Ginetta G4 vs TVR?
Discussion
Although my beautiful TVR S3 has done me proud for the last few years I am very tempted to buy a Dare/Ginetta G4 next year.
Has anyone gone from a TVR (or similar) to a G4? If so, what are your thoughts?
I understand that the 1800 engine has a 0-60 of about 6.5 seconds. Am I right? Does the 2 litre option improve on this much, as I want my next car to be faster than the S3 which also does about 6.5 secs to 60mph.
Has anyone gone from a TVR (or similar) to a G4? If so, what are your thoughts?
I understand that the 1800 engine has a 0-60 of about 6.5 seconds. Am I right? Does the 2 litre option improve on this much, as I want my next car to be faster than the S3 which also does about 6.5 secs to 60mph.
Hi Heath,
Can't help with the S3/G4 comparison, but regarding performance, that depends on engine spec as well as size. 1800cc comes in 150bhp and 180bhp versions with 2 litre in 165bhp or 195bhp versions.
Don't know about 1800 versions, but unofficial figures I have for 2 litre is 0-60 in just over 5 seconds for 165bhp and in just under 5 seconds with 195bhp.
Brooke Kensington at Bicester (see ads on Pistonheads)at your nearest Dare Ginetta dealers so why not have a word with them?
Can't help with the S3/G4 comparison, but regarding performance, that depends on engine spec as well as size. 1800cc comes in 150bhp and 180bhp versions with 2 litre in 165bhp or 195bhp versions.
Don't know about 1800 versions, but unofficial figures I have for 2 litre is 0-60 in just over 5 seconds for 165bhp and in just under 5 seconds with 195bhp.
Brooke Kensington at Bicester (see ads on Pistonheads)at your nearest Dare Ginetta dealers so why not have a word with them?
and, I think the G4 has a better track record--it eats the Elise for lunch! 
The G4 wins because you can get a new G4 through www.goginetta.com here in the USA.
The Ginetta is even smaller and lighter than the TVR and, its mechanicals are proven Ford products.
Next?
The Ginetta is even smaller and lighter than the TVR and, its mechanicals are proven Ford products.
Next?
They are so different you can't really compare them. Trevors are effectively a british muscle car. A sports car. The G4 is a light weight race car. Aimed at totally different markets also.
FWIW, I like Trevors. The Tuscan is gorgeous and barkingly fast. I also like the Tamora as it reminds me of a modern Griffith. They are just pure unapologetic brute power.
As for not having a race pedigree there is the Tuscan challenge one make series which is very entertaining to watch as you would imagine with very light cars with 400bhp. There are also a few Tuscan R's running in the British GT championship along with the insane Speed 12's.
Then again you have the G4's that get their performance mainly from their light weight which also makes them very nimble. More like an Elise of a Lotus 7 than anything else.
Depends what you want. The track day enthusiast in me would take the G4 every time. However as a sports road car I'd take a Tuscan. As I say, very different cars.
FWIW, I like Trevors. The Tuscan is gorgeous and barkingly fast. I also like the Tamora as it reminds me of a modern Griffith. They are just pure unapologetic brute power.
As for not having a race pedigree there is the Tuscan challenge one make series which is very entertaining to watch as you would imagine with very light cars with 400bhp. There are also a few Tuscan R's running in the British GT championship along with the insane Speed 12's.
Then again you have the G4's that get their performance mainly from their light weight which also makes them very nimble. More like an Elise of a Lotus 7 than anything else.
Depends what you want. The track day enthusiast in me would take the G4 every time. However as a sports road car I'd take a Tuscan. As I say, very different cars.
I think the Ginetta has competed against a broader range of cars than the TVR (over the last 40 years). The Tuscan challenge is a one make series--which I don't think enhances racing pedigree.
I am curious though; is the Ginetta a much harder road car than the TVR Tuscan for example?
I am curious though; is the Ginetta a much harder road car than the TVR Tuscan for example?
