarely used, a tired old engine that has had minimal maintenance can benefit from these addtitives, but a thicker oil will help as much, manufacturers do actually provide High mileage oils for this specific requirement.
Are they any good? well I had a mk2 Granada ready for the track with a piston knock, some good ol' STP engine treatment (golden syrup) freed off the rings and lined the bores, this produced a race winning car, but I must stipulate that the engine was buggered and it needed some major help.
The use of additives is not normally recommended in a good engine, just frequent oil and filter changes.
Previous job- Industrial chemist. Sorry should have said earlier
>> Edited by dangerrous on Wednesday 26th May 21:56
First let's look at the older engines, typically the sixties and seventies. These were not manufactured using cnc machines the refinement was not typical of today's practices.
All engine oils comply to the minimum standards as set by the american car&oil industries API ACEA,and more, infact they exceed these requirements.
Early mineral oils lacked the attributes of their superior oils of today, so STP and slick 50 were introduced, they contained such slippery characters as teflon and cleaning agents- detergents. This helped the lubrication of metal components, also freeing up stuck piston rings, and buffering up oil rings. The problems with these additives were that they ended up clogging small oilways and oil filters with a syrup like material, a fresh oil and filter change would help but if this additive was needed there was usually a problem with the engine anyway.
The best way to get more from a race engine is to go for a 5-40W oil preferably synthetic (a cheap economy oil must be used first to let the engine bed in, say around 500 miles or a good two days racing).
Mineral oil breaks down, the molecules aren't so co-hesive, and the detergents evapourate. It leaves a carbon deposit in dry areas. Where as synthetics have a much higher boiling point, retaining their lubricating and cooling properties for much longer. A test was done on a bmw using synthetic oil, it was driven for 100000 miles continuous, when stripped down there was no visible wear.
Today's oil additives have moved on and teflon is rarely used, a tired old engine that has had minimal maintenance can benefit from these addtitives, but a thicker oil will help as much, manufacturers do actually provide High mileage oils for this specific requirement.
Are they any good? well I had a mk2 Granada ready for the track with a piston knock, some good ol' STP engine treatment (golden syrup) freed off the rings and lined the bores, this produced a race winning car, but I must stipulate that the engine was buggered and it needed some major help.
The use of additives is not normally recommended in a good engine, just frequent oil and filter changes.
Previous job- Industrial chemist. Sorry should have said earlier
>> Edited by dangerrous on Wednesday 26th May 21:56
I had a set of very "crusty" valves and soaked half of them for a week in Optimax and the other half in premium unleaded. The Optimax did seem to clear the crap off them rather better than the ordinary fuel. That said, my car went no faster and was no more economical on Optimax over a 2 month period.
An ex-colleague of mine some years ago was intrigued by the advertising stunt whereby they treated an engine with Slick 50 and then drained the oil and drove it for 20 miles or so. He had a scrap Austin 1800 at the time so he drained the oil (without having treated it) and still managed to drive 20 miles before it siezed.
I worked for a company that sold sports cars and specified Mobil 1 when it was first introduced. Suddenly we were awash with warranty claims for high oil consumption. After some thought, Mobil advised us NOT to use Mobil 1 until after the 12,000 mile service (just used ordinary Mobil mineral oil) and the problems went away.
They're the only three bits of evidence I have - except that my road car has done 210,000 miles on Castrol GTX 15/40 (probably got 10/40 when it was new but that was way before my time!) and the engine is fine. The body will drop off long before the engine dies! I think if you put in what the manufacturer recommends, when he recommends it, there shouldn't be a problem.
An ex-colleague of mine some years ago was intrigued by the advertising stunt whereby they treated an engine with Slick 50 and then drained the oil and drove it for 20 miles or so. He had a scrap Austin 1800 at the time so he drained the oil (without having treated it) and still managed to drive 20 miles before it siezed.
I worked for a company that sold sports cars and specified Mobil 1 when it was first introduced. Suddenly we were awash with warranty claims for high oil consumption. After some thought, Mobil advised us NOT to use Mobil 1 until after the 12,000 mile service (just used ordinary Mobil mineral oil) and the problems went away.
They're the only three bits of evidence I have - except that my road car has done 210,000 miles on Castrol GTX 15/40 (probably got 10/40 when it was new but that was way before my time!) and the engine is fine. The body will drop off long before the engine dies! I think if you put in what the manufacturer recommends, when he recommends it, there shouldn't be a problem.
There's a rather good (albeit lengthy) article about various oil additives at:
www.nwlink.com/~vdb/vw/FAQs/faq.oil.slick50
Makes for some interesting reading.
www.nwlink.com/~vdb/vw/FAQs/faq.oil.slick50
Makes for some interesting reading.
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