Steve’s Really Pleased! But I’m not .

[kitcarman]

Steve’s Really Pleased! But I’m not best pleased with his promotion methods.

ToTalkItCar said:

I’m really pleased…….with the first ‘paper’ version of Totalkitcar and I’ll repeat what I said last week that putting this thing together was not as simple as just stuffing it full of drab filler, repeated adverts, out of date inaccurate information and bloody boring features with out of focus photography that nobody wants to read. We take a pride in what we do; we believe that the kitcar industry deserves proper promotion……we hope you like it.

I wonder if Steve really thought about his snide references to “drab filler, repeated adverts, out of date inaccurate information and bloody boring features”.

Can’t help but think they’re aimed at my magazine. I think he’s very much out of date.

Tell me, is he right. Serious question!

Factually? I think he’s plain wrong on some issues and very much out of date on others. What do you think?

Ethically? My only fear was that a ‘clean’ title might entice my (and Fib’s) readers away because ToTalkItCar might have provided a safe haven from the disputes of recent months. Looks like I need not have concerned myself as Steve didn’t seem see that as a marketing angle.

Balance? He’s decided to pick the scabs on my healing wounds, but why do think he didn’t take a pop at the running score that is Fib’s ‘objective’ reporting?

War? Is there another bun-fight on the horizon?

I sincerely hope not, but what can I do IF this is how Steve’s ‘promotion’ is to proceed? Sad, sad, sad, me thinks.

Den.
It might look like I’m spoiling for another fight, but I’m not. The one I’ve got is one too many. Honest!

>>> Edited by kitcarman on Thursday 11th December 12:44

[jgmadkit]

Den, take it with a pinch of salt, you don't sell twice as many magazines as the competition because it's crap, you sell that many because it's better than the competition and its what people want.

Why do you think it is directed at Kit Car, I thought you and Steve got on

John

www.madabout-kitcars.com

[Guy Humpage]

kitcarman said:

My only fear was that a ‘clean’ title might entice my (and Fib’s) readers away because ToTalkItCar might have provided a safe haven from the disputes

If that were the case, then to be fair, you've only got yourself to blame.

[PetrolTed]

Rise above it and move on...

[spartan_andy]

as Kenny rogers, I think, says "it don't mean your weak if you turn the other cheek"

[peetbee]

The repeated ads charge is a fair one, and one that you've admitted to IIRC.

I thought it was going to be more of an industry review rather than a magazine, a bit like the seperate Guide that Which Kit printed each year.

I have to admit that I've ordered a copy so I guess I'll find out soon enough. At £4.95 and only available via the website I wouldn't think it's going to provide you with too much competition (I'll still buy this month's mags anyway so you've not lost this reader! )

[gdr]

Steve has a point. But on the other hand, I've just had a look at his website and it is a shocker as far as design & user friendliness goes so a bit of pot calling kettle black I think.

[kitcarman]

jgmadkit said:

I thought you and Steve got on

So did I John, which is why I’m more sad than angry. Particularly as it seems that, not for the first time, all his criticism is pointing in my direction.

I’ve been promoting his site in return for a link to mine, which he hasn’t supplied. I went out of my way to place his almanac advertisement in a good position (top right hand corner of an early right hand page) and gave him that ad at an excellent rate.

Never done him down – wish him well – but this shows his feelings. Sad

PetrolTed said:

Rise above it and move on...

Yes, as ever Ted, you’re right

Den

[Ex-Biker]

I don't think it's aimed directly at you, more as a swipe at the whole inustry.

You aren't going to lose sales straight away, but you could have some serious conpetition in the future.

Den YHM

[jgmadkit]

Ex-Biker said:

You aren't going to lose sales straight away, but you could have some serious conpetition in the future.

I doubt it - not enough people visit or know about totalkitcar to make any sort of a dent.

gdr said:

Steve has a point. But on the other hand, I've just had a look at his website and it is a shocker as far as design & user friendliness goes so a bit of pot calling kettle black I think.

LOL - I was just thinking that - better duck for cover now

John

www.madabout-kitcars.com

>> Edited by jgmadkit on Thursday 11th December 16:11

[kitcarman]

Thanks all,

My concern hasn’t anything to do with the truth of what’s said. I agree with Peetbee that there might be (have been ) elements of truth in those words.

Neither is it because I feel threatened, commercially speaking. I agree with John that its sales will be tiny by comparison. For what it’s worth, you might be interested to know that Kit Car only sells about 150 publications per month by mail order (including back issues, guide and SVA guide) even with the benefit of all the promotion given to selling them. If Steve sells 50 a month he’ll be doing really well IMHO. I wouldn’t even notice

My point was to simply ask what on earth he has to gain by stirring up the muck. He's adding cred to Fib's, I reckon. Will his words attract customers to himself? I think not.

I know there’s a danger that someone will speak of pots and kettles here, so I’ll point out that the mudslinging between Fib’s and myself has a VERY long and BITTER history. So far as I’m aware, I’ve done nothing to upset Steve that should prompt him to attack in this way and for no gain.

Not angry, just sad, confused and supprised.

Den

[BigRon]

Den I think the saying that it doesn't mean you're weak if you turn the other cheek is spot on. Reminds me of a certain other publisher who is refusing to be drawn into your argument. I don't think you'll be turning the other cheek somehow.

How come someone you're supporting is having a swipe at you? Does he know something we don't?

[Wacky Racer]

BigRon said:

Den I think the saying that it doesn't mean you're weak if you turn the other cheek is spot on. Reminds me of a certain other publisher who is refusing to be drawn into your argument. I don't think you'll be turning the other cheek somehow. How come someone you're supporting is having a swipe at you? Does he know something we don't?

Put it out of your mind Den, and concentrate on your war with Fibs

Look what happened to Hitler when he invaded Russia and decided to fight on two fronts

>> Edited by Wacky Racer on Thursday 11th December 19:32

[PeetBee]

kitcarman said:

I agree with Peetbee that there might be (have been ) elements of truth in those words.

Den, I'm being truthful there are repeated adverts in KitCar, some full page ads only a couple of pages apart for the same manufacturer. I'm pretty sure it's still in the latest issue too. (will have to dig it out for confirmation), just trying to give constructive feedback, I am a happy customer honest!

But, I don't think that Steve Hole's comments are directed solely at you. I mentioned the Which Kit guide to 'all' the kits avaialable. I bought a copy back in '99 I think and then bought the 2001 edition.

Only the cover and a couple of other pages had changed, the layout and other details hadn't. I know cos I compared them! I thought this was the sort of thing that Steve was refering to.

[kitcarman]

kitcarman said:

He's adding cred to Fib's, I reckon.

As is evidenced by

BigRon said:

How come someone you're supporting is having a swipe at you? Does he know something we don't?

Like I said, I’m

kitcarman said:

Not angry, just sad, confused and supprised. Den

There’s absolutely no suggestion that I’m about to fly off the handle again. In case you missed the point earlier, I kept turning the other cheek and Fib’s kept slapping it. After 5 years of so doing, I lost patience, cracked and hit him back.

Steve is a Hole, not in a Hole and I’d like him to avoid digging for both our sakes. Not a threat, rather a plea.

Steve, leave it out mate. Tell the world how marvellous your new magazine is by all means. I’ll back you up and help you out and sing its praises. But you surely can’t expect my good will if you’re poking at me with your stick, can you?

I’d very much appreciate it if you could help BigRon in respect to the doubt you’ve introduced. He thinks there might be problems under the surface. It’s only natural, I suppose?

Den

[kitcarman]

PeetBee said:

there are repeated adverts in KitCar, some full page ads only a couple of pages apart for the same manufacturer.

You’re right PeetBee, there was a mistake at the printing stage resulting in the YKC ad appearing on pages 101 and 105. Hardly a capital offence is it? There are also duplicated ads from Sureterm and Roadsure (who amongst others pay for two ads) by design. As you’ve indicated, it isn’t a problem.

I wasn’t saying your pointing to the duplicated ads was inaccurate. I know that you’ve never been anything less than honest. My point also concerns the other stuff as well “drab filler, out of date inaccurate information and bloody boring features”. It’s simply “not in the best possible taste”, doesn’t help him and doesn’t bode well for the future. Even IF he’s referring to Which Kit?, it isn’t helpful IMHO.

As I’ve said, I’m not going to react on this occasion, but am pleading with him not to conduct his ‘promotion’ as a certain other person did. Nobody needs it, do they?. Not me, not Fib’s, not him.

Steve. Leave it out mate

Come and see me at the next show. It’s my round

Den

[Wacky Racer]

kitcarman said:

and doesn’t bode well for the future. Even IF he’s referring to Which Kit?, it isn’t helpful IMHO.

Am I reading that right?? Lol!

[kitcarman]

How are you reading it?

Den

[PeetBee]

kitcarman said:

Hardly a capital offence is it?

No, just a comment

kitcarman said:

There are also duplicated ads from Sureterm and Roadsure (who amongst others pay for two ads) by design. As you’ve indicated, it isn’t a problem.

Interesting, I wondered whether that was by advertisers request. Yes I am that sad, I ought to spend more time building than reading

kitcarman said:

Come and see me at the next show. It’s my round

Who me? Thanks

[Wacky Racer]

kitcarman said:

How are you reading it? Den

For a minute I thought you were feeling sorry for Fibs and his mag there....

btw, Den, I was going to ask......

I intend to purchase the Pilgrim Cobra build DVD when it is released, (just for interest you understand) as I missed the Sky programmes the first time round, and I was wondering what your "starring two minute role" was?? Were you in the background trying to look busy...... or with your megaphone attempting to direct the production???