Hmm, I think you're missing the point a little. You're comparing a track car with a sports car which are completely different animals. The only things TVR make at the moment that could technically be termed track cars as they were built for that purpose from the ground up are the Tuscan R (very different to the standard road Tuscan) and the Speed 12. Both are barkingly fast and very capable race machines. They are available as road cars but are exceptionally rare. They're also both horrifically expensive.
Pedigree/heritage - I don't really want to get into a pi**ing contest over as I really don't give a damn about it and would rather buy a car on it's merits now rather than whether is won a few races 30 years ago. Nice that it has a bloodline, but not really any use to anybody other than making an owner feel smug.
Finally, TVR have been around for quite a while now and have been involved in racing to some degree for a very long time. Not something that might be apparent outside the UK though as they don't seem to travel far ( reliability issues?
). They also have a very loyal band of followers as can be seen at any track hosting a Challenge or GT race as the car park is invaribly full of TVR's. They even have a 'budget' series in the form of the Tasmin challenge which tends to be very entertaining (had to mention that as I have a friend who races in it).
I go to watch a lot of racing and particulaly enjoy historics and I honestly cannot remember the last time I saw a G4 being raced... *shrugs* Seems a shame really.
>> Edited by juansolo on Monday 23 December 09:37
Pedigree/heritage - I don't really want to get into a pi**ing contest over as I really don't give a damn about it and would rather buy a car on it's merits now rather than whether is won a few races 30 years ago. Nice that it has a bloodline, but not really any use to anybody other than making an owner feel smug.
Finally, TVR have been around for quite a while now and have been involved in racing to some degree for a very long time. Not something that might be apparent outside the UK though as they don't seem to travel far ( reliability issues?
). They also have a very loyal band of followers as can be seen at any track hosting a Challenge or GT race as the car park is invaribly full of TVR's. They even have a 'budget' series in the form of the Tasmin challenge which tends to be very entertaining (had to mention that as I have a friend who races in it). I go to watch a lot of racing and particulaly enjoy historics and I honestly cannot remember the last time I saw a G4 being raced... *shrugs* Seems a shame really.
>> Edited by juansolo on Monday 23 December 09:37
Do you think PIB knows that you can get a Ginetta G4 through www.goginetta.com?
Yeah, I mentioned importing Ginetta's as being a car that should be allowed for import yet they are available in the US. I should of thought of a better example. What I mean is that a ginetta with it's engine in it could be tricky to import if the customs people don't think it is 25+ years old or was imported in component form to make it legal.
Seeing that the TVR you mention is an older spec it is certainly a different comparison from it to a ginetta than todays TVR's to a Ginetta which are pretty lean and powerful.
Seeing that the TVR you mention is an older spec it is certainly a different comparison from it to a ginetta than todays TVR's to a Ginetta which are pretty lean and powerful.
JS, don't you think there will be a bigger market for lightweight sportscars such as the Elise/G4 compared to teh relatively overweight Carrera, Ferrari 360 Viper and Corvette?
I don't view the TVR as being overweight, but the G4 weighs a lot less!
*shrugs* dunno. The S1 Elise sold like mad as there was nothing like it and TBH there still isn't. It's such a complete package; suprisingly roomy and comfortable, perfect driving position, the lid comes off and it's superb on the road. It also appealed to the trackday nuts as it's light, hoogely communicative and basically a top circuit machine. Finally it appeals to the hairdressers who like to polish it and generally own a Lotus because of the image. You can talk all day about Ginnetta but no non-petrolhead has heard of them (sad but true fact). Oh, and most importantly, the cost in the region of £25k which was nicely accessable to a hooge amount of people.
Ferrari's, Porsches, etc appeal to a totally different market. Basically fat buisnessmen buy Porkers and Ferrari's these days and therefore they've evolved to cater for that market. The 996 has more in common with a BMW M5 or an AMG Merc than anthing Lotus or Ginnetta make. It's HOOOOOOGE, plush and is fitted with a raft of electonic aids to help keep the average buyer of them on the tarmac when they inevitably run out of talent. The 993RS was the last great 911 as far as I'm concerned... Actually the 968CS was a belter too... Shame they don't make anything like that now.
Sadly the Ferrari's are going this way also. I had a sit behind the frankly enourmous steering wheel of a 360 a year or so ago, in a large leather seat and it just oozed luxo-barge. I actually didn't like it at all.
Oh and don't get me started on the gearbox! FFS the paddles should move with the wheel, video games can do it, why can't Ferrari? Besides, the event of driving a Ferrari includes that big polished gate and gearknob. That's part of the fun.
355, manual box, targa top, race seats, half cage and harnesses... Much more like a Ferrari should be... In fact just give me a 355 challenge car or an F40 and I'd be very happy thankyouverymuch.
Trevors are a totally different kettle of fish though. Reasonably accessable at £35k+ Ballistically quick. Basically a British muscle car that doesn't actually handle too shabbily. Totally different market again though for them. In the scheme of things the likes of the TVR are not particulaly heavy and the silly torque and power ratios soon even that out anyhow.
Where does this leave the Ginetta? It isn't the allrounder that the Elise is and the trackday market tend to by Caterfields because they simply offer the best value package for track work this side of a single seater. You just don't see them.
Just to throw a wildcard into all this Noble come along and build the M12. Big power, light, handling to die for and a price tag that isn't too hard to swallow. A very special car and one that, like the Lotus, is an all-rounder. Quite rightly Noble can't build them fast enough and there is now a substantial waiting list.
If you want to shift cars you've got to appeal to the widest possible market. The S1 Elise hit the nail on the head, as has the Noble. All the others mentioned are simply too specialised to compete (actually there is a really big market for Porkers here, but that's down to the badge and not the product IMO).
>> Edited by juansolo on Sunday 12th January 21:47
The Ginetta wins this debate in the USA because you can't get the Elise (maybe never) and the TVR isn't available either.
Still wish there was a comparison test between the Caterham, G4, Elise and Westfield. Did you know that 3 of the 4 cars mentioned are readily available in the USA?
Still wish there was a comparison test between the Caterham, G4, Elise and Westfield. Did you know that 3 of the 4 cars mentioned are readily available in the USA?
Between my brother and myself we have 2 Westfields and an S135 S1 Elise. I've driven Caterhams also and passengered in many other Caterfields be they bike engined Westies, Superlight Caterhams, etc. Only driven one TVR which was a race car and true to form it broke down on me 
(fuel pump packed in) What a noise though! Also in being fairly involved in trackdays for several years now I've had chances to ride in and occasionally pootle around in a variety of very nice machinery.
I'd LOVE to have a go of a G4 around a circuit but unfortunately the opportunity has never arisen
But I can comment on the others to a degree.
If I had to choose to only have one car it would simply be the S135 for all the reasons mentioned in the other post. The Caterfields are far too biased toward track work to get a look in on them when it comes to road usage. Counting in their favour though, as soon as you hit a circuit there is little out there that is more fun than a Caterfield.
We've toyed a few times with selling one of the Westies and buying a single seater but it all depends on what you want from a track car. Personally I like having passengers as it adds to the fun (especially when later you get to passenger in something interesting) and I like the way that a Caterfield handles. Grip is not my main priority, nor is outright speed as this can prove to be a bind at times with the mixture of machinery you get on a trackday. The Caterfields, particulaly the likes of the Caterham Superlight (not the R's) and the Westies are the perfect compromise for us.
Only by chance are both our cars Westfields. They could have easily been Caterhams or Sylvas. They were just the best cars available that matched our requirements spec wise and budget.
