Advice needed for prospective (novice) kit builder
Discussion
As a newcomer to kit cars, and someone relatively inexperienced with the oily bits in general, but a lover of cars, I've decided it might be a good idea to "learn by doing".
I'd ultimately like to take on a large long-term project to produce something really special, but being a pragmatist, I've realised that I'll need to do something simple first.
On the plus side, I have access to a number of people who are mechanically minded, and I tend to learn stuff well if I read a book and try something "hands on". However, I hammer a keyboard for a living, and my garage isn't particularly well equipped with tools.
What I need to know is:
1) Should I really steer clear until I've managed to do a college course or suchlike?
2) What kit would be suitable for a novice with fairly meagre financial means (say a £2000-£3000 budget spent over a period of a couple of years)?
Thanks in advance.
Rob
I'd ultimately like to take on a large long-term project to produce something really special, but being a pragmatist, I've realised that I'll need to do something simple first.
On the plus side, I have access to a number of people who are mechanically minded, and I tend to learn stuff well if I read a book and try something "hands on". However, I hammer a keyboard for a living, and my garage isn't particularly well equipped with tools.
What I need to know is:
1) Should I really steer clear until I've managed to do a college course or suchlike?
2) What kit would be suitable for a novice with fairly meagre financial means (say a £2000-£3000 budget spent over a period of a couple of years)?
Thanks in advance.
Rob
I agree with Breadline Racing, if that is all the cash you have, maybe source a 2nd hand car and rebuild it.
For a novice this could be good too, the car will already be registered, so you can avoid SVA and all the bits will be there. They may need replaicng/rebuilding/redesigning but then again that's no different to building from scratch.
Try 'Which Kit?' or 'Kit Car' magazines, pick up somthing 2nd hand and then spend some cash making it better. A friend just bought a Fisher Fury for £4k, which is a good little car with decent motor. Spending a grand on it will turn it into a £6k car easily!
Good luck...Mark B
For a novice this could be good too, the car will already be registered, so you can avoid SVA and all the bits will be there. They may need replaicng/rebuilding/redesigning but then again that's no different to building from scratch.
Try 'Which Kit?' or 'Kit Car' magazines, pick up somthing 2nd hand and then spend some cash making it better. A friend just bought a Fisher Fury for £4k, which is a good little car with decent motor. Spending a grand on it will turn it into a £6k car easily!
Good luck...Mark B
The problem with that kind of budget is that you are looking at Locost/Robin Hood type cars both of which need a fair amount of knowledge, experience and tools in order to arive at a decent car.
More money does not just mean more complex it also means more of a bolt-together job with better panel fit etc.
Agree with the above may be best to source a used one and play around for a year.
It's easy to spend a grand on fittings you can't even remember buying!!
HTH Nick
More money does not just mean more complex it also means more of a bolt-together job with better panel fit etc.
Agree with the above may be best to source a used one and play around for a year.
It's easy to spend a grand on fittings you can't even remember buying!!
HTH Nick
1) Should I really steer clear until I've managed to do a college course or suchlike?
No way! Go for it, you'll learn quickly by getting stuck in and have loads more fun than in a classroom. You're unlikely to come across much you can't find out/pick up by reading relevant books/mags, talking to mates, going to shows & meets, posting up here etc.
2) What kit would be suitable for a novice with fairly meagre financial means (say a £2000-£3000 budget spent over a period of a couple of years)?
Agree with previous posts - buy something, take it apart and what have you got? A kit plus donor parts ready to be assembled for less money than the sum of the parts!
And if you drive it for a bit first you can decide what you like and don't like and should be done differently on rebuilding. Good luck - let us know what you go for.
Chris
the kit-car market is so vast, you have to think what you want 2 achieve... for ur time & effort do u want 2 have a toy or an everyday car? get a couple of kit-car mags & have a few hours checking them out
1st choice would be a lotus7 replica, cheap, but it's not a sortof car you can use everyday. If you like the styling the Banham Sprint uses a mini floorpan (so you can keep it tax exempt if you can find one!) looks like the old Austin-Healey 'frogeye' Sprite they recon you can build one for around £3000 - infact all of the banham cars are quite cheap to build...
other ones which are reasonably cheap to build are: Autotune Gemini (looks like a 60's style jag) £4000, Onyx Fastcat - definatly an eyeopener!
the thing is.. the more you pay the better the kit (usually) i've just started my new project (shelsley T2) i only have to do a couple of bits of welding, most is just bolting things together! obviously there is alot more to it, but Peter has done most of the thinking for you & developed a very comprehensive, step-by-step builders manual
1st choice would be a lotus7 replica, cheap, but it's not a sortof car you can use everyday. If you like the styling the Banham Sprint uses a mini floorpan (so you can keep it tax exempt if you can find one!) looks like the old Austin-Healey 'frogeye' Sprite they recon you can build one for around £3000 - infact all of the banham cars are quite cheap to build...
other ones which are reasonably cheap to build are: Autotune Gemini (looks like a 60's style jag) £4000, Onyx Fastcat - definatly an eyeopener!
the thing is.. the more you pay the better the kit (usually) i've just started my new project (shelsley T2) i only have to do a couple of bits of welding, most is just bolting things together! obviously there is alot more to it, but Peter has done most of the thinking for you & developed a very comprehensive, step-by-step builders manual
so before you purchase your kit, go to the companies & have a chat, look at any cars they maybe building/have built and get the numbers of anyone who is building/has built one of their kits - nothing better than first hand experience... otherwise you could end up up against a brick wall
not what you want to be doing on your first project hope this helps...
Not wishing to burst your bubble, but you don't get a whole lot for £3000. Good hunting.
Which is precisely why I was asking, being a complete novice. What sort of kit should I be looking for, and what kind of cost can I expect? I'm not adverse to adding a few thousand to my budget, and spreading it over a longer period.
Not keen on the idea of re-working something someone else has built. I'm not convinced I can learn a whole lot from doing that, and I like the buzz gained from a quality job seen through from start to finish.
Some very valuable and interesting advice, and a few things have come up that I hadn't considered. Please keep the comments coming!
Thanks,
Rob
>> Edited by Witchfinder on Monday 28th April 17:50
Stoneleigh kit car show this coming weekend, which is a good way to see lots of different kits in one place and speak to owners/builders for ideas.
To keep things as simple as possible when starting off, go for a pushrod engine and a carb rather than a twin cam fuel injected engine.
Another option you might consider is the 'unfinished project' which somebody has given up on. Often come complete with donor parts and all for less than buying kit new. Check out ads in kit car mags.
To keep things as simple as possible when starting off, go for a pushrod engine and a carb rather than a twin cam fuel injected engine.
Another option you might consider is the 'unfinished project' which somebody has given up on. Often come complete with donor parts and all for less than buying kit new. Check out ads in kit car mags.
grahambell said: Stoneleigh kit car show this coming weekend, which is a good way to see lots of different kits in one place and speak to owners/builders for ideas.
To keep things as simple as possible when starting off, go for a pushrod engine and a carb rather than a twin cam fuel injected engine.
Another option you might consider is the 'unfinished project' which somebody has given up on. Often come complete with donor parts and all for less than buying kit new. Check out ads in kit car mags.
All bloody good advice. I've seen so many part-builts go past where I realy wish I had the space. Bargains are to be had. You will want to re-work a lot of whats been done already though.
Good hunting, Stoneleigh is a must for someone in your position. Remember to chat to as many owners/builders as you can.
I went a similar route as your planing, I did a £6k Tiger before the Ultima. That was a good learning experience. Had to sell the car to help finance the engine. And to show how much I loved going the budget route, I hope to do another soon as a track-day project.
Paul
Hi, definately go for it. I was the same as you very little knowledge and litlle cash. Somne excellent advoce here. Plus a lot of support and advice whilst you build, which I didn't have.
A good website to view is: www.totalkitcar.com/
Lots of links to kit cars and clubs etc.
Shop around and choose a kit you like the look of. Don't forget you'll occassionaly be really p*ssed off with it when something doesn't seem to work, a car you love will get you through it.
You can build cars on a budget but it will require more work. I did it, you need to source a very good scrap yard (or scouring the classifieds) for sourcing a good doner. Remember that there are hundreds of MOT failure cr@p cars out there so you can afford to be choosy. Then it sthe painstaking time of stripping ecah part fully cleaning and putting back together its fun and you learn so much. I had two manuals for the doner a Haynes and another similar and used both to compare notes and learn as I took stuff apart. The only new parts which I insisted upon when I started building were brakes (pipeS & shoes) and recon steering (makes sense in safety terms). Although I did get new seats, shiney bits etc. sourced at auto jumbles and presents/savings (see below)
You can do this prior to actually buying a kit and you can spend more time saving. A rough guide which I found to be useful is the car will roughly cost twice the price of the kit (unless you buy a fully comprehensive kit which is way out your price range at the moment). You will have to save for the SVA (about £1k I believe) Keep an eye on the pennies, scounge, do favours, get christmas and birthday present list ready! and you can do it.
The final bit of advice I can give is have plenty of patience and a sense of humour. You are effectively replacing expense with your own labour and it will take time, be occasionally annoying, sometimes painful but most of all it will be FUN.
>> Edited by smeagol on Monday 28th April 21:57
A good website to view is: www.totalkitcar.com/
Lots of links to kit cars and clubs etc.
Shop around and choose a kit you like the look of. Don't forget you'll occassionaly be really p*ssed off with it when something doesn't seem to work, a car you love will get you through it.
You can build cars on a budget but it will require more work. I did it, you need to source a very good scrap yard (or scouring the classifieds) for sourcing a good doner. Remember that there are hundreds of MOT failure cr@p cars out there so you can afford to be choosy. Then it sthe painstaking time of stripping ecah part fully cleaning and putting back together its fun and you learn so much. I had two manuals for the doner a Haynes and another similar and used both to compare notes and learn as I took stuff apart. The only new parts which I insisted upon when I started building were brakes (pipeS & shoes) and recon steering (makes sense in safety terms). Although I did get new seats, shiney bits etc. sourced at auto jumbles and presents/savings (see below)
You can do this prior to actually buying a kit and you can spend more time saving. A rough guide which I found to be useful is the car will roughly cost twice the price of the kit (unless you buy a fully comprehensive kit which is way out your price range at the moment). You will have to save for the SVA (about £1k I believe) Keep an eye on the pennies, scounge, do favours, get christmas and birthday present list ready! and you can do it.
The final bit of advice I can give is have plenty of patience and a sense of humour. You are effectively replacing expense with your own labour and it will take time, be occasionally annoying, sometimes painful but most of all it will be FUN.
>> Edited by smeagol on Monday 28th April 21:57
Although mainly aimed at the Locost builder....
www.locostbuilders.co.uk/
is really a good place to look for good tips and money saving advice...my car is nothing like a locost really, but I find the site useful.
www.locostbuilders.co.uk/
is really a good place to look for good tips and money saving advice...my car is nothing like a locost really, but I find the site useful.
Thank you all for your advice. It looks like I'm starting out on a journey that will take many years! Start with small relatively easy conversions, work up to basic kits, and then perhaps ultimately to something even more complex and impressive.
I'm beginning to wonder what I've let myself in for. Whilst browsing the Banham site, my girlfriend peered over my shoulder and asked me to "do" an X21 for her.
>> Edited by Witchfinder on Monday 28th April 23:27
I'm beginning to wonder what I've let myself in for. Whilst browsing the Banham site, my girlfriend peered over my shoulder and asked me to "do" an X21 for her.
>> Edited by Witchfinder on Monday 28th April 23:27
Update: I've been snooping around and there's a rumour on www.the-x21.com that Banham are not supplying the X21 any more. Can anyone confirm or deny that rumour?
Witchfinder said: Update: I've been snooping around and there's a rumour on www.the-x21.com that Banham are not supplying the X21 any more. Can anyone confirm or deny that rumour?
If anyone will know it'll be Banham, so ask them direct.
Witchfinder said:
Not keen on the idea of re-working something someone else has built. I'm not convinced I can learn a whole lot from doing that, and I like the buzz gained from a quality job seen through from start to finish.
I don't know about that, there's a lot to be learned as you see the previous builder's mistakes. I've bought a Dutton Phaeton (stop sniggering!) and up until recently it resembled a rusty climbing frame, it now resembles a climbing frame with a fresh coat of red oxide!
As someone else has said it's a cheap and easy way to getting yourself the kit and donor parts without the hassle of disposing of the donor. You can also get the satisfaction of doing a quality job on the previously unloved kit.
You can even complicate things if it seems to be too easy by deciding that the perfectly good 1.3 crossflow engine fitted wouldn't be as nice as the big 2.0 Pinto from a Sierra. I am speaking from experience!
I believe Breadline Racing has put his Pinto powered Dutton Phaeton up for sale, might be worth contacting him if you were interested. Alternatively there are several advertised on www.duttonownersclub.co.uk
The only downside with a Banham is that you need to be able to weld, I can't so I wouldn't consider it.
All the best and hope you choose something you're happy with!!
Be really careful about buying a secondhand kit or an abandoned project! Some of these will not have been registered or will have been incorectly registered. If you end up having to go through an SVA test with a car that wasn't designed to do SVA, you might well be in for MAJOR heartache and expense!
I'm not sayimg it will be impossible, but it's worth going into these things with your eyes open!
Also, several respondents have mentioned Banhams because they're "body conversions" so they're SVA-exempt. I'm not sure the DVLA share that view! Some local Vehicle Registry Offices seem to register them and others ask for an SVA. Do your homework first!!!
Good luck, there's nothing like the buzz of driving something you've put together yourself!
I'm not sayimg it will be impossible, but it's worth going into these things with your eyes open!
Also, several respondents have mentioned Banhams because they're "body conversions" so they're SVA-exempt. I'm not sure the DVLA share that view! Some local Vehicle Registry Offices seem to register them and others ask for an SVA. Do your homework first!!!
Good luck, there's nothing like the buzz of driving something you've put together yourself!
Well, I just got back from Stoneleigh, and my head's buzzing! Really great day with nice weather and some fantastic cars - the star for me being the GT40 replica that was on the Italian Replicas Club stand(?!)
Got a close up look at a few Banhams, and wasn't too impressed with the quality of the panel fit and the the gel-coat finish. A couple of examples displayed badly mismatched colours! Clearly not the fault of the builders who had lavished attention on their cars.
I was blown away by the GTM Libra. It looks like a relatively straightforward kit that is mostly bolted together, and looks fantastic. The quality of every example I saw just couldn't be faulted. Unfortunately, it's somewhat beyond my price range, with even the most basic version weighing in at over £10,000.
This means I have to dream for the next few years until I can pool enough cash. Little else tickled my fancy - at least not within my financial reach. Thanks for your advice everyone!
>> Edited by Witchfinder on Sunday 4th May 23:02
Got a close up look at a few Banhams, and wasn't too impressed with the quality of the panel fit and the the gel-coat finish. A couple of examples displayed badly mismatched colours! Clearly not the fault of the builders who had lavished attention on their cars.
I was blown away by the GTM Libra. It looks like a relatively straightforward kit that is mostly bolted together, and looks fantastic. The quality of every example I saw just couldn't be faulted. Unfortunately, it's somewhat beyond my price range, with even the most basic version weighing in at over £10,000.
This means I have to dream for the next few years until I can pool enough cash. Little else tickled my fancy - at least not within my financial reach. Thanks for your advice everyone!
>> Edited by Witchfinder on Sunday 4th May 23:02
Gassing Station | Kit Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff