RS200 Retro RS - Focus Mk3 RS
Discussion
I have what may be an unanswerable question, but at least I may be able to get some enlightened views here, Possibly not?!
I currently have a Mk3 focus RS, I wanted it and bought it 4.5years ago ish and still enjoy it. Its also still worth similar to what I paid for it, and that was always the intention, to buy a car that would retain a large % of its value and then appreciate in later years.
When I bought it I took a loan out over 5 years and used that to help facilitate the purchase, it’s a personal loan so not linked with the car, hence I can sell the car tomorrow with no issues. The loan has 6-7 payments left. Intention was to keep the RS and use it as a pension pot when I am 55-60 (37 now) and hope it does similar to what the RS Escorts and Sierras have done. I've kept it bone stock which is always my preference and this should help it appreciate in value.
Plan was to do this 3 times over a 15 year ish period and hopefully have been able to have some cars I wanted anyway and have a decent tax free cash lump come retirement.
However I am getting a bit nervous with the Focus RS as you do hear of stock cars blowing engines, also I have an idea that, as a lot more mk rs’s were produced, that they won’t ever do what the Escorts and Sierras have done in terms of long term value. Additionally I am not keen on getting another large loan early next year what with the current goings on in the world.
So, I have been thinking about selling the RS at the start of next year and using the money from it to fund an RS200 RS Retro kit car build, with the thought being the RS200 kit car would appreciate as per the Focus RS or similar.
So sell the focus RS, buy a MK2 focus ST and use that as my daily (working from home and doing sod all mileage at the minute) then purchase and begin building the RS200 and utilise the MK2 focus ST engine etc when ready and drop it into RS200.
At the same time the money I was paying out monthly for the loan on the Focus RS I can save to purchase another car when the Focus ST needs to be lending its engine to the RS200.
I think what it boils down to is, do we think the current and future values of the RS200 will be akin to what the Focus RS will be. I looked hard at the Lister Bell Stratos’s but the wait time and build cost have kinda put me off. However the residuals of built cars etc are very very good. I think you could probably easily build one and sell it the next day for more than it owes you, granted some of that is a supply and demand issue, as you can’t even go on a waiting list for them currently as Lister Bells order books are full.
Having spoken to RS Retro and gotten their price lists etc I think I can be in a self build RS200 for circa £35k.
Any pertinent thought or comments?
I currently have a Mk3 focus RS, I wanted it and bought it 4.5years ago ish and still enjoy it. Its also still worth similar to what I paid for it, and that was always the intention, to buy a car that would retain a large % of its value and then appreciate in later years.
When I bought it I took a loan out over 5 years and used that to help facilitate the purchase, it’s a personal loan so not linked with the car, hence I can sell the car tomorrow with no issues. The loan has 6-7 payments left. Intention was to keep the RS and use it as a pension pot when I am 55-60 (37 now) and hope it does similar to what the RS Escorts and Sierras have done. I've kept it bone stock which is always my preference and this should help it appreciate in value.
Plan was to do this 3 times over a 15 year ish period and hopefully have been able to have some cars I wanted anyway and have a decent tax free cash lump come retirement.
However I am getting a bit nervous with the Focus RS as you do hear of stock cars blowing engines, also I have an idea that, as a lot more mk rs’s were produced, that they won’t ever do what the Escorts and Sierras have done in terms of long term value. Additionally I am not keen on getting another large loan early next year what with the current goings on in the world.
So, I have been thinking about selling the RS at the start of next year and using the money from it to fund an RS200 RS Retro kit car build, with the thought being the RS200 kit car would appreciate as per the Focus RS or similar.
So sell the focus RS, buy a MK2 focus ST and use that as my daily (working from home and doing sod all mileage at the minute) then purchase and begin building the RS200 and utilise the MK2 focus ST engine etc when ready and drop it into RS200.
At the same time the money I was paying out monthly for the loan on the Focus RS I can save to purchase another car when the Focus ST needs to be lending its engine to the RS200.
I think what it boils down to is, do we think the current and future values of the RS200 will be akin to what the Focus RS will be. I looked hard at the Lister Bell Stratos’s but the wait time and build cost have kinda put me off. However the residuals of built cars etc are very very good. I think you could probably easily build one and sell it the next day for more than it owes you, granted some of that is a supply and demand issue, as you can’t even go on a waiting list for them currently as Lister Bells order books are full.
Having spoken to RS Retro and gotten their price lists etc I think I can be in a self build RS200 for circa £35k.
Any pertinent thought or comments?
B - yes it’s that or the 4pot zetec/duratec from the st170. I mean the st220 v6 engine from the mondeo will go in, engine options are pretty open. Could have a 1.8tsi from vw if you wanted so it’s the same cc as the orig. not sure it would sound right with the v6 in it really
Edited by 28hodge on Wednesday 24th August 20:34
1- I kinda agree, but I guess the basis is, what do we think the focus rs will likely appreciate towards in terms of value in 25 years time? I can’t see them getting to the same figure as the escorts and sierras but I may be wrong.
I’d also think the mk1 rs is likely to always be more valuable and possibly the mk2’s as well?
I’d also think the mk1 rs is likely to always be more valuable and possibly the mk2’s as well?
Christ, this is the most speculative kind of man maths I've seen.
I had £42k 7 years ago. So rather than invest in an RS focus. I bought a BTL and let my tenants pay the mortgage. In 8 years time it will be mortgage free.
If I sold today, I would clear £100k due to recent house price increases.
In that time, I've owned and driven 3 cars. None of which were as quick or desirable as either cars you describe. But then I never worried about anything going bang.
Although I have a car justified as an investment. Bought a mk1 mx5 in 2009 for 1500 quid. It's worth at least 1499 quid now.
I had £42k 7 years ago. So rather than invest in an RS focus. I bought a BTL and let my tenants pay the mortgage. In 8 years time it will be mortgage free.
If I sold today, I would clear £100k due to recent house price increases.
In that time, I've owned and driven 3 cars. None of which were as quick or desirable as either cars you describe. But then I never worried about anything going bang.
Although I have a car justified as an investment. Bought a mk1 mx5 in 2009 for 1500 quid. It's worth at least 1499 quid now.
Driver101 said:
There are too many MK3 Focus RS for values to soar. There has been too many buyers predicting future classic that there is a lot stored away.
This is mainly I think we’re my heads at, I don’t think the Focus rs is ever going to do what other rs’s have in terms of value. It’s done well as it’s depreciated very little in the 4 and a half years I’ve had it and the 40 odd thousand miles I’ve put on it. So to that extent it’s much better than many other cars which would have lost a lot more value.I just can’t come to a answer as to if a Kit car replica of a rs200 would hold its value and go up similar to the mk3 rs focus.
Whether the build quality of it will allow it to still be ok in 30 years is also an issue.
Pit Pony said:
Christ, this is the most speculative kind of man maths I've seen.
I had £42k 7 years ago. So rather than invest in an RS focus. I bought a BTL and let my tenants pay the mortgage. In 8 years time it will be mortgage free.
If I sold today, I would clear £100k due to recent house price increases.
In that time, I've owned and driven 3 cars. None of which were as quick or desirable as either cars you describe. But then I never worried about anything going bang.
Although I have a car justified as an investment. Bought a mk1 mx5 in 2009 for 1500 quid. It's worth at least 1499 quid now.
I get your point, but I never had the money saved to buy a focus rs 4 odd years ago. I borrowed a lump and used my bonus from work to facility the purchase, the idea being it would lose little value over the period of time the loan was outstanding and then I’d have equity in it. I had £42k 7 years ago. So rather than invest in an RS focus. I bought a BTL and let my tenants pay the mortgage. In 8 years time it will be mortgage free.
If I sold today, I would clear £100k due to recent house price increases.
In that time, I've owned and driven 3 cars. None of which were as quick or desirable as either cars you describe. But then I never worried about anything going bang.
Although I have a car justified as an investment. Bought a mk1 mx5 in 2009 for 1500 quid. It's worth at least 1499 quid now.
I also live in the Lake District, buying a house for £42k back in 2009 would have been hard work. But again, I do understand your point.
My brother sold his mk1 mx5 18months ago. He’s still upset about it
One thing driving the values of the ListerBell Stratos is supply and demand as you've noted. But the demand side of that equation is hugely based on the quality on offer. Folk are waiting 2 years to get onto the waiting list and pay a deposit because the end product is a top quality, desirable product in itself.. not because they think they will do ok financially from getting one ANOTHER 2 or 3 years down the line .
I guess the question I would ask is, is that the same situation with the RS200 Retro RS car?
I like rally cars, I remember RS200's when they were out in the wild and have actually been a passenger in one on a trackday. I'd not heard of the RS200 Retro RS (that might just be my bad tho) and, having just looked, didn't feel any great desire to investigate any further. I did order a ListerBell tho.
I guess the question I would ask is, is that the same situation with the RS200 Retro RS car?
I like rally cars, I remember RS200's when they were out in the wild and have actually been a passenger in one on a trackday. I'd not heard of the RS200 Retro RS (that might just be my bad tho) and, having just looked, didn't feel any great desire to investigate any further. I did order a ListerBell tho.
Edited by renmure on Wednesday 24th August 21:27
Not sure why you think a kit car is going to become some future appreciating classic?
If you want an RS200 clone - buy one, but buy it because you like it - not because it’s some sort asset . Bit like buying a good quality AC Cobra rep - they are decent and are close or better than the original AC’s
I personally think the legendary RS cars ended with the cossies - but maybe that’s my age (50’s)
If you want an RS200 clone - buy one, but buy it because you like it - not because it’s some sort asset . Bit like buying a good quality AC Cobra rep - they are decent and are close or better than the original AC’s
I personally think the legendary RS cars ended with the cossies - but maybe that’s my age (50’s)
I’d agree about building something to enjoy, life’s too short.
Almost impossible to say if the RS will appreciate like the previous cars, most of the owners think so and do their best to talk them up.
The other Focus RS models had something iconic about them which I personally don’t see in the Mk3.
Almost impossible to say if the RS will appreciate like the previous cars, most of the owners think so and do their best to talk them up.
The other Focus RS models had something iconic about them which I personally don’t see in the Mk3.
even if it is a bit risky. A big thing from the cosworth era was , they become real cheep. Were massively stolen , crashed, at one point uninsurable, bought for running gear. So numbers dropped massively. But had a good racing history. And then we went through a period where the 90s 20 yr olds that could never obtain one.. had become 40+ with a decent bit of cash for a toy and, boom the prices went crazy.
Best prices i can remember, were £4k for 2drs, £3k for reasonable 4drs ( tho ive seen them for half that ) And some ropey escorts at £8k! But more around £12k for good ones.
Engines fetch 10k these days! Double what i paid for my sapphire.
Best prices i can remember, were £4k for 2drs, £3k for reasonable 4drs ( tho ive seen them for half that ) And some ropey escorts at £8k! But more around £12k for good ones.
Engines fetch 10k these days! Double what i paid for my sapphire.
Edited by FilH on Friday 9th September 20:45
C70R said:
I'd suggest that car speculation probably isn't the game for you, particularly not if you have to borrow from banks and spend your bonus just to speculate on future values.
Ok, When i bought the Focus i had about £10k equity in my car, i bought the focus and took a loan and spent my money, from work to buy it. i now have (taking the interest of the loan into account) circa 24k equity in the car. Most cars i could have bought would have depreciated a lot in comparison, we all need a car, so buying the slowest depreciating one is always helpful.Very few people own the car they sit in, most are PCP or leased. so to that end. i really struggle to agree with your statement. but each to their own.
So,
Ive built a full costing sheet and then wanged a decent lump of contingency into it for safety, full build cost £42k for the rs200 using a donor Audi TT 225 BAM engine.
Have 2 first hand sales data and neither have sold for less than £65k. I might buy one build it, learn some errors, sell it and use it to part fund the 2nd and build it have learnt from the first.
Is that even more daft speculative man maths?
Ive built a full costing sheet and then wanged a decent lump of contingency into it for safety, full build cost £42k for the rs200 using a donor Audi TT 225 BAM engine.
Have 2 first hand sales data and neither have sold for less than £65k. I might buy one build it, learn some errors, sell it and use it to part fund the 2nd and build it have learnt from the first.
Is that even more daft speculative man maths?
28hodge said:
So,
Ive built a full costing sheet and then wanged a decent lump of contingency into it for safety, full build cost £42k for the rs200 using a donor Audi TT 225 BAM engine.
Have 2 first hand sales data and neither have sold for less than £65k. I might buy one build it, learn some errors, sell it and use it to part fund the 2nd and build it have learnt from the first.
Is that even more daft speculative man maths?
When explaining why you could make money buying a ListerBell kit because the values self up really well to supply and demand and quality I askedIve built a full costing sheet and then wanged a decent lump of contingency into it for safety, full build cost £42k for the rs200 using a donor Audi TT 225 BAM engine.
Have 2 first hand sales data and neither have sold for less than £65k. I might buy one build it, learn some errors, sell it and use it to part fund the 2nd and build it have learnt from the first.
Is that even more daft speculative man maths?
renmure said:
I guess the question I would ask is, is that the same situation with the RS200 Retro RS car?
So if the genuine answer is that you could own one for £42k and sell it for at least £65k then you’d be daft not to renmure said:
So if the genuine answer is that you could own one for £42k and sell it for at least £65k then you’d be daft not to
sounds 'cheap' in todays world, if you can get a good rep/tribute RS for that, so agreed with renmure.or not so exact as a good rep something like this it seems on a MR2 base, but with cosworth engine?
https://www.carandclassic.com/car/C1468233
Gassing Station | Kit Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff