Can a BEC get an age related plate?
Discussion
From doing a little research into registration etc, it seems that one of the major factors in deciding between a Q plate, new plate or age related is the use of "2 Major components" from a donor vehicle. The question is, does a bike engine count as 1 or 2 major components, given that gearbox and engine seem to be counted seperately?
I'm planning to build a Fury Fireblade, so there will be a donor Sierra providing some bits, and a Fireblade providing engine/gearbox.
So, how could I register it? Could the bike reg be used for a car? Are there sufficient bits from the Sierra to count?
As you may be able to tell, I'd really like to avoid a Q plate, as there's a cherished plate I'd ultimately like to use on the car and as far as I know you can't put one of those on a Q plated car.
Cheers,
Will O'Brien
B.A.R F1
I'm planning to build a Fury Fireblade, so there will be a donor Sierra providing some bits, and a Fireblade providing engine/gearbox.
So, how could I register it? Could the bike reg be used for a car? Are there sufficient bits from the Sierra to count?
As you may be able to tell, I'd really like to avoid a Q plate, as there's a cherished plate I'd ultimately like to use on the car and as far as I know you can't put one of those on a Q plated car.
Cheers,
Will O'Brien
B.A.R F1
I have heard of this being done, I was chatting to a guy at the Autosport show who had just registered his BEC with an age related plate. First he said, you need a very helpfull VRO employee (I'm trying to remember which office he used) and secondly he said he kept everything from the donor vehicle. VIN plate from the engine bay, VIN plate from the chassis which he cut out, all the original doc's etc.
You could also go new plate, if you can prove that all donor parts have been reconditioned to an "As New Standard" (not sure how many donor parts you can do this with) On my Ultima only the engine block is used as a donor part.
The big problem is that there can be a different interpretation from one office to the next.
Good luck
Paul
You could also go new plate, if you can prove that all donor parts have been reconditioned to an "As New Standard" (not sure how many donor parts you can do this with) On my Ultima only the engine block is used as a donor part.
The big problem is that there can be a different interpretation from one office to the next.
Good luck
Paul
If you are converting a Car Engined Car to a Bike Engined Car then you do not need to change the reg
If you are building a new BEC then as long as only one part is reconditioned then you can get a age related plate. As the Bike engine includes the gearbox and clutch it is normal for a new kit (Caterham, Westfield, ST, Fury etc etc) to have an age related plate.
Derek
If you are building a new BEC then as long as only one part is reconditioned then you can get a age related plate. As the Bike engine includes the gearbox and clutch it is normal for a new kit (Caterham, Westfield, ST, Fury etc etc) to have an age related plate.
Derek
wob,
Firstly, give me a softie job and I'll tell you!
More seriously, I believe you are allowed two reconditioned parts to be able to register a kit as new. But you need to be able to prove that the parts have been reconditioned to as new condition. I would expect the engine and gearbox to count as one, but that may be down to the discretion of the VRO.
Also as has been mentioned, it would be worth keeping any evidence of donor vehicles, but I think you need a V5 of the donor vehicle to get an age related plate - i.e. prove that you have taken an entire Sierra and chopped it up if you see what I mean. A friend did this with Dax V8 he built.
Hope this helps, drop me a line about the job
Moomin
Firstly, give me a softie job and I'll tell you!
More seriously, I believe you are allowed two reconditioned parts to be able to register a kit as new. But you need to be able to prove that the parts have been reconditioned to as new condition. I would expect the engine and gearbox to count as one, but that may be down to the discretion of the VRO.
Also as has been mentioned, it would be worth keeping any evidence of donor vehicles, but I think you need a V5 of the donor vehicle to get an age related plate - i.e. prove that you have taken an entire Sierra and chopped it up if you see what I mean. A friend did this with Dax V8 he built.
Hope this helps, drop me a line about the job
Moomin
Sorry moomin, no softie jobs here, just well 'ard ones...
Thanks for the advice folks, sounds like I'll be OK using a donor Sierra and a reconditioned as new Fireblade engine, and hope that I get an understanding VRO. As for a new plate, the "as new" definition sounds pretty woolly - if I recondition the bits myself, I don't think it's good enough for me to just say they're as new is it?
Cheers,
Will O'Brien
B.A.R F1
Thanks for the advice folks, sounds like I'll be OK using a donor Sierra and a reconditioned as new Fireblade engine, and hope that I get an understanding VRO. As for a new plate, the "as new" definition sounds pretty woolly - if I recondition the bits myself, I don't think it's good enough for me to just say they're as new is it?
Cheers,
Will O'Brien
B.A.R F1
Will,
Oh well, if you don't ask etc.
Some of the guys on the Yahoo BEC list have done this to good effect. If you document everything you do to refurb the engine, and go armed with stuff like Haynes manuals to help give evidence, you should be able to do it.
Of course if you get age related, you will still be restricted as to use of a cherish plate, as it may still betray the 'age' of the vehicle. i.e. you break a C-reg Sierra for the build, you won't be able to put your cherish "W11LOB" plate on it.
M.
Oh well, if you don't ask etc.
Some of the guys on the Yahoo BEC list have done this to good effect. If you document everything you do to refurb the engine, and go armed with stuff like Haynes manuals to help give evidence, you should be able to do it.
Of course if you get age related, you will still be restricted as to use of a cherish plate, as it may still betray the 'age' of the vehicle. i.e. you break a C-reg Sierra for the build, you won't be able to put your cherish "W11LOB" plate on it.
M.
As for a new plate, the "as new" definition sounds pretty woolly - if I recondition the bits myself, I don't think it's good enough for me to just say they're as new is it?
Cheers,
Will O'Brien
B.A.R F1
What is to stop your local friendly engine builder, kit supplier, engineering firm or next door nieghbour doing you an official looking reciept saying xyz has been re-conditioned to an "As New Standard"
Just a thought, not recommending you take this action
Don't know if this will help but you're only allowed ONE reconditioned major component regardless whether it is a car or bike engined vehicle! If you use everything else brand new but have one reconditioned component, you'll get a "new" (current year) plate. If you use TWO major components from a single UK registered donor, you'll get an age-related plate of the same age as the donor. The DVLA have laid it all out in their leaflet "INF 26" called "Guide to the registration of rebuilt cars, radically altered cars and kit cars".
Their list of "major components" for a car is:
"axles" (NOTE, front AND rear must both be used to count as 1 major component.
"suspension" (again, front AND rear)
"engine"
"transmission"
"steering"
"Chassis"
for a bike, the major components are:
"frame"
"forks"
"wheels"
"Engine/gearbox".
This means they count the bike engine and box as ONE major component so that should, in theory, make it impossible for anyone to get an age-related plate on a bike-engined car (unless it's a 3 wheeler and you can use some of the other bike major components).
HOWEVER, as lots of people have already said, there's plenty of age-related bike-engine cars out there which means (as has been said) the Vehicle Registry Officers make the rules up as they go along!
Strictly speaking, however, you could put a bike engine in the donor car and then break the donor to make your kit. That way, the bike engine will have come out of the donor. (so to speak!) You have to send the donor's V5 off to Swansea with a change of engine number and capacity (the bike engine number and capacity) and when you get it back, hey presto, you have the donor "car's" engine and whatever else you want to use. That said, the Vehicle registry Offices reserve the right to inspect a car that has been put in for a change of engine number so you might end up having to show them it!
Good luck!
Their list of "major components" for a car is:
"axles" (NOTE, front AND rear must both be used to count as 1 major component.
"suspension" (again, front AND rear)
"engine"
"transmission"
"steering"
"Chassis"
for a bike, the major components are:
"frame"
"forks"
"wheels"
"Engine/gearbox".
This means they count the bike engine and box as ONE major component so that should, in theory, make it impossible for anyone to get an age-related plate on a bike-engined car (unless it's a 3 wheeler and you can use some of the other bike major components).
HOWEVER, as lots of people have already said, there's plenty of age-related bike-engine cars out there which means (as has been said) the Vehicle Registry Officers make the rules up as they go along!
Strictly speaking, however, you could put a bike engine in the donor car and then break the donor to make your kit. That way, the bike engine will have come out of the donor. (so to speak!) You have to send the donor's V5 off to Swansea with a change of engine number and capacity (the bike engine number and capacity) and when you get it back, hey presto, you have the donor "car's" engine and whatever else you want to use. That said, the Vehicle registry Offices reserve the right to inspect a car that has been put in for a change of engine number so you might end up having to show them it!
Good luck!
does it matter which "major components" you use though? if you dont have to use the engine, why not just the steering and axles? need to get me head round this so i can decide whether to get a donor or just buy the bits i need and settle with a Q. i would prefer an age plate so i a can change it for private plate later, but it would be a pain to get a donor just for a couple of bits. why does they have to be so damn difficult. 
Nope!
ANY 2 major components are OK so you could use the "axles" and "suspension" (whatever they are!) from the donor car or the "Steering" and "Transmission" if you preferred. I wouldn't get too hung up about what constitutes an "axle" to be honest. Most VRO inspectors are not engineers - they're civil servants and they feel much happier if they can tick the boxes on their forms because someone has written the words they're expecting to see on the application! They aren't really interested in esoteric arguments like "define an axle"! I've seen people put a complete Jag rear end (diff, callipers, discs, half shafts, lower arms and the 4 springs and dampers) on a car and claim to have used the donor Sierra's "axles" and "suspension" (and get away with it!) This is partly because most VRO inspectors wouldn't know a Sierra "axle" if they were run over by one and partly because, to disallow your claim, they would have to know that someone hadn't put a Jag back end under the donor Sierra before you broke it up. Remember it's how the donor car was when you broke it and NOT how the donor car was designed that counts. The same actually goes for the engine. If someone really had put the bike engine in the donor Sierra first, you could claim to have used the donor Sierra's engine! In the past, it was not uncommon for people to send the Sierra's V5 back to Swansea with a change of engine number and engine capacity (without actually doing it) just so they could show that the bike engine had come out of the Sierra. Now that road tax is based on engine size (for older cars) VROs often (but not always) ask to inspect the car when they get an application for an engine number change that takes it into a lower tax bracket so people who employ this "ruse" stand a much better chance of being caught out!
ANY 2 major components are OK so you could use the "axles" and "suspension" (whatever they are!) from the donor car or the "Steering" and "Transmission" if you preferred. I wouldn't get too hung up about what constitutes an "axle" to be honest. Most VRO inspectors are not engineers - they're civil servants and they feel much happier if they can tick the boxes on their forms because someone has written the words they're expecting to see on the application! They aren't really interested in esoteric arguments like "define an axle"! I've seen people put a complete Jag rear end (diff, callipers, discs, half shafts, lower arms and the 4 springs and dampers) on a car and claim to have used the donor Sierra's "axles" and "suspension" (and get away with it!) This is partly because most VRO inspectors wouldn't know a Sierra "axle" if they were run over by one and partly because, to disallow your claim, they would have to know that someone hadn't put a Jag back end under the donor Sierra before you broke it up. Remember it's how the donor car was when you broke it and NOT how the donor car was designed that counts. The same actually goes for the engine. If someone really had put the bike engine in the donor Sierra first, you could claim to have used the donor Sierra's engine! In the past, it was not uncommon for people to send the Sierra's V5 back to Swansea with a change of engine number and engine capacity (without actually doing it) just so they could show that the bike engine had come out of the Sierra. Now that road tax is based on engine size (for older cars) VROs often (but not always) ask to inspect the car when they get an application for an engine number change that takes it into a lower tax bracket so people who employ this "ruse" stand a much better chance of being caught out!
Gassing Station | Kit Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff