Discussion
D-Angle said:
With kit cars being as popular as they are, how come there don't seem to be any kit bikes?
Regards,
Justin
Production bikes are at the peak of performance where as cars aren't.
You can't make a bike much lighter or get much better performance than the production model without spending a lot of money.
A modern sports bike will give you 700bhp/tonne for less than £10k (less than £7k in some cases)
£10k spent on a kit car will give you up to 500bhp/tonne.
Yet £10k spent on a production car will give you about 70bhp/tonne.
Bikes are better value in terms of performance.
Why have I got a kit? I want my bike back!
I concur but although that's not to say that bike owners don't modify their rides to make them a little faster/lighter/whatever because they do. This is possible , as mentioned before, most production bikes are at peak performance _but_ they are built to a price, hence the manufactueer may sometimes use less than top-spec components...which is where the owner steps in and spends to uprate these....
Most of the changes would be the exhaust, shocks/suspension units, brakes and maybe an engine tune or addition of a supecharger/NOS/Turbo...
Other than that the only other parallel that can be drawn I supoose would be with the custom bike builders, but they're not producing one-offs for performance only (although some do) it's mainly for show.
Most of the changes would be the exhaust, shocks/suspension units, brakes and maybe an engine tune or addition of a supecharger/NOS/Turbo...
Other than that the only other parallel that can be drawn I supoose would be with the custom bike builders, but they're not producing one-offs for performance only (although some do) it's mainly for show.
MontyPython said:
A modern sports bike will give you 700bhp/tonne for less than £10k (less than £7k in some cases)
How long have you been away from bikes ex-Biker?
The latest generation exceeds 1000bhp/tonne stock (well the ZX-10 does, the others nearly do).
R1 is about 830bhp/tonne.
CBR6 around 650
Ducati 916 about 700
Don't scare them with the latest spec bikes
They think kit cars are quick!
its not true that you can't buy 'kit' bikes, they just generally aren't advertised as kits as people generally customise and build the bike to their own personal preference, see A bike is Born on discovery home and leisure, mark what's his face built a kit trike.
custom frames are available from lots of companies, buy a bike mag and have a look.
I think the main reason that you don't generally see kits is the fact that a bike chassis/frame is generally less complex than a car chassis and some of the reasons mentioned above, performance, cost, etc.
custom frames are available from lots of companies, buy a bike mag and have a look.
I think the main reason that you don't generally see kits is the fact that a bike chassis/frame is generally less complex than a car chassis and some of the reasons mentioned above, performance, cost, etc.
MontyPython said:
the bike would handle worse and go slower than the donor.
Wow! That's a sweeping generalisation!!!
Harris still make frames for bikes, see:
www.harris-performance.com
I wouldn't judge one until I'd ridden one.
While we're generalising....I firmly believe that the MAJORITY (!!) of bikers today would be shocked if they got on a bike that truly handled. Straight fours which are favoured by so many bike manufacturers put the weight so high up, hence the (relative) improvement in handling of the Ducati's L-twin.
Sadly the born-again crew all want POWER!!
Which in my modest experience means bigger engines more weight and inferior handling on the sort of roads I like to drive.
...and relax.
>> Edited by ferg on Tuesday 10th February 15:06
ferg said:
While we're generalising....I firmly believe that the MAJORITY (!!) of bikers today would be shocked if they got on a bike that truly handled.
Err, are you sure you meant that. ?
Most modern sportbikes handle very well indeed and especially now Honda are going down the 'mass centralisation' route.
I read many road tests etc but I've never read that Ducatis handle better than the other manufacturers, it's always been too close to call and really is down not to the bike, but the rider.
Personally I'm neither in the twin or 4 camp, as triples rule ;-p
I'm with the triples & twins brigade here.
Ferg,
How can you say that about handling and weight.
There is less than 10kgs different in bikes like the GSXR600 and GSXR1000. And if you have seen some of the bike programs on Men & Motors etc you will have seen the likes of John Reynolds showing that modern sports bikes handle nearly as well as their track bread counterparts. Sometimes to a matter of split second lap times.
You really need to have a ride of a modern bike.
BTW I do believe you can do everything you need to on the road with a modern 600cc '4'. Then again, I'm not a born again!
Ferg,
How can you say that about handling and weight.
There is less than 10kgs different in bikes like the GSXR600 and GSXR1000. And if you have seen some of the bike programs on Men & Motors etc you will have seen the likes of John Reynolds showing that modern sports bikes handle nearly as well as their track bread counterparts. Sometimes to a matter of split second lap times.
You really need to have a ride of a modern bike.
BTW I do believe you can do everything you need to on the road with a modern 600cc '4'. Then again, I'm not a born again!
Harris? They generally get used for streetfighters. I've never seen one used on a sports bike. Not since the 80s anyway.
I'm a big streetfighter fan but they're slower than sports bikes.
As for bikes not handling. Uh-huh... yeah, right. The only reason twins 'handle' on the race track is that they're allowed a whacking great capacity advantage. They'll 'handle' again this year as Ducati has the only works team, but they really don't cut it against a multi.
And finally... 600s all you need on the road? Nah! You want at least 1000cc and preferably 4 pots. Unless you've got a thing about rev-limiters ans changing gear.
I'm a big streetfighter fan but they're slower than sports bikes.
As for bikes not handling. Uh-huh... yeah, right. The only reason twins 'handle' on the race track is that they're allowed a whacking great capacity advantage. They'll 'handle' again this year as Ducati has the only works team, but they really don't cut it against a multi.
And finally... 600s all you need on the road? Nah! You want at least 1000cc and preferably 4 pots. Unless you've got a thing about rev-limiters ans changing gear.
Ex-Biker said:
"How can you say that about handling and weight?"
Fairly extensive experimentation....
Ex-Biker said:
"There is less than 10kgs different in bikes like the GSXR600 and GSXR1000."
As far as I'm concerned that's a lot, and where is that lost from in relation to CofG?????
Ex-Biker said:
"John Reynolds showing that modern sports bikes handle nearly as well as their track bread counterparts."
No doubt Mark, but, no disrespect, that's John Reynolds. A racer's finest skill is that he will extract the very most from a machine, regardless of any shortcomings.
Ex-Biker said:
"You really need to have a ride of a modern bike."
I refuse to be insulted by that comment
Ex-Biker said:
"BTW I do believe you can do everything you need to on the road with a modern 600cc '4'."
Please don't miss my point (as if you would)... on a number of occassions I have taken out bikes offered by their proud owners as being "the dog's etc" and been shocked at the mediocre handling, particularly when compared with the awesome acceleration.
Anyway, this thread is about kitbikes isn't it?
MontyPython said:
Harris? They generally get used for streetfighters. I've never seen one used on a sports bike. Not since the 80s anyway.
I'm a big streetfighter fan but they're slower than sports bikes.
Er, sorry, can we change the thread title to "KIT BIKES FOR SPORTSBIKES ONLY" it would appear I've misunderstood.
ferg said:
Harris? They generally get used for streetfighters. I've never seen one used on a sports bike. Not since the 80s anyway.
I'm a big streetfighter fan but they're slower than sports bikes.
Er, sorry, can we change the thread title to "KIT BIKES FOR SPORTSBIKES ONLY" it would appear I've misunderstood.
A bike means sportsbike by default these days. Customs are for the over-50s and Americans. Streetfighters are a strange middle-ground.
Dirt bikes are the growth area now, but you don't get kits for those.
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