Discussion
I read with interest the letter from Paul Davis printed on the letters page of Kit Car mag.
Being in a similar situation I can see where he is coming from.
There are lots of kits out there which can be built for less than £10k. Most are '7' type. Others that seem to cost less actually end up costing more when you add the extra's that aren't included in the basic kit price.
What cheap sports kits are there? (bar Banham)
Why can't there be a standard pricing structure?
eg. 3 categories of build.
1. Basic build - where using as much as the donor as poss with the kits and adding the essential bits you come up with a price. A bit like a race build but with no mods (engine etc) and donor interior.
2. Standard build - How the factory believe it should be built, to give the car a good specification, refurbing donor parts yourself, but without major modification.
3. Expert build - Top spec build including minor engine mods/rebuild and using mostly new components.
You could go a stage further with a no expense spared build, but I don't think that matters to most. Presently quotes seem to be somewhere below 'Basic build'.
Good idea to standardise industry prices?
How about magazines doing something similar when testing a car?
Being in a similar situation I can see where he is coming from.
There are lots of kits out there which can be built for less than £10k. Most are '7' type. Others that seem to cost less actually end up costing more when you add the extra's that aren't included in the basic kit price.
What cheap sports kits are there? (bar Banham)
Why can't there be a standard pricing structure?
eg. 3 categories of build.
1. Basic build - where using as much as the donor as poss with the kits and adding the essential bits you come up with a price. A bit like a race build but with no mods (engine etc) and donor interior.
2. Standard build - How the factory believe it should be built, to give the car a good specification, refurbing donor parts yourself, but without major modification.
3. Expert build - Top spec build including minor engine mods/rebuild and using mostly new components.
You could go a stage further with a no expense spared build, but I don't think that matters to most. Presently quotes seem to be somewhere below 'Basic build'.
Good idea to standardise industry prices?
How about magazines doing something similar when testing a car?
Sounds a bally good idea. We are budgeting between 12 and 15K for our Rush build and this is a best guess. This is despite hving the exhaustive price list from Dax. The problem is it doesn't tell you what you actually need bar the basic build packs. They do have the LX spec details which lists "all you need plus a donor car" well you can get an awful lot off a donor but would you want to?
I myself go mor efor the "Mushroom" build spec.
All my invoices are kept in a secret box file and never ever added up! a lot of people I know who have built cars are similar and if we or our partners ever found out the real cost of the cars we have built then they would never repeat the process.
Just worked out that I have spent £350 on fasteners!
If you get the cost of each process as cheap as you can, choose a model that should be able to fall within your maximum budget and then go for it.
How many people do you know that really accurately count the cost of their hobby (and tell the wife)?
Nick
All my invoices are kept in a secret box file and never ever added up! a lot of people I know who have built cars are similar and if we or our partners ever found out the real cost of the cars we have built then they would never repeat the process.
Just worked out that I have spent £350 on fasteners!
If you get the cost of each process as cheap as you can, choose a model that should be able to fall within your maximum budget and then go for it.
How many people do you know that really accurately count the cost of their hobby (and tell the wife)?
Nick
interesting point raised by detail dean in WK this week in "KIT TIPS" Q3 is "how much does it cost to build a kit?" Standard question He then goes on to say ask how much the demonstator cost to build this should give you a good idea how much it will actually cost.
I do agree a standardised pricing structure would make choosing a kit so much easier. Perhaps this is a deliberate ploy by manufacturers to get you to buy their kit and then you spend a small or even lare fortune on the bit from them to make it look good
I do agree a standardised pricing structure would make choosing a kit so much easier. Perhaps this is a deliberate ploy by manufacturers to get you to buy their kit and then you spend a small or even lare fortune on the bit from them to make it look good
Aprisa said:
All my invoices are kept in a secret box file and never ever added up! a lot of people I know who have built cars are similar and if we or our partners ever found out the real cost of the cars we have built then they would never repeat the process.
yep, me too. When I build my Tojeiro I just knew it was the kit I wanted and bought it bit by bit as I could raise the money. I wasn't particularly flush at the time so it came down to day to day decisions like shall I take the girlfried out for a meal or suggest we stay in and watch a video so I would be able to go and buy the fuel filler cap on Saturday morning! To this day I don't know what the car cost me, but I do know it was worth it!
Chris
chris_n said:
All my invoices are kept in a secret box file and never ever added up! a lot of people I know who have built cars are similar and if we or our partners ever found out the real cost of the cars we have built then they would never repeat the process.
To this day I don't know what the car cost me, but I do know it was worth it!
Chris
OK, so you both fit into the 4th category - who cares how much it costs to build!
From the replies of you 2, it seems the industry pricing suits you . . . . well, suits what you let your other half know.
The budget is always the most difficult bit to define, even when you are able to work out the exact cost of the kit (including options).
The refurbishment of the donor can often push the price up significantly. For example do you just chuck the engine & box in cos they were working ok, or do you replace some bits first?
I'm half heartedly looking at Cobras at the moment, so that me & MrsBee can start saving, but if you look at the kit prices for most of the manufacturers it would appear I can put one on the road for about £5k. I suspect this would not be the case
I mean why is the windscreen not part of the standard kit? You're going to need one so it should be included. I'm sure there's other stuff like door handles, boot locks etc that aren't a 'standard' part.
I'll get off the
now
The refurbishment of the donor can often push the price up significantly. For example do you just chuck the engine & box in cos they were working ok, or do you replace some bits first?
I'm half heartedly looking at Cobras at the moment, so that me & MrsBee can start saving, but if you look at the kit prices for most of the manufacturers it would appear I can put one on the road for about £5k. I suspect this would not be the case
I mean why is the windscreen not part of the standard kit? You're going to need one so it should be included. I'm sure there's other stuff like door handles, boot locks etc that aren't a 'standard' part.
I'll get off the
now Ex-biker
I certainly do care how much it costs to build in a strange sort of way.
Having built a few kits before I know roughly how much margin need over and above the kit price to "finish it off". The choice of kit has been determined by my financial situation at the time.
What I mean is that most people (mainly men) in my experience do not cost their hobby, as Chris said they adjust their lifestyle to accomodate each cost that arises usually looking only a few weeks ahead.
If we live like this then it is not good for the health to look too closely at the total cost of a project that has been completed, you will never get the figures to make sense and work out where the money came from
It has taken me to my mid forties to afford the Phantom, yes it is expensive but with that comes exclusivity and hopefully a vastly improved re-sale value. Get the experience on a mechanically simpler more economical kit and work up from there.
I've got a horse mad wife and daughter to keep as well, pretty obvious why I don't have budgets
Nick
I certainly do care how much it costs to build in a strange sort of way.
Having built a few kits before I know roughly how much margin need over and above the kit price to "finish it off". The choice of kit has been determined by my financial situation at the time.
What I mean is that most people (mainly men) in my experience do not cost their hobby, as Chris said they adjust their lifestyle to accomodate each cost that arises usually looking only a few weeks ahead.
If we live like this then it is not good for the health to look too closely at the total cost of a project that has been completed, you will never get the figures to make sense and work out where the money came from
It has taken me to my mid forties to afford the Phantom, yes it is expensive but with that comes exclusivity and hopefully a vastly improved re-sale value. Get the experience on a mechanically simpler more economical kit and work up from there.
I've got a horse mad wife and daughter to keep as well, pretty obvious why I don't have budgets
Nick
Ex-Biker said:
well, suits what you let your other half know.
Although I haven't started a project yet (as some of you are aware, I'm still bouncing a few ideas around!) The Management usually drops a "Roughly how much?" into the conversations now and again. My answer is always very vague, and then she usually hits back with "Funny.... I would have thought more like £xxxx".... And she is usually pretty damn close!
Must hide my WK and KC mags better!
My spending does get quite a thorough audit from the keeper of the purse strings. But it was her who suggested I get an older car, hence the Volvo, and have money to build a kit. Also a joint build is allowing us a certain "room for truth" between our respective better halves. Our hope is they don't compare notes to closely
Meeja, may have mentioned before my other half quite fancies the idea if not the practice of a kit car ie me keep disappearing down the garage as soon as the ankle biters are in bed. To be fair she did buy me my first and current kit(they are one and the same) however it was only £200 and I've got to pay for everything else
Having said that I have given up smoking to pay for it
Having said that I have given up smoking to pay for it
Ah well, the general concenous seems to think the industry has it right then? We'll give you a chassis and a few bits of bodywork, then let you just get on with it.
I really don't think it helps new converts, who come in the belief that you can build a fast good looking car yourself for a fraction of the cost of a 'real' one.
I know a Phantom will cost a fraction of a Ferrari and an Ultima hundreds of thousands less than a McLaren F1, but we are talking cheap cars here. Things that newbe's (like me) want to build.
I'm all for a little poetic licence when telling your partner the costs, but what if you have saved £7k and want a kit. Do you start looking for ones that the manufacturers list as costing £2-3k so you know there's enough left to get the car finished.
If this is the case, it's no wonder why so many kits remain unfinished.
>> Edited by Ex-Biker on Wednesday 22 October 13:50
I really don't think it helps new converts, who come in the belief that you can build a fast good looking car yourself for a fraction of the cost of a 'real' one.
I know a Phantom will cost a fraction of a Ferrari and an Ultima hundreds of thousands less than a McLaren F1, but we are talking cheap cars here. Things that newbe's (like me) want to build.
I'm all for a little poetic licence when telling your partner the costs, but what if you have saved £7k and want a kit. Do you start looking for ones that the manufacturers list as costing £2-3k so you know there's enough left to get the car finished.
If this is the case, it's no wonder why so many kits remain unfinished.
>> Edited by Ex-Biker on Wednesday 22 October 13:50
[quote=Ex-Biker]If this is the case, it's no wonder why so many kits remain unfinished.
How many sets of unused Golfclubs lie in garages?
I don't think unfinished kits are usually down to economics, more usually a lack of time/motivation and getting bogged down with a few practical issues. In these days of instant help I think you will find a far greater % of kits bought are taking to the roads. Some are bought on a whim and laid to one side as with many other hobbies.
Remember that a kit can be put on the road relativeley cheaply and then viewed as an ongoing project with evn total re-builds not uncommon by original builders. I never stop adding to any of my cars or bikes, kits never allow you to be bored with what you have as it can always be made better!
As I have said, kits are a hobby, how many sports or pastimes are costed down to the last pound? speak to a Sailor, Golfer or Skier and ask if they took every aspect of their hobby on board before committing
Nick
How many sets of unused Golfclubs lie in garages?
I don't think unfinished kits are usually down to economics, more usually a lack of time/motivation and getting bogged down with a few practical issues. In these days of instant help I think you will find a far greater % of kits bought are taking to the roads. Some are bought on a whim and laid to one side as with many other hobbies.
Remember that a kit can be put on the road relativeley cheaply and then viewed as an ongoing project with evn total re-builds not uncommon by original builders. I never stop adding to any of my cars or bikes, kits never allow you to be bored with what you have as it can always be made better!
As I have said, kits are a hobby, how many sports or pastimes are costed down to the last pound? speak to a Sailor, Golfer or Skier and ask if they took every aspect of their hobby on board before committing
Nick
Aprisa said:
How many sets of unused Golfclubs lie in garages?
As I have said, kits are a hobby, how many sports or pastimes are costed down to the last pound? speak to a Sailor, Golfer or Skier and ask if they took every aspect of their hobby on board before committing
Nick
I bet these golf clubs were used a few times before gathering dust in said garages. I bet some of the people that sell kits due to lack of funds would love to have been able to drive them first.
Does a golfer go to the golf shop and get told 'your clubs will cost £xxx sir'. Then when he picks them up he still needs a 9 iron, putter and bag to put 'em in?
With any hobby, you go into it knowing what you will need to start off with. A point from which you can start a proper collection etc. This information is readily available too. With a kit you need a degree in mathematics just to get the cost of a rolling chassis.
I know it's a hobby, and generally it's a process of continual improvement, just as your average boy racer continually 'improves' (I use that loosely) his Nova. The boy racer had a start point for his costs though, ie. the base car cost.
Aprisa said:
Remember that a kit can be put on the road relativeley cheaply and then viewed as an ongoing project with even total re-builds not uncommon by original builders. I never stop adding to any of my cars or bikes, kits never allow you to be bored with what you have as it can always be made better!
There's a saying* that 'kit cars are never finished, you'll always find something else to do or add'.
* If no-one's heard it, that's cos I've just made up!
Ex-biker
I agree in parts with your comments but, when you buy a set of clubs are you then all set to play? maybe you can go for a hack about with your mates but really you are on the first rung of an expensive ladder leading to Pringle Jumper wearing and Standing for Committee!
Building the kit IS part of the hobby (to some it is the only part and they are not interested in driving) any kit however obtained gets you on the ladder, if you are determined to keep costs to a minimum you can go the full lo-cost route and fabricate most of the car yourself, beyond my ability and patience I'm afraid.
If the driving part is your main aim then its better to go and buy a pre-built kit of a high standard, in the lower price range they are considerably cheaper than building yourself (IMHO)
Nick
I agree in parts with your comments but, when you buy a set of clubs are you then all set to play? maybe you can go for a hack about with your mates but really you are on the first rung of an expensive ladder leading to Pringle Jumper wearing and Standing for Committee!
Building the kit IS part of the hobby (to some it is the only part and they are not interested in driving) any kit however obtained gets you on the ladder, if you are determined to keep costs to a minimum you can go the full lo-cost route and fabricate most of the car yourself, beyond my ability and patience I'm afraid.
If the driving part is your main aim then its better to go and buy a pre-built kit of a high standard, in the lower price range they are considerably cheaper than building yourself (IMHO)
Nick
Aprisa
I think we can both see where each is coming from.
I didn't start this thread to go deeply into my issues, but more to find how poeple feel about how vague prices really are.
Me personally: I want to be able to say 'I built this'.
However I have difficulty with '7' type cars (fitting in etc), don't really like the look or how common they are and found it very difficult to find a reasonably priced 'other' type.
Even with this, the company say you can build it for around £7500. After studying the brochures & price list, this may be possible if you don't fasten the panels on, find a free donor, except whatever finish it comes with, use all donor parts and make a few bits yourself (from the panels of the donor). I recon a little under £9k will get me a good base, good enough to show off to others and ready for future improvement.
Back to the point of vague pricing and seeing some uniformity in the structure.
I think we can both see where each is coming from.
I didn't start this thread to go deeply into my issues, but more to find how poeple feel about how vague prices really are.
Me personally: I want to be able to say 'I built this'.
However I have difficulty with '7' type cars (fitting in etc), don't really like the look or how common they are and found it very difficult to find a reasonably priced 'other' type.
Even with this, the company say you can build it for around £7500. After studying the brochures & price list, this may be possible if you don't fasten the panels on, find a free donor, except whatever finish it comes with, use all donor parts and make a few bits yourself (from the panels of the donor). I recon a little under £9k will get me a good base, good enough to show off to others and ready for future improvement.
Back to the point of vague pricing and seeing some uniformity in the structure.
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