supercharging pinto engine!!!
Discussion
hi people
so has anybody done it? or possibley a turbo conversion? although i always liked the idea of a supercharger over a turbo, and i dont want to mess about with the exhaust! but if theres a suitible turbo manifold that would bolt onto my engine that could persuade me to go down the turbo route!
so anybody got any ideas on how to do this? looks like it'll probabley have to be mounted on the exhaust side of the engine with some pipework over the engine to the inlet manifold, as there seems to be far to much in the way on that side.
is the eaton m45 mini supercharger the best to go for, or are there better ones? although bear in mind im looking at around the £100 mark!
and would i have to get a crankshaft pully made up or is there anybody that supplies them or even makes them? or indeed is there any way i could knock one up myself (without a lathe!).
so has anybody done it? or possibley a turbo conversion? although i always liked the idea of a supercharger over a turbo, and i dont want to mess about with the exhaust! but if theres a suitible turbo manifold that would bolt onto my engine that could persuade me to go down the turbo route!so anybody got any ideas on how to do this? looks like it'll probabley have to be mounted on the exhaust side of the engine with some pipework over the engine to the inlet manifold, as there seems to be far to much in the way on that side.
is the eaton m45 mini supercharger the best to go for, or are there better ones? although bear in mind im looking at around the £100 mark!
and would i have to get a crankshaft pully made up or is there anybody that supplies them or even makes them? or indeed is there any way i could knock one up myself (without a lathe!).
Depends what you mean by 'best'. The Eaton is a Roots type blower. Twin-screws are more efficient (but also more expensive). You'll need to get a pulley and mounting brackets made up if nobody does a kit for the blower you chose. These are normally CNC machined - it's not something you can do yourself.
ETA: according to Eaton's site, the M45 displacement is 0.75 l/rev (probably not enough). What size is your engine and how much boost do you intend to run?
I'd also recommend Forced Induction Performance Tuning by Graham Bell (Amazon).
ETA: according to Eaton's site, the M45 displacement is 0.75 l/rev (probably not enough). What size is your engine and how much boost do you intend to run?
I'd also recommend Forced Induction Performance Tuning by Graham Bell (Amazon).
Edited by LotusNova on Sunday 2nd November 07:46
An M045 would work on a 2l as long as you don't want too much boost. It's been done on a Zetec (as well as many other 2l motors). Lots of issues, but you will need to rev it toward the high end of it;s range, but that's not a huge problem as long as you put some charge cooling in place. I've heard of someone using one an a 3l but they must be revving the nads off it to get any boost, and charge temps would be very high.
I'm almost at the end of fitting an M90 onto an Alfa 3l at the moment. An M62 would probably have been better...but time will tell.
Advice already given above is sound though...get reading!! AG Bell's book is good.
I'm almost at the end of fitting an M90 onto an Alfa 3l at the moment. An M62 would probably have been better...but time will tell.
Advice already given above is sound though...get reading!! AG Bell's book is good.
its a 2 liter pinto, i have got old book about supercharging here somewhere so looks like i'll be digging that up to be honest im not sure how much extra hp i'm looking for? somewhere between 20-50 i'd imagine on what im going to assume is a standard 100hp engine, (it could well be more than that as i belive the cams been changed and its got a tubeular manifold???) although extra would always be nice 
i'm not sure how much my engine would take with most of it being standard?
i was looking at the m45 as in the article in pcc it said 'you want to use the smallest unit which will do the job your looking for, that way its running in its most efficient zoneand your getting the best all round performance' ???
but would it be better to go up a size to the m62 just to be on the safe side!? just a question though, as superchargers draw power from the engine, i assume a bigger supercharger draws more power? so at some point will you see the power go down with the bigger supercharger youve put on???
to be honest im not sure how much extra hp i'm looking for? somewhere between 20-50 i'd imagine on what im going to assume is a standard 100hp engine, (it could well be more than that as i belive the cams been changed and its got a tubeular manifold???) although extra would always be nice i'm not sure how much my engine would take with most of it being standard?i was looking at the m45 as in the article in pcc it said 'you want to use the smallest unit which will do the job your looking for, that way its running in its most efficient zoneand your getting the best all round performance' ???
but would it be better to go up a size to the m62 just to be on the safe side!? just a question though, as superchargers draw power from the engine, i assume a bigger supercharger draws more power? so at some point will you see the power go down with the bigger supercharger youve put on???
the M45 should work. mini guys have pushed these to over 250bhp! thats alot more air than you want to move.. the m62 are used on 2.0ltr unit (GM's Ecotec in the US) and work pretty well but thats on a 2.0 16valve engine so its going to flow more than the pinto.
I think a turbo conversion would be nice! would take a custom manifold though....i think the are loads of guys in the US with XRTI Trubos. might be worth having a look on at them to see what they use. plus you might beable to pick up parts cheap!
by the way what car is it going in??
Chris.
I think a turbo conversion would be nice! would take a custom manifold though....i think the are loads of guys in the US with XRTI Trubos. might be worth having a look on at them to see what they use. plus you might beable to pick up parts cheap!
by the way what car is it going in??
Chris.
Edited by chuntington101 on Tuesday 4th November 07:36
There are lots of factors to consider. A good exhasut system for an aspirated car is more or less irrelevant once you go blown. As long as the back pressure isn't too high, it'll be fine. Cam-wise, some overlap is good, lots is bad as you'll end up losing boost as an Eaton compresses in the inlet so you end up blowing it all into an open pipe. How much depends on the engine. Cooling the charge is important - don't neglect it as you'll lose power AND increase risk of detonation. Water injection is by all accounts amazing at allowing you to run more boost and/or more timing which means more power.
An M045 would work fine I think for your 2l. FWIW, it's probably what I would pick for a moderate level of boost for a 2l. An M62 is probably OK as well, but you'd find boost dropping off a bit at lower revs as you'd be running it slower. This is where I'm at with an M90 on a 3l with a 1.6:1 drive ratio.
If you wanted (very!) roughly 7psi, then you'd want to run an M045 at about 2.1 x crank speed. That's well inside the spec for the blower revs-wise on a pinto.
Liek most things, it's simple in principle but complicated in practice. Read what you can, see what others have done then just suck it and see. It's what I'm doing anyway
BTW, mine goes onto the rollers tomorrow so I'll post up my results on Thurs, good or bad.
An M045 would work fine I think for your 2l. FWIW, it's probably what I would pick for a moderate level of boost for a 2l. An M62 is probably OK as well, but you'd find boost dropping off a bit at lower revs as you'd be running it slower. This is where I'm at with an M90 on a 3l with a 1.6:1 drive ratio.
If you wanted (very!) roughly 7psi, then you'd want to run an M045 at about 2.1 x crank speed. That's well inside the spec for the blower revs-wise on a pinto.
Liek most things, it's simple in principle but complicated in practice. Read what you can, see what others have done then just suck it and see. It's what I'm doing anyway
BTW, mine goes onto the rollers tomorrow so I'll post up my results on Thurs, good or bad.
grimfandango said:
i was looking at the m45 as in the article in pcc it said 'you want to use the smallest unit which will do the job your looking for, that way its running in its most efficient zoneand your getting the best all round performance' ???
Nah, that's rubbish. If you want the blower which is most efficient under the conditions you're using it, then choose the blower that is most efficient under those conditions. In general with the Eatons the bigger blowers run slower are more efficient than the smaller blowers run faster with the same net flow rate.CorseChris said:
An M045 would work fine I think for your 2l. FWIW, it's probably what I would pick for a moderate level of boost for a 2l. An M62 is probably OK as well, but you'd find boost dropping off a bit at lower revs as you'd be running it slower. This is where I'm at with an M90 on a 3l with a 1.6:1 drive ratio.
If you wanted (very!) roughly 7psi, then you'd want to run an M045 at about 2.1 x crank speed. That's well inside the spec for the blower revs-wise on a pinto.
Liek most things, it's simple in principle but complicated in practice. Read what you can, see what others have done then just suck it and see. It's what I'm doing anyway
BTW, mine goes onto the rollers tomorrow so I'll post up my results on Thurs, good or bad.
thanksIf you wanted (very!) roughly 7psi, then you'd want to run an M045 at about 2.1 x crank speed. That's well inside the spec for the blower revs-wise on a pinto.
Liek most things, it's simple in principle but complicated in practice. Read what you can, see what others have done then just suck it and see. It's what I'm doing anyway
BTW, mine goes onto the rollers tomorrow so I'll post up my results on Thurs, good or bad.
that was sort of what i was aiming at, although i was going to leave charge cooling for a later project, although its probabley best to do it all at once as these things often are;) intercoolers dont seem to be dear so should be able to get one for not to much BoRED S2upid said:
It seems like a lot of time, effort and possibly money for not much gain. I was thinking the same on a classic mini, how to increase BHP on the old engine a mechanice friend of mine simply said why continue with the old engine change it to a modern unit.
originally i intended to swap the engine. v6 cosworth was probabley favorite as it could be picked up for a few hundred quid and should more or less bolt straight on, but then i found out it wont, and i would need new bellhousing and clutch bits. not to mention ive got to buy a engine go and fetch it, borrow a lift ect. so chances are i would never acctually get round to it. so getting a cheap super charger and messing about with brackets and bits of pipe is probabley more realistic. although it may be a project for another day. it'll kick out way more power than a supercharger would on my pinto. plus i'll have a spare supercharger Hello grimfandango
I bought an Eatom M45 last week which was used on a Mercedes SLK, I'm going to build it on a Ford Pinto 2.0 ohc engine. The engine is placed in a VM77 (not a lot of space to build it in). What is your progress? Are you still bussy? Maybe it is possible exchange know-how during our building progress.
Regards,
Frank
I bought an Eatom M45 last week which was used on a Mercedes SLK, I'm going to build it on a Ford Pinto 2.0 ohc engine. The engine is placed in a VM77 (not a lot of space to build it in). What is your progress? Are you still bussy? Maybe it is possible exchange know-how during our building progress.
Regards,
Frank
grimfandango said:
hi people so has anybody done it? or possibley a turbo conversion? although i always liked the idea of a supercharger over a turbo, and i dont want to mess about with the exhaust! but if theres a suitible turbo manifold that would bolt onto my engine that could persuade me to go down the turbo route!
so anybody got any ideas on how to do this? looks like it'll probabley have to be mounted on the exhaust side of the engine with some pipework over the engine to the inlet manifold, as there seems to be far to much in the way on that side.
is the eaton m45 mini supercharger the best to go for, or are there better ones? although bear in mind im looking at around the £100 mark!
and would i have to get a crankshaft pully made up or is there anybody that supplies them or even makes them? or indeed is there any way i could knock one up myself (without a lathe!).
Ford in the USA made a 2.3 litre Turbocharged Pinto, and fitted it in a variety of cars but most commonly in the Mustang SVO, Mercury Merkur XR4ti and Thunderbird. Tuners there now make upwards of 450bhp from these units which are an interesting alternative to the ubiquitous Cossie. The stock engines made around 180bhp so you may not need any further tuning if that sort of power is what you wanted. Obviously if you can pick up the stock manifolds etc then you can bolt these up to your engine easily. Modern ECUs and wastegates can help eliminate lag too. so has anybody done it? or possibley a turbo conversion? although i always liked the idea of a supercharger over a turbo, and i dont want to mess about with the exhaust! but if theres a suitible turbo manifold that would bolt onto my engine that could persuade me to go down the turbo route!so anybody got any ideas on how to do this? looks like it'll probabley have to be mounted on the exhaust side of the engine with some pipework over the engine to the inlet manifold, as there seems to be far to much in the way on that side.
is the eaton m45 mini supercharger the best to go for, or are there better ones? although bear in mind im looking at around the £100 mark!
and would i have to get a crankshaft pully made up or is there anybody that supplies them or even makes them? or indeed is there any way i could knock one up myself (without a lathe!).
http://www.stinger-performance.com/
http://www.theturboforums.com/turbo_links.php
If you are only after 150bhp-200bhp though, normally aspirated tuning is easier, and a modern engine swap even more logical.
My normally aspirated Vauxhall XE makes 240bhp on 45DCOEs. More than enough for a 7" wide tyre on the street. Totally reliable, no points to get wet, always starts, makes big power and torque from very low down.
But don't let anyone put you off if you really want to try supercharging, do it!
Edited by JenkinsComp on Monday 29th December 11:28
wasn't there someone in PPC doinf a turbo Pinto running carbs?? i will have a look tonight and see what i can find...
anyway he was running a mild ish pinto with a set of 45 (i think) carbs. he ran a very rare turbo manifold but that could be easily replaced by a thick waled stainless log style manifold.
you could replace the turbo with a roots style blower with a blow of valve after the supercharger....
Chris.
anyway he was running a mild ish pinto with a set of 45 (i think) carbs. he ran a very rare turbo manifold but that could be easily replaced by a thick waled stainless log style manifold.
you could replace the turbo with a roots style blower with a blow of valve after the supercharger....
Chris.
Do not know about the Pinto specifically, but someone once told me most cars can take 6 psi boost on standard internals. Not going to give you much power at that, and he could have been talking cobblers. But if the option is unknown condition old Ford internals, i would not trust them even if it does run sweetly. It's so simple on a Pinto, i would lower the CR and fit decent pistons anyway. Think you would be better asking on a Ford forum, sure a few there would have done the job. Still rekon if you genuinley only want 150bhp you are barking up the wrong tree, i would imagine fuel consumption / reliability / weight would be far inferior to a £200 2.0 Zetec lifted out of a scrappie, or indeed you own engine tuned conventionally. Have you considered bike carbs and a megasquirt? Cheap.
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