Kit car insurance

[SSWGB]

Probably a silly question but anyone under the age of 21 able to get covered on the likes of a Westfield?

Got a couple of call backs from specialist insurers for the coming week but I’m expecting them to be no goers for a good few years yet.

Would likely be a 1.6 I’m looking at, maybe the 1.8 at a push.

If so, what are you paying roughly?

Edit: would be a second car, 2 years ncb on my daily

Edited by SSWGB on Sunday 5th September 15:09

[Tye Green]

Put the car in your dads / uncle's / grandpas name as keeper and owner and get them to insure it for only them to drive, limited mileage etc (prob £100 -150) .

Buy a shed and insure that in your name (or if you’ve already got a daily driver that’ll do ) but make sure the policy allows you to drive someone else’s car third party.

Put the cash value of the kit car in a savings account / investment in case you crash.

Don’t crash !

[alfaspecial]

SSWGB said:

Probably a silly question but anyone under the age of 21 able to get covered on the likes of a Westfield?

Got a couple of call backs from specialist insurers for the coming week but I’m expecting them to be no goers for a good few years yet.

Would likely be a 1.6 I’m looking at, maybe the 1.8 at a push.

If so, what are you paying roughly?

To get cheap kit car insurance you (usually) need it to be regarded as a second car. So you would need to run it as such
ie Buy a 'daily' AND a kit car.
Classic car insurance is usually affordable for the same reason.

You could take the long term view and build your own kit car - taking a couple of years and building up no claims in the meantime.
Best of luck.

This forum might be of interest: www.madaboutkitcars.com section Seven Style builds

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Tye Green said:

Put the car in your dads / uncle's / grandpas name as keeper and owner and get them to insure it for only them to drive, limited mileage etc (prob £100 -150) .

Buy a shed and insure that in your name (or if you’ve already got a daily driver that’ll do ) but make sure the policy allows you to drive someone else’s car third party.

Put the cash value of the kit car in a savings account / investment in case you crash.

Don’t crash !

And which insurers give a driving other cars extension to a policyholder under 21?

[Chris32345]

Tye Green said:

Put the car in your dads / uncle's / grandpas name as keeper and owner and get them to insure it for only them to drive, limited mileage etc (prob £100 -150) .

Buy a shed and insure that in your name (or if you’ve already got a daily driver that’ll do ) but make sure the policy allows you to drive someone else’s car third party.

Put the cash value of the kit car in a savings account / investment in case you crash.

Don’t crash !

then they find our the person who's name is on the is not the main driver and your insurance gets voided you pay sky high premiums for years and you risk going to court for insurance fraud/fronting

[SSWGB]

I don’t think I’ll be lying to the insurance lol

My age they don’t even offer me third party cover on other peoples cars and probably for good reason. If they did, soon as I passed I’d have thought I was billy big bks and taken my granda’s jag out for what would have likely been my first and final drive haha.

Need the daily to get to work so it’s not worth the risk of screwing up 2 years ncb and my job for a bit of weekend fun.

But it’s an idea if never thought of.

[The spinner of plates]

Get off the internet quotes and speak with a specialist broker.

[Tye Green]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Tye Green said:

Put the car in your dads / uncle's / grandpas name as keeper and owner and get them to insure it for only them to drive, limited mileage etc (prob £100 -150) .

Buy a shed and insure that in your name (or if you’ve already got a daily driver that’ll do ) but make sure the policy allows you to drive someone else’s car third party.

Put the cash value of the kit car in a savings account / investment in case you crash.

Don’t crash !

And which insurers give a driving other cars extension to a policyholder under 21?

you may be correct to say that other-cars-extension is unusual for under 21 drivers

Chris32345 said:

then they find our the person who's name is on the is not the main driver and your insurance gets voided you pay sky high premiums for years and you risk going to court for insurance fraud/fronting

Don't think you read it properly and you're getting mixed up with the situation when an additional (usually higher risk) driver is added to a single policy and claimed to be 'the main driver’ which would, indeed, be fronting.

In this scenario the younger driver is no risk to the main policy holder's insurers because his own policy provides third party cover for him so long as he is driving a car belonging to someone else.

There’s nothing deceitful, fraudulent etc at all.

[alfaspecial]

Tye Green said:

Don't think you read it properly and you're getting mixed up with the situation when an additional (usually higher risk) driver is added to a single policy and claimed to be 'the main driver’ which would, indeed, be fronting.

In this scenario the younger driver is no risk to the main policy holder's insurers because his own policy provides third party cover for him so long as he is driving a car belonging to someone else.

There’s nothing deceitful, fraudulent etc at all.

I would say it is deceitful. His insurance company (the 'shed'/ 'daily), in the event of a claim, would be entitled to investigate the insurance aspect of both the driver, of the car, and the legal owner .... and if it transpired that the 'owner' was not the main driver then they would have grounds to reject the claim on the grounds of intent to defraud.
Could the insured driver (registered owner) - as you suggest 'grandpa' - even fit into a Westfield - would they be willing/able to actually stand up in court and argue that they were in actuality the main driver?
Insurance is required for a reason. And the reality is that a higher risk driver (youth / inexperience) will have to pay more for his/her insurance. A Westfield is a pretty quick piece of kit. One with little crash protection. But with the potential to do a lot of third party damage.

I think in his post the O/P @ 8.27 has shown a little wisdom beyond his years ....... For the sake of a few more years increasing his experience / NCB (which he could use building/rebuilding his kit car) it seems daft to risk his insurance record and potentially his job, for 'a bit of weekend fun'.

[Tye Green]

there is no concept of 'main driver' in this scenario.

whilst I can't speak for every insurance policy out there, I can state that in all 3 polices that I hold the wording states that I'm allowed to drive any other vehicle that I don't own, third party cover only.

they don't contain clauses that say 'in an emergency only, or 'if the owner/keeper of the vehicle is not related to me' - there are no clauses to consider.

Insurance polices are simply a contract between the holder and the ins company and if your policy states you can drive another vehicle third party without any strings then that's the way it is. Contract law must be precise.

[98elise]

Tye Green said:

Put the car in your dads / uncle's / grandpas name as keeper and owner and get them to insure it for only them to drive, limited mileage etc (prob £100 -150) .

Buy a shed and insure that in your name (or if you’ve already got a daily driver that’ll do ) but make sure the policy allows you to drive someone else’s car third party.

Put the cash value of the kit car in a savings account / investment in case you crash.

Don’t crash !

Insurance fraud is probably not a good idea.

[98elise]

Tye Green said:

there is no concept of 'main driver' in this scenario.

whilst I can't speak for every insurance policy out there, I can state that in all 3 polices that I hold the wording states that I'm allowed to drive any other vehicle that I don't own, third party cover only.

they don't contain clauses that say 'in an emergency only, or 'if the owner/keeper of the vehicle is not related to me' - there are no clauses to consider.

Insurance polices are simply a contract between the holder and the ins company and if your policy states you can drive another vehicle third party without any strings then that's the way it is. Contract law must be precise.

The OP is the owner, so how does DOC cover him? You're suggesting he lie about the ownership to get round that.

[Tye Green]

98elise said:

Tye Green said:

there is no concept of 'main driver' in this scenario.

whilst I can't speak for every insurance policy out there, I can state that in all 3 polices that I hold the wording states that I'm allowed to drive any other vehicle that I don't own, third party cover only.

they don't contain clauses that say 'in an emergency only, or 'if the owner/keeper of the vehicle is not related to me' - there are no clauses to consider.

Insurance polices are simply a contract between the holder and the ins company and if your policy states you can drive another vehicle third party without any strings then that's the way it is. Contract law must be precise.

Insurance fraud is probably not a good idea.

The OP is the owner, so how does DOC cover him? You're suggesting he lie about the ownership to get round that.

Did you read the thread at all??
The OP hasn’t bought the car yet, so he is not the owner. He asks someone else to buy it and that person is owner & keeper and insures it without him involved at all. The OP insures another car

[Bennet]

Tye Green said:

He asks someone else to buy it and that person is owner & keeper and insures it without him involved at all. The OP insures another car

That's right. I did exactly this when I was 21. My dad "owned" and insured an MR2 (which I paid for), and I drove it on my own policy (which was on my main car). His insurer was fine with it, and so was mine.

Edited by Bennet on Monday 6th September 14:29

[98elise]

Bennet said:

Tye Green said:

He asks someone else to buy it and that person is owner & keeper and insures it without him involved at all. The OP insures another car

That's right. I did exactly this when I was 21. My dad "owned" and insured an MR2 (which I paid for), and I drove it on my own policy (which was on my main car). His insurer was fine with it, and so was mine.

Edited by Bennet on Monday 6th September 14:29

So did your dad own the car or not? If not then did you make it clear to the insurer that he only "owned" it.

They are not fine with it otherwise they wouldn't charge you more if you owned it.

[98elise]

Tye Green said:

98elise said:

Tye Green said:

there is no concept of 'main driver' in this scenario.

whilst I can't speak for every insurance policy out there, I can state that in all 3 polices that I hold the wording states that I'm allowed to drive any other vehicle that I don't own, third party cover only.

they don't contain clauses that say 'in an emergency only, or 'if the owner/keeper of the vehicle is not related to me' - there are no clauses to consider.

Insurance polices are simply a contract between the holder and the ins company and if your policy states you can drive another vehicle third party without any strings then that's the way it is. Contract law must be precise.

