a few westfield questions...
Discussion
Still looking for a new car to replace my, now sold, tvr s3...
Looking through a few westfield ads very few are advertised as having LSDs fitted. Am I right in assuming that most cars fitted with IRS are sierra based and those without IRS are escort based? If this is the case am I right in assuming that LSDs are freely available for these types of suspension and if so are they suitable for the westfield application or am I looking at an expensive quaiffe LSD should I wish to convert one to LSD?
Also, many are advertised as xflow and some as cvh and I've read that the 1600/1700 xflow is the engine to have and the cvh is definitely not. What are the outwards differences between the engine so that I can tell a xflow advertised car is not a mistakenly described cvh car?
I've read that the vx 2.0l engine is a belter but is it worth paying an extra 2k for a car for the engine over a xflow or would I be wiser getting a xflow car and playing with that for a bit and converting it to a vx at a later date?
Lastly, does anyone have a westfield with a competition roll bar fitted that can let me know if the standard weather gear will fit over it.
Thanks in advance.
Regards,
Mark
Looking through a few westfield ads very few are advertised as having LSDs fitted. Am I right in assuming that most cars fitted with IRS are sierra based and those without IRS are escort based? If this is the case am I right in assuming that LSDs are freely available for these types of suspension and if so are they suitable for the westfield application or am I looking at an expensive quaiffe LSD should I wish to convert one to LSD?
Also, many are advertised as xflow and some as cvh and I've read that the 1600/1700 xflow is the engine to have and the cvh is definitely not. What are the outwards differences between the engine so that I can tell a xflow advertised car is not a mistakenly described cvh car?
I've read that the vx 2.0l engine is a belter but is it worth paying an extra 2k for a car for the engine over a xflow or would I be wiser getting a xflow car and playing with that for a bit and converting it to a vx at a later date?
Lastly, does anyone have a westfield with a competition roll bar fitted that can let me know if the standard weather gear will fit over it.
Thanks in advance.
Regards,
Mark
Thanks.
I know the sierra xr4i and xr4x4 had LSD's which should fit in or bolt on (not sure if they're 7" or 7.5"). Should be quite cheap too!
What do you mean by 7"/7.5"? Flange size?
I had the same discussion while trying to find an LSD for my tvr s3 which was essentially sierra based but there was a lot less room in a tvr and changing the diff meant tanking the body off which wasn't for the faint hearted. The issue was the flange size was different. If this is the case in this case too I'd presumably get around that by getting a new driveshaft.
Regards,
Mark
>> Edited by dern on Thursday 12th June 14:05
If you get the RAC bar with the detachable stays you can cut small holes in the boot box to fit them through. If you get the 'std' RAC bar - which is all welded - or the race chassis which has this already as part of the chassis - then major surgery on the boot box would be needed.
The 7 & 7.5 inch refers to the width of the diff casing - both will fit in a current Westie. The 7.5 comes from a Cossie - and is more expensive, whereas the 7 comes from a Sierra
Steve
The 7 & 7.5 inch refers to the width of the diff casing - both will fit in a current Westie. The 7.5 comes from a Cossie - and is more expensive, whereas the 7 comes from a Sierra
Steve
SEi's can also have an Escort diff. The original SEi's utilisted the front portion of the Escort diff housing and a bespoke aluminum cover on the back. There are a couple of advantages to doing this: It's a lot lighter than the Sierra diff and it has a lot more CWP options. However the LSD's are a lot more money. Where you can pick up an Sierra viscous LSD out of a Sierra 4x4 for around 100 to 250 notes depending on age/condition. You are talking 350 (doing it yourself) to £500 notes (getting someone else to do it and change the bearings while in there) to fit either a Quaife Auto Torque Biasing Diff or a Tran-X plate LSD.
Don't rule out live axle cars either. Unless you are buying it for road use only consider live axle. On track there really isn't much in it and they are lot lighter. Plus there are a few of us out there that actually prefer the balance of the live axle cars (we have two of them, one of which is for sale in the classifieds
)
As for engines, I wrote a hooooge thing on all the options which still might be a page or two back in these forums but a quick summary follows:
Common engines
X-flow - Cheap, easy to maintain, leaky and very light. Average power from 90-130bhp for a 1700.
CVH - Just don't, ok.
Pinto - Cheap, easy to maintain, not quite as leaky as a X-flow and heavy. AVEPWR - about 100-150bhp.
Vauxhall XE - Now very cheap, little maintenence required but easy to deal with, massively strong, still reasonbly heavy but very good bang per buck. AVEPWR (boggo on carbs) around 180, boggo on thottle boddies 200bhp, then mild mods will see 220 bhp quite easily. Beyond this (and it will go WAY beyond this, is serious money).
Zetecs - First of the modern engines - Dirt cheap. Not leaky, should be a fit and forget. Power from the 2.0 (the one to get) on TB's is in the 175bhp region. 200bhp is pretty easy to get to, though much beyond this isn't reccomended.
There are other more esoteric units out there but all the above (not counting the CVH) are decent, very cheap power units. The more modern Duratecs are still to new and very expensive, S2000's are awkward to fit but devastating, Cossie lumps are also not the cheapest things out there to do properly.
Personally I'd go for a VX every time due to the strength and the bang per buck factor. Second choice would be a 2.0 Zetec on TB's.
>> Edited by juansolo on Monday 16th June 06:59
Don't rule out live axle cars either. Unless you are buying it for road use only consider live axle. On track there really isn't much in it and they are lot lighter. Plus there are a few of us out there that actually prefer the balance of the live axle cars (we have two of them, one of which is for sale in the classifieds
) As for engines, I wrote a hooooge thing on all the options which still might be a page or two back in these forums but a quick summary follows:
Common engines
X-flow - Cheap, easy to maintain, leaky and very light. Average power from 90-130bhp for a 1700.
CVH - Just don't, ok.
Pinto - Cheap, easy to maintain, not quite as leaky as a X-flow and heavy. AVEPWR - about 100-150bhp.
Vauxhall XE - Now very cheap, little maintenence required but easy to deal with, massively strong, still reasonbly heavy but very good bang per buck. AVEPWR (boggo on carbs) around 180, boggo on thottle boddies 200bhp, then mild mods will see 220 bhp quite easily. Beyond this (and it will go WAY beyond this, is serious money).
Zetecs - First of the modern engines - Dirt cheap. Not leaky, should be a fit and forget. Power from the 2.0 (the one to get) on TB's is in the 175bhp region. 200bhp is pretty easy to get to, though much beyond this isn't reccomended.
There are other more esoteric units out there but all the above (not counting the CVH) are decent, very cheap power units. The more modern Duratecs are still to new and very expensive, S2000's are awkward to fit but devastating, Cossie lumps are also not the cheapest things out there to do properly.
Personally I'd go for a VX every time due to the strength and the bang per buck factor. Second choice would be a 2.0 Zetec on TB's.
>> Edited by juansolo on Monday 16th June 06:59
Thanks very much for all the information everyone...
. I'd like a vx engine but I'm happy to get a xflow and then modify it to take a vx or a bike engine when I'm ready and have the money.
Thanks,
Mark
My budget is about 5k so I'm guessing the cars will be circa 90-91 vintage. How would I tell the difference between the sierra and escort diff by looking at them. My concern is that a lot of these cars are bought by people who use them 2 or 3 times a year and don't really know what they have and I'd like to know what I'm buying before getting the car rather than finding out afterwards.
juansolo said: SEi's can also have an Escort diff. The original SEi's utilisted the front portion of the Escort diff housing and a bespoke aluminum cover on the back. There are a couple of advantages to doing this: It's a lot lighter than the Sierra diff and it has a lot more CWP options. However the LSD's are a lot more money. Where you can pick up an Sierra viscous LSD out of a Sierra 4x4 for around 100 to 250 notes depending on age/condition. You are talking 350 (doing it yourself) to £500 notes (getting someone else to do it and change the bearings while in there) to fit either a Quaife Auto Torque Biasing Diff or a Tran-X plate LSD.
I'm quite happy with a live axle car. I'll mainly be using it on the road for fun and occasional commuting (I know it's not ideal but I normally use a fireblade so it will be comparatively luxurious) and my first forays into trackdays.
Don't rule out live axle cars either. Unless you are buying it for road use only consider live axle. On track there really isn't much in it and they are lot lighter. Plus there are a few of us out there that actually prefer the balance of the live axle cars
All the cars in the ads would appear to be outside of my budget
(we have two of them, one of which is for sale in the classifieds
. I'd like a vx engine but I'm happy to get a xflow and then modify it to take a vx or a bike engine when I'm ready and have the money.The cars within my budget are predominantly xflow, cvh and pinto. From what I've read the xflow is the one to have from those 3 with the pinto coming a heavy second. What I don't want to do is buy a cvh car mistakenly thinking it's a xflow so how would I tell by looking at the engine whether it's a xflow or a cvh?
As for engines, I wrote a hooooge thing on all the options which still might be a page or two back in these forums but a quick summary follows:
Thanks,
Mark
My best bit of advice would be to get over onto the Westie owners club board http://wscc.ggr.net/cgi-bin/BB/ikonboard.cgi. Then get yourself down to a regional meeting and take a look at the cars. There will be LOTS of people there to give you advice on what to get and what not to. They're a friendly lot and should prove very helpful.
They are also likely to know of any good cars available in the area. You need to do your homework otherwise you could end up buying a car that isn't really suited to your needs. Then the spending will really take place as you transform it into what you wanted in the first place (but probably didn't realise at the time).
>> Edited by juansolo on Monday 16th June 18:39
They are also likely to know of any good cars available in the area. You need to do your homework otherwise you could end up buying a car that isn't really suited to your needs. Then the spending will really take place as you transform it into what you wanted in the first place (but probably didn't realise at the time).
>> Edited by juansolo on Monday 16th June 18:39
Blimey dern make ya mind up, one minute its Porker 944's you are considering, the next MR2 turbos and now Westies 
ok ref this question- "so how would I tell by looking at the engine whether it's a xflow or a cvh?"
xflow has thin/narrow rocker cover is like the upturned hull of a narrow boat- approx 2 inches across and 2 inches high, CVH is a huge rocker cover approx 6 inches across and pretty flat. Both rocker covers are obuously as wide as the head.
Easy peasy to tell the difference. Im too dim to post up any pics but search for the engine of an MK3 XR3 or Mk2 XR2 for the CVH and mk1 Fiestas or mk1/2 escorts for the x flow.
ok ref this question- "so how would I tell by looking at the engine whether it's a xflow or a cvh?"
xflow has thin/narrow rocker cover is like the upturned hull of a narrow boat- approx 2 inches across and 2 inches high, CVH is a huge rocker cover approx 6 inches across and pretty flat. Both rocker covers are obuously as wide as the head.
Easy peasy to tell the difference. Im too dim to post up any pics but search for the engine of an MK3 XR3 or Mk2 XR2 for the CVH and mk1 Fiestas or mk1/2 escorts for the x flow.
iguana said: Blimey dern make ya mind up, one minute its Porker 944's you are considering, the next MR2 turbos and now Westies
I know mate, the problem is I've had no weekends free to look at cars but time to surf, mull, get confused, mull again... the money's burning a hole I can tell you 
Nice one, cheers.
xflow has thin/narrow rocker cover is like the upturned hull of a narrow boat- approx 2 inches across and 2 inches high, CVH is a huge rocker cover approx 6 inches across and pretty flat. Both rocker covers are obuously as wide as the head.
Regards,
Mark
Thanks for the pictures chaps.
I've found a car that I really like the look of and I'm planning to see it very soon. It has a couple of 'features' I'm somewhat concerned over...
1) It doesn't have a LSD. It has a 3.9 open english diff. I understand the theory of what an LSD does but will it make a massive difference? Will I have fun in this car on the road and track or is it essential that I fit a Quaiffe ATB or similar? Is the Quaiffe a simple bolt in affair or is there setting up to do on it (I'd rather do this sort of thing myself you see)?
2) It doesn't appear to have an RAC roll bar. I'm not too bothered about this and will swap it over as and when.
Cheers,
Mark
I've found a car that I really like the look of and I'm planning to see it very soon. It has a couple of 'features' I'm somewhat concerned over...
1) It doesn't have a LSD. It has a 3.9 open english diff. I understand the theory of what an LSD does but will it make a massive difference? Will I have fun in this car on the road and track or is it essential that I fit a Quaiffe ATB or similar? Is the Quaiffe a simple bolt in affair or is there setting up to do on it (I'd rather do this sort of thing myself you see)?
2) It doesn't appear to have an RAC roll bar. I'm not too bothered about this and will swap it over as and when.
Cheers,
Mark
JUANSOLO Depends on the usage of the vehicle and the engine fitted, if you're just using it for the road, then it should be ok, if the power to weight ratio isn't too high. Easiest way to tell is take it for a test drive, if it gives a lot of torque steer under load then maybe you should consider an LSD or ATB.
annodomini2 said:The pertinant details from the advert are...
Depends on the usage of the vehicle and the engine fitted, if you're just using it for the road, then it should be ok, if the power to weight ratio isn't too high. Easiest way to tell is take it for a test drive, if it gives a lot of torque steer under load then maybe you should consider an LSD or ATB.
Live axle (Escort) open 3.89 diff
Four speed box
Spax adjustable shocks
Minilite type wheels (ford PCD) with 4 new Yoko A539s
1696cc Xflow, beleived Roger King build
711m block
Piper 285 fast road cam (2000 - 7500rpm)
Steel rocker gear with double springs
Shallow, baffled ally sump
Twin 40 DCOE Webers with K&Ns
Lumenition electronic ignition with magnecor leads
Westfield stainless 4-1 exhaust
...if that's any use.
It looks the business but I'm a bit at sea with the above. It all sounds like the right kind of stuff to me but I haven't had a x-flow car before.
Cheers,
Mark
dern i can certainly see the westie appeal & thsi one I spotted in the classifieds appeals more than most-
Oh and possibly the most appeal for me is this line -A great fun car that will fit very tall drivers due to the wide body configuration, extra large roll bar and wide spaced pedals.
Shame its £10k really and that I havent got it
Oh and possibly the most appeal for me is this line -A great fun car that will fit very tall drivers due to the wide body configuration, extra large roll bar and wide spaced pedals.
Shame its £10k really and that I havent got it
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