That's not to say that the idea of 170mph, big slicks and downforce doesn't appeal and one day I suspect we'll end up doing this anyhow just to get it out of our systems. Saying that, I'm still kicking myself for not buying a Mk2 RS2000 that was for sale recently. Caged with all the right bits and dirt cheap. Would have made a top fun track/airfield car and the Escort appeals much more than the single seater in terms of practicality and goonability. SHOULD have bought it
(fuel pump packed in) What a noise though! Also in being fairly involved in trackdays for several years now I've had chances to ride in and occasionally pootle around in a variety of very nice machinery. I'd LOVE to have a go of a G4 around a circuit but unfortunately the opportunity has never arisen
But I can comment on the others to a degree. If I had to choose to only have one car it would simply be the S135 for all the reasons mentioned in the other post. The Caterfields are far too biased toward track work to get a look in on them when it comes to road usage. Counting in their favour though, as soon as you hit a circuit there is little out there that is more fun than a Caterfield.
We've toyed a few times with selling one of the Westies and buying a single seater but it all depends on what you want from a track car. Personally I like having passengers as it adds to the fun (especially when later you get to passenger in something interesting) and I like the way that a Caterfield handles. Grip is not my main priority, nor is outright speed as this can prove to be a bind at times with the mixture of machinery you get on a trackday. The Caterfields, particulaly the likes of the Caterham Superlight (not the R's) and the Westies are the perfect compromise for us.
Only by chance are both our cars Westfields. They could have easily been Caterhams or Sylvas. They were just the best cars available that matched our requirements spec wise and budget.
That's not to say that the idea of 170mph, big slicks and downforce doesn't appeal and one day I suspect we'll end up doing this anyhow just to get it out of our systems. Saying that, I'm still kicking myself for not buying a Mk2 RS2000 that was for sale recently. Caged with all the right bits and dirt cheap. Would have made a top fun track/airfield car and the Escort appeals much more than the single seater in terms of practicality and goonability. SHOULD have bought it
JS, how do manage to get into the Elise? I found it very awkward--and I'm close to 6 feet tall!
Is the TVR easier to get in and out of--I'd think so since PW is 6'5". Sounds like the TVR would be easier to live with compared to the Elise.
Wish there was a Tamora vs. Elise vs. Caterham vs Ginetta comparison test...
Is the TVR easier to get in and out of--I'd think so since PW is 6'5". Sounds like the TVR would be easier to live with compared to the Elise.
Wish there was a Tamora vs. Elise vs. Caterham vs Ginetta comparison test...
JS, how do manage to get into the Elise? I found it very awkward--and I'm close to 6 feet tall!
It's really easy with the roof off and you just step in and drop down. However I admit that they're interesting to get into if you're a big bloke with the roof on. But it's all technique, once you are in there is more space in there for the driver than there was in my MX-5 and it's MUCH bigger and more comfortable than the Westie.
FWIW I'm 5'11", 16 stone and very broad in the shoulders and I have no problems at all in an Elise. In fact it's probably the best fit and driving position I've ever experienced in any sports car.
I have however found out recently that I don't fit in a Formula Vauxhall Lotus
So humorous was this to one of the witnesses to the attempt that it was committed to film and indeed a web page that I have mysteriously lost the address to...
Is the TVR easier to get in and out of--I'd think so since PW is 6'5".
Yep. Much easier to get in and out of due to nice big doors.
Sounds like the TVR would be easier to live with compared to the Elise.
Other than getting in and out I doubt there would be much in it. Both can be temperamental. But both are pretty different and appeal to different types of buyers though.
Wish there was a Tamora vs. Elise vs. Caterham vs Ginetta comparison test...
It wouldn't be very clear cut and there would be no clear 'winner'.
IMO the TVR would take the road going sports GT car honors - Boot, big engine with lots of noisy power and relatively comfy.
The Caterham would take trackday honors as it's the perfect all round track machine. Ultra light and pointy. Goons like no other but also maintains a good turn of speed. Nice and cheap to insure and to repair if you bend it.
The Elise as mentioned before is nicely between the two so would take the all-rounder honors leaving the Ginetta which sort of sits between the Caterham and the Elise. Though more toward the Caterham I would say as it's more track focused than the Elise but not quite as uncompromising as the Caterham.
The only option really is to have one of each
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