Dutton Melos & phaeton
Discussion
Been browsing through Ebay again fellas and I spotted a couple of kits that are cheap (mongrol kits) and cheerfull
One in particular that Mrs Jagdpanther liked was the Dutton Melos...funky looking little car.
The one I like is the Dutton phaeton, kind of like a poor mans Westie (Im sure you already know that)
anyway, I know these cars arent going to be upto the standards of the Caterfields and Westerhams
but as a cheap bit of fun and a bit of project..whats the opinions??
Im not into complete hooning as yet and drive pretty steady so it would be more of a fast paced cruising tool more than back road hoonacey
One in particular that Mrs Jagdpanther liked was the Dutton Melos...funky looking little car.
The one I like is the Dutton phaeton, kind of like a poor mans Westie (Im sure you already know that)
anyway, I know these cars arent going to be upto the standards of the Caterfields and Westerhams
but as a cheap bit of fun and a bit of project..whats the opinions?? Im not into complete hooning as yet and drive pretty steady so it would be more of a fast paced cruising tool more than back road hoonacey
I know the feeling well, while in my final year of university of last year my final student loan cheque decided to burn a dutton sized hole in my pocket!!!
With a limited budget and being 22 at the time a dutton seemed to be the only realistic chance of getting a fun rear wheel drive car, thats previous owners hadn't been hairdressers! So after seeing a good one (£3500) with 160 bhp perfect condition I found Anjie my little purple demon for about £2000.
So after an ill-advised trip to le mans many lessons have been learnt
1)- Most pheatons are not well made, done on the cheap so have a good look at any your considering
2)- Most are cheap what do you expect for less than £1500! You do get what you pay for but there is huge potential for smile per pound ratio!
3)- Cheap insurance i'm 23 have a years no claims on the car and insurance is £200
4)- Check the body/paint work, mine is the second best one i have ever seen and i seen a few, but comon problems arise from do it yourself spraying.
5)- Find out if the bonnet has a support, mine doesn't and this has caused problems with the bodywork bending then cracking the paint doh!!!
6)- Fix Or Repair Daily (FORD) engines, mine is has a 1979 1.6 Ford Mexico engine which produces about 100bhp and although it is light and lively (about 6.8 0-60)it is nearly 30 years old. A heavier, more reliable, faster option often found is the 2.0l pinto.
7)- GEARBOX, i bought my car with 2000 miles on it and have done 4000 in the last year or so and learnt on the way to le mans whilst traveling with an ultima that a 5 speed box is crucial!!!!! Mine hates doing anything more than 80 and 70 really doesn't feel comfortable! This is all sorted by having a 5th gear then cruising anywhere is fine
8)- Handling, yes they go round corners well, yes they drift beautifully given the right components but check the components, a dutton that has 1970's suspension isn't going to be that rapid round the bends, but saying that i have leaf springs on the rear and they work well.
9)- The later versions look much better with a more aggressive front end but unfortunately they all share the similarily pants rear ends including usually a collection of lights which have been refered to as 'disco lights'
I love my little dutton and for £2000 i haven't seen anything that would drive so well or turn so many heads. I say have a look don't expect too much cosmetically for the money they go on ebay, the dutton owners club is probably worth a look and bear in mind that if it does go wrong all the mechanical parts are from comonly avaliable sources.
Hope i haven't banged on for too long but if you want more honest advice i never mind telling everyone the pro's and con's of the cars
With a limited budget and being 22 at the time a dutton seemed to be the only realistic chance of getting a fun rear wheel drive car, thats previous owners hadn't been hairdressers! So after seeing a good one (£3500) with 160 bhp perfect condition I found Anjie my little purple demon for about £2000.
So after an ill-advised trip to le mans many lessons have been learnt
1)- Most pheatons are not well made, done on the cheap so have a good look at any your considering
2)- Most are cheap what do you expect for less than £1500! You do get what you pay for but there is huge potential for smile per pound ratio!
3)- Cheap insurance i'm 23 have a years no claims on the car and insurance is £200
4)- Check the body/paint work, mine is the second best one i have ever seen and i seen a few, but comon problems arise from do it yourself spraying.
5)- Find out if the bonnet has a support, mine doesn't and this has caused problems with the bodywork bending then cracking the paint doh!!!
6)- Fix Or Repair Daily (FORD) engines, mine is has a 1979 1.6 Ford Mexico engine which produces about 100bhp and although it is light and lively (about 6.8 0-60)it is nearly 30 years old. A heavier, more reliable, faster option often found is the 2.0l pinto.
7)- GEARBOX, i bought my car with 2000 miles on it and have done 4000 in the last year or so and learnt on the way to le mans whilst traveling with an ultima that a 5 speed box is crucial!!!!! Mine hates doing anything more than 80 and 70 really doesn't feel comfortable! This is all sorted by having a 5th gear then cruising anywhere is fine
8)- Handling, yes they go round corners well, yes they drift beautifully given the right components but check the components, a dutton that has 1970's suspension isn't going to be that rapid round the bends, but saying that i have leaf springs on the rear and they work well.
9)- The later versions look much better with a more aggressive front end but unfortunately they all share the similarily pants rear ends including usually a collection of lights which have been refered to as 'disco lights'
I love my little dutton and for £2000 i haven't seen anything that would drive so well or turn so many heads. I say have a look don't expect too much cosmetically for the money they go on ebay, the dutton owners club is probably worth a look and bear in mind that if it does go wrong all the mechanical parts are from comonly avaliable sources.
Hope i haven't banged on for too long but if you want more honest advice i never mind telling everyone the pro's and con's of the cars
I'm a big dutton fan .. as said above they offer excellent smiles per pound 
The later cars are bigger with more room in the cockpits (phaeton 3 and 4 and eagle p21 which is essentially the same car) but the earlier cars are prettier and had bedford CF van rear lights which work well
P3 and 4 had rear leaf springs and front was an amalgam of escort lower arm/antiroll bar and dutton top woshbones .. earlier cars had triumph front wishbones and 4 and 5link rear ends which made them much better handling cars
My own phaeton S3 went from 1600 xflow through modded 2 litre pinto through essex 3 litre V6. Great car. If you buy a dutton with reg number q106rca say hi from me
The later cars are bigger with more room in the cockpits (phaeton 3 and 4 and eagle p21 which is essentially the same car) but the earlier cars are prettier and had bedford CF van rear lights which work well
P3 and 4 had rear leaf springs and front was an amalgam of escort lower arm/antiroll bar and dutton top woshbones .. earlier cars had triumph front wishbones and 4 and 5link rear ends which made them much better handling cars
My own phaeton S3 went from 1600 xflow through modded 2 litre pinto through essex 3 litre V6. Great car. If you buy a dutton with reg number q106rca say hi from me
Yes , My S3 Phaeton was my daily transport for 5 years , got a 5 link rear end fitted to replace the springs and motorcycle shocks and it was a great advancement on the 'cart springs. Remember loosing the roof at 80 on the M25 almost 20 years ago while driving to Worthing in terrible snow conditions to have the live rear option fitted . When I moved to OZ the car moved to germany . Anyone with a smalt blue P3 with 5 link , Veglia instruments & rechfield seats and extended footwells - Hope you are having fun with it!
Sounds like a possible plan then!!
Whens the Harrogate Kitcar show trackcar?? Are you local to those parts??
After looking at insurance for something like a Melos or a Phaeton, Im definitely going to buy one as soon as possible...how can I say no to sooo much cheap fun with pennies insurance??
Whens the Harrogate Kitcar show trackcar?? Are you local to those parts??
After looking at insurance for something like a Melos or a Phaeton, Im definitely going to buy one as soon as possible...how can I say no to sooo much cheap fun with pennies insurance??
I built an S3 and originally had a Spitfire 1500 engine in it. A bit of rejigging meant we managed to shoehorn an 1800 Alfa engine in it. A bit heavy up front but lots of fun
It took me a while to recognise that Dutton's designs were quite flawed. For example the bonnet catches were woefully bad. Stopping in a hurry one day at a Zebra crossing I was mortified when the bonnet tilted up under braking, leaving me with no option that to get out the car in the High Street and close the damned thing.
I had quite a hairy accident in mine. Slippery road, rear wheel drive, inexperienced driver - ended up in a ditch. Apart from some fibreglass work the car didn't seem to object at all
I've got a real soft spot for them - was my first ever car. And although up close they can look rough as hell they offer so much flexibility for tinkering and modding.
Would love to know where EFE 996X got to
It took me a while to recognise that Dutton's designs were quite flawed. For example the bonnet catches were woefully bad. Stopping in a hurry one day at a Zebra crossing I was mortified when the bonnet tilted up under braking, leaving me with no option that to get out the car in the High Street and close the damned thing.
I had quite a hairy accident in mine. Slippery road, rear wheel drive, inexperienced driver - ended up in a ditch. Apart from some fibreglass work the car didn't seem to object at all
I've got a real soft spot for them - was my first ever car. And although up close they can look rough as hell they offer so much flexibility for tinkering and modding.
Would love to know where EFE 996X got to
Another couple of questions for you Dutton owners/Previous owners:
Cockpit size - I have a feeling that I will be able to fit in a Dutton Phaeton as Im not massively big around the waist and most of my size is shoulders...how accomadting (Im not expecting luxobarge room by no means) would it be for my lady (V-petite) and myself? (r-large)
Is there a boot? (doesnt need to be too big, just enough for a sports bag)
Is there any way to adjust ride height incase of ass scraping fat bastard moments?? (main worry)
First thing would be to remove 1.6 CF engine and replace with something a little more upto date like a Zetec 1.8/2.0 and gearbox or Vauxhall redtop (whats best cheapish g-box to mate upto said powerplants?)
Thats about it I think
Thanks again chaps
Cockpit size - I have a feeling that I will be able to fit in a Dutton Phaeton as Im not massively big around the waist and most of my size is shoulders...how accomadting (Im not expecting luxobarge room by no means) would it be for my lady (V-petite) and myself? (r-large
) Is there a boot? (doesnt need to be too big, just enough for a sports bag)
Is there any way to adjust ride height incase of ass scraping fat bastard moments?? (main worry)
First thing would be to remove 1.6 CF engine and replace with something a little more upto date like a Zetec 1.8/2.0 and gearbox or Vauxhall redtop (whats best cheapish g-box to mate upto said powerplants?)
Thats about it I think
Thanks again chaps
I believe the Zetec is the last ford block to carry the type 9 bellhousing pattern, so donor boxes are in a multitude of breaker yard sierras.
They do have boots, but the fuel tank is also in there so they're shallow .. but if you go for the bigger series 3/4 then you get a slightly bigger boot (the rear bodywork is extended to cover the leaf springs) and they have the bigger cockpits with separate seats rather than sitting against the rear bulkhead as on the earlier versions. The downside is the earlier smaller versions look nicest.
Ride heights purely depend on if it has adjustable platform dampers fitted at the front .. you can use spacers to lower the rear or use extended swinging shackles on the leaf springs to raise the rear.
They do have boots, but the fuel tank is also in there so they're shallow .. but if you go for the bigger series 3/4 then you get a slightly bigger boot (the rear bodywork is extended to cover the leaf springs) and they have the bigger cockpits with separate seats rather than sitting against the rear bulkhead as on the earlier versions. The downside is the earlier smaller versions look nicest.
Ride heights purely depend on if it has adjustable platform dampers fitted at the front .. you can use spacers to lower the rear or use extended swinging shackles on the leaf springs to raise the rear.
for the rear , just get hold of the rear live axle parts (trailing arms and panhard rods) for a locost - that is exactly what you are after , the live varient runs so much better than the leaf springs (and is much more fun to drive) should fit up relatively easily to a p3 chassis. beware for prop shafts running through the chassis rails when its "lowered"
and the alterations to get propper seats in are easy , put some sheet steel on the floor and remove the rear arches for the leaf springs and you have another 6" of travel for the seats .
even a 1300 kent is fun in these things!
Oh and I forgot to say , the boot will fit atleast 2 to 3 squashy bag , a hood and sidescreens
Dave
and the alterations to get propper seats in are easy , put some sheet steel on the floor and remove the rear arches for the leaf springs and you have another 6" of travel for the seats .
even a 1300 kent is fun in these things!
Oh and I forgot to say , the boot will fit atleast 2 to 3 squashy bag , a hood and sidescreens
Dave
Edited by ozzie dave on Sunday 4th June 04:26
Hi, andy's siter has quite a lot of info on Duttons, me an Pablo campaigned an S3 with 2ltr capri running gear, in sprints and auto testsvery sucesfuly with the Bristol Auto club.
www.andersensmith.freeserve.co.uk/series1.htm
www.andersensmith.freeserve.co.uk/series1.htm
Thanks for the info again fellas
If I can get a couple of soft bags and the wet weather kit in the boot then its definitely a good thing.
I cant see why I wouldnt fit in one to be honest, afterall I have drove a Metro
This is something I definitely want to do in the not too distant future
Would it be possible to swap a DS3 front end for a series 1 front end?
And what kind of bonnet support would it need? (Mentioned earlier!)
If I can get a couple of soft bags and the wet weather kit in the boot then its definitely a good thing.
I cant see why I wouldnt fit in one to be honest, afterall I have drove a Metro
This is something I definitely want to do in the not too distant future
Would it be possible to swap a DS3 front end for a series 1 front end?
And what kind of bonnet support would it need? (Mentioned earlier!)
As for size, I am 6' 2" and 15 stone, so not a small bloke and fitted in it no problem, with |Pablo (similar size, maybe a bit lighter)in the passenger seat, it was a tad cramped, but certainly not unbearable. I did have to "adjust" the pedal set up, with a grinder and welder though. The boot of an S3 will easily accomodate your intended luggage and the wet gear, although don't expect the wet gear to keep you dry, the doors have no catches and are designed to stay shut purely by wind pressure. New wearther kits are available, although expensive. Can't help with the bonnet thing, but from my experience with my S3 anything can be done with a bit of time thought and Isopon P38/Quick Glass. My bonnet had webbing straps to stop it falling too far forward, rather than a bonnet stay.
Just thinking about it, the bonnet will be an easy fix me thinks
I will be taking everything into consideration when looking to buy one and any adjustments I'll have done in time
My fiancee' is a petite lady so it should be too cramped when we're both i nthe car
As for the wet weather stuff...Im kind of already prepared for getting wet...doesnt really bother me anymore (Im the kind of person that drives in the rain with my window down and sunroof open )
Now Ive got to plan what engine option I'll be going for.....Id love an E30 M3 engine, but that would be a wee bit pricey
I will be taking everything into consideration when looking to buy one and any adjustments I'll have done in time
My fiancee' is a petite lady so it should be too cramped when we're both i nthe car
As for the wet weather stuff...Im kind of already prepared for getting wet...doesnt really bother me anymore
(Im the kind of person that drives in the rain with my window down and sunroof open ) Now Ive got to plan what engine option I'll be going for.....Id love an E30 M3 engine, but that would be a wee bit pricey
Simonelite501 said:
I think KISS is the watch word, the car is so light and basic, a standard 2 ltr Pinto with a 5 speed box, will be quite enough to scare the b'Jesus out of you!
KISS??????
For the engine, I think Im going to go with a 2ltr Zetec with a 5 speed g-box with some kind of quick shift (If I can)
I will be taking the Dutton (when purchased) to France at some point which means I have to have an engine that can accelerate well, but has motorway capabilities rather than screaming her nuts off at 70mph
The Dutton will be remaining english registered while in france...no worries there then
Ive noticed a lot of Duttons coming for sale recently, no doubt this can be attributed to the improved weather we're seeing?
I even spotted a Series 1 RV8 model (is it a series 1 or a B?)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DUTTON-PHAETON-
jagdpanther said:
KISS??????
Keep It Simple Stupid........not that I'm calling you stupid of course.
jagdpanther said:
I will be taking the Dutton (when purchased) to France at some point which means I have to have an engine that can accelerate well, but has motorway capabilities rather than screaming her nuts off at 70mph
Drive one with a big old Iron lump before you dismiss it completely.
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