Anyone seen this?
Discussion
Now people, don't laugh too hard. It looks like they are a touch sour after a failed attempt to enter the market.
www.northlightsportscars.com
www.northlightsportscars.com
I think it’s really sad!
Still, they won’t be at Donnington which from my jaundiced perspective is the only good bit I could find amongst this misinformed twaddle.
Question is how do they describe their product (even to readers of EVO) if not a Kit Car?
Over the years we’ve had all sorts of factions trying to give us a new name to change our image but unless the products themselves change the image will not. To quote Bart “a rose is still a rose by any other name” and so also is a turd. Last month’s Kit Car contained an industry review in which we pointed to much to be encouraged about.
We don’t need a name change. We need to praise what is good and criticise the bad and a few years down the line we’d be purged of the junk-yard image. If these sad fellows put themselves forward as a good kit car company, I believe they’ll do better than to pretend to be what they’re not. What are they if they aren’t good kit makers – bad car makers that’s what. I know which image I’d prefer. Apart from other considerations, nobody knows what their product will be like until it’s made anyway. They might be bad by both criteria.
If these lads want my advice, they should accept what they might become and make the most of it. By working with people like me there might be a chance of this industry picking itself up by its shoelaces. What’s for certain is that they won’t get any help from EVO or Autotrader for that matter, save to help them empty their bank account.
Still, they won’t be at Donnington which from my jaundiced perspective is the only good bit I could find amongst this misinformed twaddle.
Question is how do they describe their product (even to readers of EVO) if not a Kit Car?
Over the years we’ve had all sorts of factions trying to give us a new name to change our image but unless the products themselves change the image will not. To quote Bart “a rose is still a rose by any other name” and so also is a turd. Last month’s Kit Car contained an industry review in which we pointed to much to be encouraged about.
We don’t need a name change. We need to praise what is good and criticise the bad and a few years down the line we’d be purged of the junk-yard image. If these sad fellows put themselves forward as a good kit car company, I believe they’ll do better than to pretend to be what they’re not. What are they if they aren’t good kit makers – bad car makers that’s what. I know which image I’d prefer. Apart from other considerations, nobody knows what their product will be like until it’s made anyway. They might be bad by both criteria.
If these lads want my advice, they should accept what they might become and make the most of it. By working with people like me there might be a chance of this industry picking itself up by its shoelaces. What’s for certain is that they won’t get any help from EVO or Autotrader for that matter, save to help them empty their bank account.
Word of advice for the peeps at Northlight....don't bother doing anything with the K3/4 or whatever you're calling it now. It's a car that's had it's day, no more no less. It's outdated, too small and just doesn't cut it nowadays. You're onto a loser whichever way you want to market it.
This is a fundamental problem with the kit car industry, the same cars hang around for far too long. Typical scenario is >car created, original maker trades for a few years >car sold to another company that tries to make a go of things, promises it's going to be better than ever > car sold to long time fan builder of marque, guys never been in business before but reckons he can make a living out of a car that's now 10 years old > car makes an appearance bi-annually at a random show under new ownership....and so on and so on.
It makes a mokery out of the industry when the same car is known by 5 different names. No wonder the industry is never taken seriously, even the likes of Westfield still struggle for credibility among the mainstream press and they have done nothing wrong!
Just my 2p.
This is a fundamental problem with the kit car industry, the same cars hang around for far too long. Typical scenario is >car created, original maker trades for a few years >car sold to another company that tries to make a go of things, promises it's going to be better than ever > car sold to long time fan builder of marque, guys never been in business before but reckons he can make a living out of a car that's now 10 years old > car makes an appearance bi-annually at a random show under new ownership....and so on and so on.
It makes a mokery out of the industry when the same car is known by 5 different names. No wonder the industry is never taken seriously, even the likes of Westfield still struggle for credibility among the mainstream press and they have done nothing wrong!
Just my 2p.
jonnyhilfiger said:
even the likes of Westfield still struggle for credibility among the mainstream press and they have done nothing wrong!
That - as I've said before and will no doubt say again - is because the mainstream press (and I include evo in that) are generally a bunch of autosnobs.
Sports car production has always been a precarious business, whether as a 'production' or kit manufacturer.
The UK's kit car industry may have its problems, but it still enables us to have a wider range of original design sports cars on offer than any other country in the world. But don't expect it to get any support from a bunch of hacks who probably don't know a ring spanner from a box spanner.
And when it comes to companies producing old designs - well, Caterham don't seem to do badly out of it!
As for Northlight - well, if they think they can make a go of selling 50 cars a year for a few hundred pounds profit on each I don't hold out much hope for their survival.
I don't understand this, didn't they research the market they were entering before buying the rights to the K3?
I quite liked the K3 er K4, but did think it a bit strange that a company would buy the design from GTM (who were going to continue manufacturing effectively the K3's replacement) without knowing who was going to buy it.
Oh well.
>> Edited by PeetBee on Sunday 31st August 22:32
I quite liked the K3 er K4, but did think it a bit strange that a company would buy the design from GTM (who were going to continue manufacturing effectively the K3's replacement) without knowing who was going to buy it.
Oh well.
>> Edited by PeetBee on Sunday 31st August 22:32
Well, if they want to "cut it with the big boys" I expect they'll be getting it type approved then! That's one thing that sets the kit car industry apart from the mainstream industry. I guess the full European jobbie will set them back about £1/4M or they could at least join the likes of TVR and get some UK Low Volume approvals at about £40k.
The problem is that while it's perfectly true that major manufacturers don't make much margin on each of their cars, they do make rather a lot of cars! As such they won't get reamed for the price of components like a small volume manufacturer does. Lots of people seem to think that exotic cars are a surefire way to make a fortune and that they're all profit. I strongly believe that nothing could be further from the truth. Over the years I've seen plenty of "ultimate supercar" attempts come and go as well as periodic attempts to revive old names (like Jensen) by the odd consortium of businessmen. They all seem to give up when they see just how little profit there is!
The problem is that while it's perfectly true that major manufacturers don't make much margin on each of their cars, they do make rather a lot of cars! As such they won't get reamed for the price of components like a small volume manufacturer does. Lots of people seem to think that exotic cars are a surefire way to make a fortune and that they're all profit. I strongly believe that nothing could be further from the truth. Over the years I've seen plenty of "ultimate supercar" attempts come and go as well as periodic attempts to revive old names (like Jensen) by the odd consortium of businessmen. They all seem to give up when they see just how little profit there is!
I agree with the parts point.
No kit car company can buy the bits at the right price so as to be able to sell the right quantity of cars. They can't get the parts at the right price because......they don't sell enough cars.
Anybody got an answer to that?
BTW Do you have any idea what price the big boys pay for a power steering rack? I use this as an example because I have an exact price from two years ago. Bet nobody on this forum would get even close if asked to estimate?
No kit car company can buy the bits at the right price so as to be able to sell the right quantity of cars. They can't get the parts at the right price because......they don't sell enough cars.
Anybody got an answer to that?
BTW Do you have any idea what price the big boys pay for a power steering rack? I use this as an example because I have an exact price from two years ago. Bet nobody on this forum would get even close if asked to estimate?
I agree with much of what's been said already, so I won't rake over old ground. I do have a handful of points I'd like to make . . .
Every major car manufacturer in the whole wide world, with the singular exception of Toyota, is currently operating at a loss. Some of them, notably Ford, operate at levels that equate to the national debts of some third world countries. Mass producing thousands of cars against small financial margins only works when the figures are in black.
Having worked on the fringes of the kit car (or should that be "component car"?) industry for about fifteen years I've noticed a few things to be true. One is that it is possible to make a profit when your production target is relatively small - say less than 50 units per year. Above this figure, and through to around 200 units, there's a very grey area where massive investment is required over a three-to-five year period to cover the growth necessary to meet the additional costs of an expanded workforce. There's a sort of break-even mountain that everyone has to climb. Unfortunately, this is exactly the level of production that faces a majority of kit car manufacturers, and many fail as a result - especially where the model concerned occupies a niche market and finding customers becomes progressively harder.
When Marcos went through a rough patch a few years ago, and rights to manufacture the Mantis were bought by the Dutch 'consortium' of Eurotech /Cor Euser, they discovered that every car to leave the factory was actually losing the company several thousand pounds. There was no profit whatsoever. While I believe some racecars may have been produced, no road cars to that design have been made since then.
Why are Northlight calling the K4 the Hurricane? I remember the Hurricane as quite an attractive Triumph Spitfire-based Aston Martin lookalike.
Won't they have to get type approval anyway, if they're going down their chosen route?
Every major car manufacturer in the whole wide world, with the singular exception of Toyota, is currently operating at a loss. Some of them, notably Ford, operate at levels that equate to the national debts of some third world countries. Mass producing thousands of cars against small financial margins only works when the figures are in black.
Having worked on the fringes of the kit car (or should that be "component car"?) industry for about fifteen years I've noticed a few things to be true. One is that it is possible to make a profit when your production target is relatively small - say less than 50 units per year. Above this figure, and through to around 200 units, there's a very grey area where massive investment is required over a three-to-five year period to cover the growth necessary to meet the additional costs of an expanded workforce. There's a sort of break-even mountain that everyone has to climb. Unfortunately, this is exactly the level of production that faces a majority of kit car manufacturers, and many fail as a result - especially where the model concerned occupies a niche market and finding customers becomes progressively harder.
When Marcos went through a rough patch a few years ago, and rights to manufacture the Mantis were bought by the Dutch 'consortium' of Eurotech /Cor Euser, they discovered that every car to leave the factory was actually losing the company several thousand pounds. There was no profit whatsoever. While I believe some racecars may have been produced, no road cars to that design have been made since then.
Why are Northlight calling the K4 the Hurricane? I remember the Hurricane as quite an attractive Triumph Spitfire-based Aston Martin lookalike.
Won't they have to get type approval anyway, if they're going down their chosen route?
Thank God I read this thead before getting carried away!
I have spoken to the liquidators of Midas cars over the past few weeks and was seriously considering making an offer. Probably would have ended in tears and an exact replica of the scenario above.
Shows I've got too much time on my hands.
Nick
I have spoken to the liquidators of Midas cars over the past few weeks and was seriously considering making an offer. Probably would have ended in tears and an exact replica of the scenario above.
Shows I've got too much time on my hands.
Nick
kitcarman said:
BTW Do you have any idea what price the big boys pay for a power steering rack? I use this as an example because I have an exact price from two years ago. Bet nobody on this forum would get even close if asked to estimate?
About £29 ? Do I get a copy of the mag if I get close ? :-)
Busa_Rush said:
BTW Do you have any idea what price the big boys pay for a power steering rack? I use this as an example because I have an exact price from two years ago. Bet nobody on this forum would get even close if asked to estimate?
About £29 ? Do I get a copy of the mag if I get close ? :-)
Not being that far out!
You're not even close.
I'd be a bit surprised if every major manufacturer paid the same sort of price for every rack they took! I guess the really high volume boys might get down to the £30 mark but I'd be surprised if the likes of Rover or Jaguar are paying as little as that. I was once told by a rep from a company making steering bits that Mr. Ford would typically put out a tender for a part and the various suppliers would bid. The successful bidder would then be told what price Ford would expect to pay for the part in the second, third and so on year they purchased it - on the assumption that the supplier would have paid off his tooling by then. Apparently, many of them regard the major contracts as "turnover" - they hardly make any money out of them but it keeps them big enough to do other things that they wouldn't be able to do competitively if they were smaller.
Avocet said:
I was once told by a rep from a company making steering bits that Mr. Ford would typically put out a tender for a part and the various suppliers would bid. The successful bidder would then be told what price Ford would expect to pay for the part .............
Not Ford in this case, but I came by the information re cost of a power rack from a company quoting GM. One technique they employ is to say "we've calculated or we currently want to beat what we currently pay, so the price should be X". So what was "x" 2 years ago for a power rack? It wasn't anything like £29.
Busa_Rush said:
OK, £7 each ?
Is it any wonder a Vectra feels like a 100,000 mile car when it's only done 10,000 !
Congradulations Busa Rush
You won a free mag! Go to Kit Car is Crap? - where everyone's a winner (except me) to claim it!
Runners up get 2 free mags.
Anyone with a table with 2 short legs?
The Figure was actually $12.50 US.
Don't agree the quality point though. The QA demands were tougher than my misses!
Den.
>> Edited by kitcarman on Monday 1st September 22:55
Gassing Station | Kit Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff