WHAT TO LOOK FOR?
Discussion
Might be thinking of seconding my current car with an all out sports. At the moment I'm thinking of getting a Cobra replica.
What things should I be looking out for when purchasing a used one? Also, what general things do I need to pay attention to for all kit cars...... this is my first one! And before you guys say it, I won't go for something more simple!
Oh, will also be taking a basic mechanics course to supplement knowledge so I can do basic work myself
Thanks in advance
Raks
What things should I be looking out for when purchasing a used one? Also, what general things do I need to pay attention to for all kit cars...... this is my first one! And before you guys say it, I won't go for something more simple!
Oh, will also be taking a basic mechanics course to supplement knowledge so I can do basic work myself
Thanks in advance
Raks
Not interested in the TVR as I'm too accustomed to the whole warming up and warming down feature. Also, for that price, would'nt get much.
Don't have that much knowledge on the Marcos, so that makes me a little more biased away from it.
The Cobra has the looks, and it goes like a Concorde. It would'nt be used for racing, only for tootles around town...... errrrr....ok, and the occasional blast on the M
Don't have that much knowledge on the Marcos, so that makes me a little more biased away from it.
The Cobra has the looks, and it goes like a Concorde. It would'nt be used for racing, only for tootles around town...... errrrr....ok, and the occasional blast on the M
Raks,
What budget, if you can't afford a Tiv, what cash are you hoping to throw at a Cobra rep?
What's this warming up and down business??? A lot of Cobras, the cheaper ones anyway, have Rover V8 based engines, which is the same as the Tiv????
As Alex said, most don't handle that well, they do sound great, depending on engine/exhaust set up and if you are tall, you won't fit very well. I am 6'2" and have serious trouble fitting in a Southern Roadcraft car!?! Very, very uncomfortable.
If you want a pose car, have you considered a Ginetta V8?
What budget, if you can't afford a Tiv, what cash are you hoping to throw at a Cobra rep?
What's this warming up and down business??? A lot of Cobras, the cheaper ones anyway, have Rover V8 based engines, which is the same as the Tiv????
As Alex said, most don't handle that well, they do sound great, depending on engine/exhaust set up and if you are tall, you won't fit very well. I am 6'2" and have serious trouble fitting in a Southern Roadcraft car!?! Very, very uncomfortable.
If you want a pose car, have you considered a Ginetta V8?
Budget is about 10-12k, and I wouldn't get the kind of Tiv I want with that much, considering a good example is of course needed.
Tiv garages state, to get the best out of any of their engines, warming up is neccessary, as you yould do with any petrol turbo engine. With the Cob, I would be looking at a Yank block for it. Not a Rover. That's my choice though.
Ahhhh, however the height is a problem. I am 6'4!
Really an issue then?
Don't have much knowledge on Ginetta's. Any links anyone so I can read up?
Tiv garages state, to get the best out of any of their engines, warming up is neccessary, as you yould do with any petrol turbo engine. With the Cob, I would be looking at a Yank block for it. Not a Rover. That's my choice though.
Ahhhh, however the height is a problem. I am 6'4!
Really an issue then?
Don't have much knowledge on Ginetta's. Any links anyone so I can read up?
You expect to get a 'small block' cobra replica for 10-12K?
It will be damn ropey for that money. Most v6 ones worth buying are around that price.
You should look at a TVR S (v6 for half your budget, V8 at your budget).
If you are set on getting a Cobra, look at
www.hallmark-cars.com/cobra.htm
and see that 'good' 'small block' version are 18-30K
Sparks
>> Edited by sparks on Thursday 6th March 12:49
It will be damn ropey for that money. Most v6 ones worth buying are around that price.
You should look at a TVR S (v6 for half your budget, V8 at your budget).
If you are set on getting a Cobra, look at
www.hallmark-cars.com/cobra.htm
and see that 'good' 'small block' version are 18-30K
Sparks
>> Edited by sparks on Thursday 6th March 12:49
Raks,
At 6'4" you will NOT get in any Cobras, they are really short in the leg room.
As for the cash you are thinking of, are you sure a Tiv is out of the question. You could find an early Griffith 4.0l for that sort of cash.
You do need to warm the cars up and down, but that is the same for any reasonable performance car. Are you saying you would nail an American Small Block on start up?
I would re think, I am an avid Kit Car fan, don't get me wrong, but think this through carefully. For the money kitcars are fantastic value, you get an individual car with (generally) outstanding performance for your buck. But, they can be hard work, don't buy the cheapest out there, buy one that has been built well, or at least done a few miles to iron out the problems.
Good luck, I am sure you will find something well worth having.
At 6'4" you will NOT get in any Cobras, they are really short in the leg room.
As for the cash you are thinking of, are you sure a Tiv is out of the question. You could find an early Griffith 4.0l for that sort of cash.
You do need to warm the cars up and down, but that is the same for any reasonable performance car. Are you saying you would nail an American Small Block on start up?
I would re think, I am an avid Kit Car fan, don't get me wrong, but think this through carefully. For the money kitcars are fantastic value, you get an individual car with (generally) outstanding performance for your buck. But, they can be hard work, don't buy the cheapest out there, buy one that has been built well, or at least done a few miles to iron out the problems.
Good luck, I am sure you will find something well worth having.
Mark B said: Raks,
At 6'4" you will NOT get in any Cobras, they are really short in the leg room.
.......
I seem to remember that one of the companies does a 'longer' body, but that it is then not quite the classic original shape.
Certainly the US cobra replicas are available for the larger person
Sparks
Hmmmm, wasn't sure that there was the possiblity of getting an easrly Griff for that price range?? Possibility I guess...
NO I'm not syaing I would nail an American block from start up, I'm saying that with the Tiv engines, they seem a lot more pretentious than a 'normal' engine
With regards to the longer wheelbase, does anyone know of which particular manufacturers provide these?
Anyone think it would be easier to source a US version? Possibly from a company here that brings cars over?
NO I'm not syaing I would nail an American block from start up, I'm saying that with the Tiv engines, they seem a lot more pretentious than a 'normal' engine
With regards to the longer wheelbase, does anyone know of which particular manufacturers provide these?
Anyone think it would be easier to source a US version? Possibly from a company here that brings cars over?
Go for a Cobra replica! 
You won't regret it.
Saying "They don't handle" is a bit of a sweeping generalisation - depends on the kit and how well it's built/set up. Get a good kit like a Dax or similar and they very definitely DO handle.
As for "You won't fit" - maybe/maybe not - try it. I'm a bit over 6' and have loads of room in my Dax. I don't even have the seat all the way back.
With regard to engines, I never understand why people insist you have to have a Yank engine in a Cobra replica to be authentic then put Chevy engines in? That's not exactly authentic is it?
Personally, I think a tuned Rover gives the best performance/handling compromise in a Cobra replica because they weigh peanuts, give reasonable power and sound the part. I reckon there is a bit of snobbery about our old friend the Rover sometimes. No one seems to mind it when it's got a TVR badge stuck on it. There's no reason you can't get TVR like power outputs with a bit of simple tuning.
If you really after authenticity then fine, but who cares, everyone knows it's fake anyway!
And as for getting one within your budget, I reckon you shouldn't have a problem. If you're buying a built car I'd get a slightly tatty example of a fundamentally good car (e.g. Dax) rather than a mint example of a crap car (I'll mention no names but think of fat Japanese wrestlers). You can spend a little money over time to tweak the right basic car to your taste.
Anyway, you pays your money and you makes your choice, that's the beauty of kit cars!
Good Luck
Chris
Edited to make grammar a bit less crap
>> Edited by Chris_N on Friday 7th March 19:20
>> Edited by Chris_N on Friday 7th March 19:21
You won't regret it. Saying "They don't handle" is a bit of a sweeping generalisation - depends on the kit and how well it's built/set up. Get a good kit like a Dax or similar and they very definitely DO handle.
As for "You won't fit" - maybe/maybe not - try it. I'm a bit over 6' and have loads of room in my Dax. I don't even have the seat all the way back.
With regard to engines, I never understand why people insist you have to have a Yank engine in a Cobra replica to be authentic then put Chevy engines in? That's not exactly authentic is it?
Personally, I think a tuned Rover gives the best performance/handling compromise in a Cobra replica because they weigh peanuts, give reasonable power and sound the part. I reckon there is a bit of snobbery about our old friend the Rover sometimes. No one seems to mind it when it's got a TVR badge stuck on it. There's no reason you can't get TVR like power outputs with a bit of simple tuning.
If you really after authenticity then fine, but who cares, everyone knows it's fake anyway!
And as for getting one within your budget, I reckon you shouldn't have a problem. If you're buying a built car I'd get a slightly tatty example of a fundamentally good car (e.g. Dax) rather than a mint example of a crap car (I'll mention no names but think of fat Japanese wrestlers). You can spend a little money over time to tweak the right basic car to your taste.
Anyway, you pays your money and you makes your choice, that's the beauty of kit cars!
Good Luck
Chris
Edited to make grammar a bit less crap
>> Edited by Chris_N on Friday 7th March 19:20
>> Edited by Chris_N on Friday 7th March 19:21
OK, just been round the world and back again!!!
Have been doing a little more research to see what the options are in terms of 'off the shelf' motors. Guess what? I came right back here!!!
Slightly revised criteria though. After reading a thread in the recent batch, I see Dax's are available which have been built and registered @ £15k roughly. My position has changed so I can comfortably afford something along these lines.
I think I will agree with not getting a big Yank blobk straight away, and starting with something like the Rover V8 just to get used to the way the car moves and reacts.
So, anything I should be looking at to pick a good 'un?
Build quality? Paperwork? Manuals? Anything else?
Have been doing a little more research to see what the options are in terms of 'off the shelf' motors. Guess what? I came right back here!!!
Slightly revised criteria though. After reading a thread in the recent batch, I see Dax's are available which have been built and registered @ £15k roughly. My position has changed so I can comfortably afford something along these lines.
I think I will agree with not getting a big Yank blobk straight away, and starting with something like the Rover V8 just to get used to the way the car moves and reacts.
So, anything I should be looking at to pick a good 'un?
Build quality? Paperwork? Manuals? Anything else?
Here goes with my thoughts, sorry if it's a bit of a woffle ...
I would start by finding out the year the chassis dates from. There have been detailed refinements made by Dax over the years to things like suspension geometry, braking and steering components etc. Sometimes to improve the car, sometimes to aid sourcing donor parts. Once you know this, I'm sure Dax will tell you a bit more about it, they're pretty helpful in my experience. I'm not suggesting there is any age or particular components you need to avoid, just that you want to know what you're dealing with.
Obviously you want to establish whether it has been professionally or home build and in either case look for evidence that the work has been done to a reasonable quality. Were new or used components used? If they were used, were they reconditioned where appropriate to a suitable quality. An extreme example might be brake calipers. If someone had just bought calipers off a XJ12 in a scrappie and bolted them on I'd be worried. If they could show they'd bought and fitted new pistons/seals I'd feel better. If they'd had the calipers professionally rebuild better still. Anyone worth their salt will have kept receipts for whichever of these scenarios is the case otherwise do you really want to be buying a car off them?
Generally I would pore over whatever receipts are available and try and get an impression of the quality of the items used and the care that has gone into building the car. Are there any photographs of the build underway? Most people take pictures and this would all help you build an impression.
It's true of any car, but if possible look at a few different cars. Don't worry if they're not for sale initially. Go to one of the Kit Car Shows or Dax's open day on Good Friday maybe. This will help you build up an impression of when something has been done well and when corners have been cut. How do the doors, boot, bonnet fit? Does it have weather gear, if so how does it fit? How has the interior been trimmed out? Whether it's done in a luxurious way or simply it should still look like it has been done well. Then when you look at cars that are up for sale you'll immediately get an impression of whether it's decent.
Same thing goes for the engine bay - some people panel it in alloy and add lots off dress-up bits (braided hose, chrome rocker covers and filters etc). Either is fine so long as it has been done well.
Personally I would work my way along the fuel line lines, brake lines, and wiring to ensure things are routed carefully, fixed well, pass through grommets when they go through bulkheads. You wouldn't want the fuel line rubbing against anything or running too close to the exhausts for instance. Are the fuel and brake lines fixed to an inside edge of the chassis rather than the bottom so they don't get squashed, snagged, scraped on a rough road?
Another thing is has the car just been bolted together and put on the road or has it been set up properly? Ideally it will have had the ride height, suspension geometry, steering set up properly - maybe by the factory or someone who knows about these things and has the right equipment. (
mine hasn't yet, I keep meaning to get around to it!)
Other things worth checking I can think of:
Has it got a PowerLok diff - not crucial but nice.
Check the rad isn't rubbing the body - can cause stress cracking.
Do you want side pipes or underneath exhausts? It's not particularly cheap to change. If the exhausts run underneath how well are they fitted? You want them fairly tight to the body otherwise they will ground out pretty easily. They may already be damaged from this.
Check around the body generally for stone chips/stress cracks/accident repairs all of which should be pretty obvious.
Obviously normal checks you'd make on any car to be confident in state of engine & gearbox. Blue smoke when you floor it is a bad sign
One thing I would definitely definitely check is that the handbrake works effectively. I'd try and get it along to an MOT station to be tested on their rollers. The reason I say this is that the Jag rear end has inboard disks with a separate cable operated caliper with its own little pads and self adjusting mechanism on top of the main calipers. The self adjusting mechanism is very prone to seizing due to heat build up and then the handbrake will only work on one side - an MOT failure. Not such a big deal in itself but it's a bugger to get to on a finished car. Maybe there's another technique I missed, but the only way I could get to the handbrake to fix it was to take the seats and dashboard out of the car so the trasmission tunnel could be removed, then you can get access to the rear brakes from the back of the cockpit. Not something you want to do every year ideally and certainly not three times, which is what it took me to get it right!
I'm sure there is loads of other stuff I haven't thought of, but hopefully that's some things to get you started.
Good luck.
Chris
I would start by finding out the year the chassis dates from. There have been detailed refinements made by Dax over the years to things like suspension geometry, braking and steering components etc. Sometimes to improve the car, sometimes to aid sourcing donor parts. Once you know this, I'm sure Dax will tell you a bit more about it, they're pretty helpful in my experience. I'm not suggesting there is any age or particular components you need to avoid, just that you want to know what you're dealing with.
Obviously you want to establish whether it has been professionally or home build and in either case look for evidence that the work has been done to a reasonable quality. Were new or used components used? If they were used, were they reconditioned where appropriate to a suitable quality. An extreme example might be brake calipers. If someone had just bought calipers off a XJ12 in a scrappie and bolted them on I'd be worried. If they could show they'd bought and fitted new pistons/seals I'd feel better. If they'd had the calipers professionally rebuild better still. Anyone worth their salt will have kept receipts for whichever of these scenarios is the case otherwise do you really want to be buying a car off them?
Generally I would pore over whatever receipts are available and try and get an impression of the quality of the items used and the care that has gone into building the car. Are there any photographs of the build underway? Most people take pictures and this would all help you build an impression.
It's true of any car, but if possible look at a few different cars. Don't worry if they're not for sale initially. Go to one of the Kit Car Shows or Dax's open day on Good Friday maybe. This will help you build up an impression of when something has been done well and when corners have been cut. How do the doors, boot, bonnet fit? Does it have weather gear, if so how does it fit? How has the interior been trimmed out? Whether it's done in a luxurious way or simply it should still look like it has been done well. Then when you look at cars that are up for sale you'll immediately get an impression of whether it's decent.
Same thing goes for the engine bay - some people panel it in alloy and add lots off dress-up bits (braided hose, chrome rocker covers and filters etc). Either is fine so long as it has been done well.
Personally I would work my way along the fuel line lines, brake lines, and wiring to ensure things are routed carefully, fixed well, pass through grommets when they go through bulkheads. You wouldn't want the fuel line rubbing against anything or running too close to the exhausts for instance. Are the fuel and brake lines fixed to an inside edge of the chassis rather than the bottom so they don't get squashed, snagged, scraped on a rough road?
Another thing is has the car just been bolted together and put on the road or has it been set up properly? Ideally it will have had the ride height, suspension geometry, steering set up properly - maybe by the factory or someone who knows about these things and has the right equipment. (
mine hasn't yet, I keep meaning to get around to it!) Other things worth checking I can think of:
Has it got a PowerLok diff - not crucial but nice.
Check the rad isn't rubbing the body - can cause stress cracking.
Do you want side pipes or underneath exhausts? It's not particularly cheap to change. If the exhausts run underneath how well are they fitted? You want them fairly tight to the body otherwise they will ground out pretty easily. They may already be damaged from this.
Check around the body generally for stone chips/stress cracks/accident repairs all of which should be pretty obvious.
Obviously normal checks you'd make on any car to be confident in state of engine & gearbox. Blue smoke when you floor it is a bad sign
One thing I would definitely definitely check is that the handbrake works effectively. I'd try and get it along to an MOT station to be tested on their rollers. The reason I say this is that the Jag rear end has inboard disks with a separate cable operated caliper with its own little pads and self adjusting mechanism on top of the main calipers. The self adjusting mechanism is very prone to seizing due to heat build up and then the handbrake will only work on one side - an MOT failure. Not such a big deal in itself but it's a bugger to get to on a finished car. Maybe there's another technique I missed, but the only way I could get to the handbrake to fix it was to take the seats and dashboard out of the car so the trasmission tunnel could be removed, then you can get access to the rear brakes from the back of the cockpit. Not something you want to do every year ideally and certainly not three times, which is what it took me to get it right!
I'm sure there is loads of other stuff I haven't thought of, but hopefully that's some things to get you started.
Good luck.
Chris
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