Discussion
First off, I've had a dram or two so apologies if I ramble.
To the point. I'm new here and it appears to me that this is just a (one sided) pissing contest. There is a sole entrant.
I got it 180° wrong until I reread everything late this afternoon.
I thought Den was connected with WK? - apologies.
A few months ago (July ?) I bought KC and read the editorial - which appeared no more than a petty slight on WK?. This put me off KC - a lot !
Shame.
Nope - I'm a clever and educated adult. I can tell the difference between BS and the alternatives. It's my choice.
I suggest giving it up and assuming fair competition (in a business sense).
I realise that I'm new to this so apologies if I'm off the mark.
To be clear, I have no connection or allegiance to any related publication
To the point. I'm new here and it appears to me that this is just a (one sided) pissing contest. There is a sole entrant.
I got it 180° wrong until I reread everything late this afternoon.
I thought Den was connected with WK? - apologies.
A few months ago (July ?) I bought KC and read the editorial - which appeared no more than a petty slight on WK?. This put me off KC - a lot !
Shame.
kitcarman said:
... Aren’t you concerned about the integrity issues too ...
Nope - I'm a clever and educated adult. I can tell the difference between BS and the alternatives. It's my choice.
I suggest giving it up and assuming fair competition (in a business sense).
I realise that I'm new to this so apologies if I'm off the mark.
To be clear, I have no connection or allegiance to any related publication
As a relative newcomer to kit car enthusiasm, I found the threads about the magazines invaluable.
I am a reader of both magazines, and over the last 12 months have been building up a pile of cash that is about to be invested in a car project.
I too read the editorials in Den's magazine, but found the discussion topics on this forum invaluable in helping me make an informed decision as to who gets my hard-earned cash!
Whilst I agree that this forum should primarily be about kit cars, the magazines are part of that industry, and very relevant information can come from the magazine discussions.
At the end of the day (and I have said this before) this is a public internet forum, and if you don't like the thread, don't bother reading it!
Meeja
PS Welcome to PH!
>> Edited by meeja on Tuesday 4th November 09:19
I am a reader of both magazines, and over the last 12 months have been building up a pile of cash that is about to be invested in a car project.
I too read the editorials in Den's magazine, but found the discussion topics on this forum invaluable in helping me make an informed decision as to who gets my hard-earned cash!
Whilst I agree that this forum should primarily be about kit cars, the magazines are part of that industry, and very relevant information can come from the magazine discussions.
At the end of the day (and I have said this before) this is a public internet forum, and if you don't like the thread, don't bother reading it!
Meeja
PS Welcome to PH!
>> Edited by meeja on Tuesday 4th November 09:19
Suggestion for Petrol Ted - could we have a separate forum dedicated to DT's vendetta (or is that crusade?) against PF thereby keeping the Kit Car forum clear for the normal tech queries and general banter that you would expect?
Some of Den's publishing stuff (whether factual or not) is quite amusing but can become a bit tiresome when it drowns out all other Kit Car related topics.
It appears to have driven my pal Numptie to drink and he may never recover sufficiently to invest in that first kit car.
IMHO, both magazines are totally irrelevent anyway ever since the Internet gathered steam. I've only bought one kit mag in the last 10 years (a KC this summer to see what all the fuss was about) - after checking to see how many anti-WK/PF sections it actually had (quite a few indeed) it was promptly binned.
All the info you need on manufacturers, owner builds, suppliers and 2nd hand cars are but a Google click away (and on this forum!). And easier to browse in Company time rather than stealing off to bog for a sly read if you happen to work behind a desk.
>> Edited by gdr on Tuesday 4th November 09:21
Some of Den's publishing stuff (whether factual or not) is quite amusing but can become a bit tiresome when it drowns out all other Kit Car related topics.
It appears to have driven my pal Numptie to drink and he may never recover sufficiently to invest in that first kit car.
IMHO, both magazines are totally irrelevent anyway ever since the Internet gathered steam. I've only bought one kit mag in the last 10 years (a KC this summer to see what all the fuss was about) - after checking to see how many anti-WK/PF sections it actually had (quite a few indeed) it was promptly binned.
All the info you need on manufacturers, owner builds, suppliers and 2nd hand cars are but a Google click away (and on this forum!). And easier to browse in Company time rather than stealing off to bog for a sly read if you happen to work behind a desk.
>> Edited by gdr on Tuesday 4th November 09:21
meeja said:
... I found the threads about the magazines invaluable ...
... but found the discussion topics on this forum invaluable in helping me ...
Please expand. The contributions I've read on this forum about cars are, indeed, brilliant. Information about a magazine's; advertising, sales, printing etc. - I'd say are, at best, superfluous. Having a go at a competitor on a public forum is ... well ... meeja said:
... I agree that this forum should primarily be about kit cars ...
Aye.
meeja said:
... this is a public internet forum, and if you don't like the thread, don't bother reading it!
Agreed - and likewise ...
Numpty,
As it happens, I completely agree with you that in an ideal world the matters of rivalry between two magazine publishers would not merit mention on a forum such as this.
However the differences between Mr Filby and myself cut far deeper than the superficial “mine’s bigger/better than yours” arguments between magazines.
My position is that Which Kit? crossed the line (by a very long distance) when it began the process of distorting the truth for it’s own commercial gain. As I said in my opening salvo.
The balance of the discussions on this forum have concerned my assertions as to exactly how far this probable dishonesty might extend.
When non-existent products are falsely praised, money taken and customers let down, I believe that the issues deserve to be publicly aired on forums such as this. Especially as the exposure hasn’t yet caused the eradication of the practices.
I’d add that if these practices were those of an ordinary bent manufacturer then nobody would have blinked. Because they concern my opponents magazine (if only to the extent that it runs the said advertisements) then my stance is wrongly interpreted.
It was what I saw as ignorant, and unfair comment on this forum that caused me to enter it with a gusto to see the record put straight. It’s been tough, but rewarding, to see the eyes of many being opened to the truth. That truth coming out, I’d suggest, will ultimately save this industry or, by it’s outworking, improve this industry’s standing in the longer term.
I want a long term future, safe for all.
Den.
As it happens, I completely agree with you that in an ideal world the matters of rivalry between two magazine publishers would not merit mention on a forum such as this.
However the differences between Mr Filby and myself cut far deeper than the superficial “mine’s bigger/better than yours” arguments between magazines.
My position is that Which Kit? crossed the line (by a very long distance) when it began the process of distorting the truth for it’s own commercial gain. As I said in my opening salvo.
KitCarJune said:
I accept that it’s not a particularly important issue for readers when a magazine overstates its sales position. But it should be, because if the magazine’s dishonest in little matters then it’s probably dishonest in bigger ones too.
The balance of the discussions on this forum have concerned my assertions as to exactly how far this probable dishonesty might extend.
When non-existent products are falsely praised, money taken and customers let down, I believe that the issues deserve to be publicly aired on forums such as this. Especially as the exposure hasn’t yet caused the eradication of the practices.
I’d add that if these practices were those of an ordinary bent manufacturer then nobody would have blinked. Because they concern my opponents magazine (if only to the extent that it runs the said advertisements) then my stance is wrongly interpreted.
It was what I saw as ignorant, and unfair comment on this forum that caused me to enter it with a gusto to see the record put straight. It’s been tough, but rewarding, to see the eyes of many being opened to the truth. That truth coming out, I’d suggest, will ultimately save this industry or, by it’s outworking, improve this industry’s standing in the longer term.
I want a long term future, safe for all.
Den.
After making my thoughts on this matter known on one of the early threads I realised it was just adding fuel to the fire and so I made a personal resolution not to post on any KC vs WK? type threads.
However, Numptie, your post has made me feel I should break my self imposed silence and at least come out in your support on this one and say - WELL SAID
Den, I'm sure you're a brilliant bloke and clearly have loads to contribute to this site (e.g. the Jag Diff thread yesterday), but speaking for myself at least, I now feel sufficiently warned about WK?'s practices and you can let it drop on here and direct your energies to more positive stuff.
However, Numptie, your post has made me feel I should break my self imposed silence and at least come out in your support on this one and say - WELL SAID
Den, I'm sure you're a brilliant bloke and clearly have loads to contribute to this site (e.g. the Jag Diff thread yesterday), but speaking for myself at least, I now feel sufficiently warned about WK?'s practices and you can let it drop on here and direct your energies to more positive stuff.
Numptie said:
Nope - I'm a clever and educated adult. I can tell the difference between BS and the alternatives. It's my choice.
So you're saying that you saw through ALL the hidden links between WK and the companies they promoted? That, without fail, you knew when Filby was blowing his own trumpet and that Den told you nothing you didn't already know?
To have done that you must be either psychic or do thorough research throughout the industry and the records at Companies House each time you read an article in WK.
Personally I'm happy to let people like Den do that sort of donkey work and pay them for their labours by buying the magazine.
>> Edited by Flintstone on Tuesday 4th November 18:25
Flintstone said:
So you're saying that you saw through ALL the hidden links between WK and the companies they promoted? That, without fail, you knew when Filby was blowing his own trumpet and that Den told you nothing you didn't already know?
To have done that you must be either psychic or do thorough research throughout the industry and the records at Companies House each time you read an article in WK.
Personally I'm happy to let people like Den do that sort of donkey work and pay them for their labours by buying the magazine.
Den 1 Fibs 0
Numptie said:
... I found the threads about the magazines invaluable ...
... but found the discussion topics on this forum invaluable in helping me ...
In making an informed decision as to where a serious amount of my hard earned money is to be invested.
When reading reviews of a product, I want the reviewer to be totally independant, so I get a balanced view.
If the reviewer has a vested interest in the product, then how can I be certain that the product is being reviewed fairly?
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