Insurance fraud is probably not a good idea.

The OP is the owner, so how does DOC cover him? You're suggesting he lie about the ownership to get round that.

Did you read the thread at all??
The OP hasn’t bought the car yet, so he is not the owner. He asks someone else to buy it and that person is owner & keeper and insures it without him involved at all. The OP insures another car

Yes, have you read you own post?

In case not, you said to put it in someone else's name. That doesn't suggest someone else is buying it.

If you pay for a car, and you are going to be the main driver then you are the owner. If you make stuff up to benefit yourself financially, then that's fraud.

It's fine if you want to do it, but it's not a good idea to suggest other people do it.

[Gad-Westy]

The spinner of plates said:

Get off the internet quotes and speak with a specialist broker.

Yep. This might be one of those now rare occasions where picking up the phone is the order of the day. I used to have great service from Footman James. so that might be a good place to start but there are loads of specialists out there that you won't find anywhere near compare the market etc. I think I was about 21 when I had my first Westfield and I can't recall having any major issues with the specialists. It was pretty cheap at the time as a second car. Admittedly this is all two decades ago so much might have changed!

[Tye Green]

98elise said:

Tye Green said:

98elise said:

Tye Green said:

there is no concept of 'main driver' in this scenario.

whilst I can't speak for every insurance policy out there, I can state that in all 3 polices that I hold the wording states that I'm allowed to drive any other vehicle that I don't own, third party cover only.

they don't contain clauses that say 'in an emergency only, or 'if the owner/keeper of the vehicle is not related to me' - there are no clauses to consider.

Insurance polices are simply a contract between the holder and the ins company and if your policy states you can drive another vehicle third party without any strings then that's the way it is. Contract law must be precise.

Insurance fraud is probably not a good idea.

The OP is the owner, so how does DOC cover him? You're suggesting he lie about the ownership to get round that.

Did you read the thread at all??
The OP hasn’t bought the car yet, so he is not the owner. He asks someone else to buy it and that person is owner & keeper and insures it without him involved at all. The OP insures another car

Yes, have you read you own post?

In case not, you said to put it in someone else's name. That doesn't suggest someone else is buying it.

If you pay for a car, and you are going to be the main driver then you are the owner. If you make stuff up to benefit yourself financially, then that's fraud.

It's fine if you want to do it, but it's not a good idea to suggest other people do it.

maybe you're just being pedantic or arguing for the sake of it. however, to keep you happy how about this version?

replace put it in someone else's name with get someone else to buy the car as their property and register their name on the V5C as the keeper

let me know if you require further changes..

[Olivergt]

Tye Green said:

98elise said:

Tye Green said:

there is no concept of 'main driver' in this scenario.

whilst I can't speak for every insurance policy out there, I can state that in all 3 polices that I hold the wording states that I'm allowed to drive any other vehicle that I don't own, third party cover only.

they don't contain clauses that say 'in an emergency only, or 'if the owner/keeper of the vehicle is not related to me' - there are no clauses to consider.

Insurance polices are simply a contract between the holder and the ins company and if your policy states you can drive another vehicle third party without any strings then that's the way it is. Contract law must be precise.

Insurance fraud is probably not a good idea.

The OP is the owner, so how does DOC cover him? You're suggesting he lie about the ownership to get round that.

Did you read the thread at all??
The OP hasn’t bought the car yet, so he is not the owner. He asks someone else to buy it and that person is owner & keeper and insures it without him involved at all. The OP insures another car

But the intention of getting someone else to buy it (with whose money?) and own/insure it (but never drive it), is to get around not being able to insure it himself. i.e. fraud.

There is a little more detail here, not sure how accurate it is:

https://www.carshop.co.uk/latest-news/can-i-drive-...

[Bennet]

98elise said:

So did your dad own the car or not? If not then did you make it clear to the insurer that he only "owned" it.

They are not fine with it otherwise they wouldn't charge you more if you owned it.

FWIW, this arrangement has long, long since ceased to exist.

I think, at the time, our belief and understanding was that we were perfectly free to decide between us who the owner was. You can give anything to anyone at any time for free, can't you. I paid for it, we registered it to him and officially, we considered it his. At some point down the line we transferred officially to me.

His insurer was happy to take the money, and the risk to them was virtually nil since he hardly ever drove it. My insurer told me they were perfectly happy for me to drive any other car as much as I liked.

I said "Even a Lamborghini?"
Them: "Yes"
I said "Every single day?"
Them: "Yes, but if you crash, we won't fix the Lambo, so it's your risk."

So from that, I took it that they were happy for me to drive my Dad's MR2. Similar to the OP, it was genuinely a secondary car, rather than a daily. And he did drive it, at least occasionally.