Adjusting Valve Clearances!! (FAO NEVPUGH)
Discussion
Good question !
I've got to look into this myself. My engine (1600 xflow too) was built by Connaught, and on the spec sheet and info sheet that came from Connaught, it clearly says that the gaps should be set HOT and both inlet and outlet to 0.014".
But someone else has mentioned that they should be set cold !
If I get time later today, I'll do a bit of internet trauling and see if I can find out.
As a matter of interest, someone else said that I should leave the gaps really wide, for maximum performance ..... setting the gaps to their proper settings will result in a quieter engine, but wider gaps will result in more performance.
(just remembered, I've got a Capri haynes manual at home that covers the x flow ... I'll check what it says in there tonight)
I've got to look into this myself. My engine (1600 xflow too) was built by Connaught, and on the spec sheet and info sheet that came from Connaught, it clearly says that the gaps should be set HOT and both inlet and outlet to 0.014".
But someone else has mentioned that they should be set cold !
If I get time later today, I'll do a bit of internet trauling and see if I can find out.
As a matter of interest, someone else said that I should leave the gaps really wide, for maximum performance ..... setting the gaps to their proper settings will result in a quieter engine, but wider gaps will result in more performance.
(just remembered, I've got a Capri haynes manual at home that covers the x flow ... I'll check what it says in there tonight)
I've got Piper Magnum 2 cams and springs and they info says that both inlet and exhaust should be set to 0.012" but it doesn't say whether it should be done hot or cold, and I dont wanna risk it!
Also, do you know what the sequence of adjustment is as I can't find any info anywhere, not even in the 2 haynes manuals i've got (my land rover is diesel and dads merc adjusts itself!)
Cheers again!
Graham
Also, do you know what the sequence of adjustment is as I can't find any info anywhere, not even in the 2 haynes manuals i've got (my land rover is diesel and dads merc adjusts itself!)
Cheers again!
Graham
Hi Guys,
Be aware that very often the Cam manufacturer will specify the gaps and the setting criteria - this is especially true for performance Cams and is definitely the case for my Morgan X-Flow which has a Kent Perfoormance Cam in it. The settings can be markedly different from the 'standard' settings in things such as the Haynes manuals. Performance Cams often demand greater (wider) settings than standard (not sure why though). With small (standard) settings and a 'wild' Cam you need to be careful you don't cock-up the valve-to-piston clearance - if the two should meet it's bad news. suggest you go to the Cam supplier (if you know who they are) for accurate information.
Have Fun
Be aware that very often the Cam manufacturer will specify the gaps and the setting criteria - this is especially true for performance Cams and is definitely the case for my Morgan X-Flow which has a Kent Perfoormance Cam in it. The settings can be markedly different from the 'standard' settings in things such as the Haynes manuals. Performance Cams often demand greater (wider) settings than standard (not sure why though). With small (standard) settings and a 'wild' Cam you need to be careful you don't cock-up the valve-to-piston clearance - if the two should meet it's bad news. suggest you go to the Cam supplier (if you know who they are) for accurate information.
Have Fun
I'm running a Piper 285 and double valve springs btw.
Well, think about this logically .... if you set the clearance TOO wide then you can't damage anything, only make the engine noisy (and if extreme, reduce performance) If you set the tappets when hot, then everything has expanded, so when the engine cools the gaps will get bigger (as the metal contracts). So, logically, if you set the engine when hot, the worst that can happen is that when the engine cools the gaps are too wide (and the engine sounds like a bucket of bolts). And that's better than doing it the other way round, and everything tightening up when the engine gets hot, which WILL cause damage (either valve->piston contact, or more likely burnt valve seats coz the valves never close properly). Does that makes sense ?
I'd either
a) contact the mfr of the cam, as above
b) set when hot and suck it and see
c) take the rocker cover off and see what they are set to currently. At a guess, most of them are going to be more-or-less correct, so if you measure them when the engine is hot and they're pretty much around 0.012", then that's your answer.
Dont think order really matters, just do one set when the opposite set is "rocking". (mind you, dont Ford engines have a funny firing order ? something like 1-2-4-3 instead of 1-3-4-2 ? does that make a difference ?)
Well, think about this logically .... if you set the clearance TOO wide then you can't damage anything, only make the engine noisy (and if extreme, reduce performance) If you set the tappets when hot, then everything has expanded, so when the engine cools the gaps will get bigger (as the metal contracts). So, logically, if you set the engine when hot, the worst that can happen is that when the engine cools the gaps are too wide (and the engine sounds like a bucket of bolts). And that's better than doing it the other way round, and everything tightening up when the engine gets hot, which WILL cause damage (either valve->piston contact, or more likely burnt valve seats coz the valves never close properly). Does that makes sense ?
I'd either
a) contact the mfr of the cam, as above
b) set when hot and suck it and see
c) take the rocker cover off and see what they are set to currently. At a guess, most of them are going to be more-or-less correct, so if you measure them when the engine is hot and they're pretty much around 0.012", then that's your answer.
Dont think order really matters, just do one set when the opposite set is "rocking". (mind you, dont Ford engines have a funny firing order ? something like 1-2-4-3 instead of 1-3-4-2 ? does that make a difference ?)
Use the 'from 9' rule to determine which valve clearances to adjust:
- turn the engine so that in turn each cylinder reaches TDC (both valves will show maximum clearance, or 'rock').
- determine the inlet and exhaust valve for adjustment by subtracting the open valve number from nine. e.g. with valves 7 & 8 rocking, adjust 2 and 1.
- remember that inlet and exhaust may have different clearances: be sure you know which valves are which!
Dredged up from long ago when far too much of my time was spent working on my Xflow, so double-check with Haynes manual or similar for technique!
- turn the engine so that in turn each cylinder reaches TDC (both valves will show maximum clearance, or 'rock').
- determine the inlet and exhaust valve for adjustment by subtracting the open valve number from nine. e.g. with valves 7 & 8 rocking, adjust 2 and 1.
- remember that inlet and exhaust may have different clearances: be sure you know which valves are which!
Dredged up from long ago when far too much of my time was spent working on my Xflow
, so double-check with Haynes manual or similar for technique!Nev, i've got a Piper 285 Magnum 2 (think its either similar or the same as your setup)
Looking through the info I got with the car (the piper magnum 2 info) says it's 0.012" on both BUT doesn't say whether it should be done hot or cold!
I'll do it HOT I think and hope for the best, I tightened one up as it was VERY loose and the ticking has now stopped!
Looking through the info I got with the car (the piper magnum 2 info) says it's 0.012" on both BUT doesn't say whether it should be done hot or cold!
I'll do it HOT I think and hope for the best, I tightened one up as it was VERY loose and the ticking has now stopped!
quote:
Use the 'from 9' rule
Oh yeah, that was it !
I think there is a "short cut" you can use though, where if both inlet & exhaust on one cylinder are freely rocking, you can set both inlet & exhaust on another cylinder, but I'm dredging the bottom of my memory a bit now ....
Stick with rule of 9 ....
quote:You will find that both inlet and exhaust on one cylinder will rock together when the piston is around TDC (both valves are closed), so you can in effect adjust two at once: the 'from 9' rule magically reveals one inlet and one exhaust valve to adjust for each pair.
I think there is a "short cut" you can use though, where if both inlet & exhaust on one cylinder are freely rocking, you can set both inlet & exhaust on another cylinder, but I'm dredging the bottom of my memory a bit now...
Don't set the valve clearances at 12 thou when cold.The exhaust valve will soon expand that amount and cause all manner of problems.Check with the cam manufacturer,but I think with a Kent 244 it was something like 16 thou inlet and a huge 24-26 thou exhaust.But dont quote me on that and I was always told by my engine builder,do it'cold'
Firing order - It really is;
1-2-4-3 which if you think about it is the same as 4-3-1-2, I was just trying to make the point politely to Justin.
The suggestion of 1-3-4-2 is incorrect for a standard X-Flow.
Nev - I think it is time you went and bought the book Rebuilding and Tuning Ford's Kent Crossflow Engine by Peter and Valerie Wallage published by Haynes and also do the best you can to find out what Cam you have. If you think about it, the valve clearance does not affect the MAXIMUM amount by which the valve opens - just the TIME at which the valve starts to open and when it is fully closed. In this context wider clearances are safer. If your engine is modified then you ultimately need to establish the type and make of Cam and the valve sizes and the state of the pistons (i.e. pocketed or standard) and then get some advice on timing and valve clearances. A good engine builder or KENT, BURTON, VULCAN, CONNAUGHT will be able to help you and I presume you want to avoid potentially expensive situations. In the short term if your valve clearances were consistent (across the cylinders) but wide (noisy) and the engione was running OK that you stick with that until you get the details sorted.
Anyway - Best of luck, and all my contributions are intended as helpful rather than prescrptive.
Have Fun
1-2-4-3 which if you think about it is the same as 4-3-1-2, I was just trying to make the point politely to Justin.
The suggestion of 1-3-4-2 is incorrect for a standard X-Flow.
Nev - I think it is time you went and bought the book Rebuilding and Tuning Ford's Kent Crossflow Engine by Peter and Valerie Wallage published by Haynes and also do the best you can to find out what Cam you have. If you think about it, the valve clearance does not affect the MAXIMUM amount by which the valve opens - just the TIME at which the valve starts to open and when it is fully closed. In this context wider clearances are safer. If your engine is modified then you ultimately need to establish the type and make of Cam and the valve sizes and the state of the pistons (i.e. pocketed or standard) and then get some advice on timing and valve clearances. A good engine builder or KENT, BURTON, VULCAN, CONNAUGHT will be able to help you and I presume you want to avoid potentially expensive situations. In the short term if your valve clearances were consistent (across the cylinders) but wide (noisy) and the engione was running OK that you stick with that until you get the details sorted.
Anyway - Best of luck, and all my contributions are intended as helpful rather than prescrptive.
Have Fun
quote:
Nev - ... you ultimately need to establish the type and make of Cam and the valve sizes and the state of the pistons (i.e. pocketed or standard) and then get some advice on timing and valve clearances. A good engine builder or KENT, BURTON, VULCAN, CONNAUGHT will be able to help you and I presume you want to avoid potentially expensive situations. In the short term if your valve clearances were consistent (across the cylinders) but wide (noisy) and the engione was running OK that you stick with that until you get the details sorted.
I think you mean GrahamJay here, not me (though you're right, I do need that book).
I know what my engine is .... it was build by Connaught and has all the spec sheets, cam details etc etc with it. Connaught say to do it hot, so thats what I'll be doing, I was offering it as info but not saying that's def. what should be done ... just what Connaught say needs to be done with this engine (IYKWIM
)
Where am I..........
Ok yer it was me and the info it much appreciated!
I got loads of 'bumph' when I bought the car and the engine bit reads:
Ok yer it was me and the info it much appreciated!
I got loads of 'bumph' when I bought the car and the engine bit reads:
quote:
Engine - 1600 X/F -1660cc
Piper Magnum 2 - 285/2cam/springs
Duplex timing set
Distributor - Lucas - escort twin-cam
timing 12* - 13*
(* would be degrees)
Hi GrahamJay,
I have turned up my own Cam information which you may find interesting, but in no way am I suggesting that these figures are correct for your motor, best advice is to ask Piper Cams. Sounds an interesting motor though.
Cam - Kent 224 High Torque - Autotest
Valve Clearances Inlet 0.016" (0.41mm) Exhaust 0.018" (0.46mm) - Does not say whether to set Hot or Cold !
Pistons needed pockets machining in them to maintain valve/piston clearance.
I've also been looking in my 'period' workshop manuals for 1600 X-Flows which give differing valve clearances for Hot and Cold setting, but the cold is for initial (rebuild) setting only - then it says reset when HOT.
Anyway they are as follows;
X-Flow Cortina Mk II 1600 GT Engine
HOT Inlet 0.012" (0.30mm)
HOT Exhaust 0.022" (0.56mm)
COLD Inlet 0.011" to 0.013" (0.28mm to 0.33mm)
COLD Exhaust 0.021" to 0.023" (0.53mm to 0.58mm)
As for your timing figures 12*-13* I would presume this is the initial (or static) advance for the ignition timing (normally using a neon strobe at idle speed) - the standard figure for a Cortina 1600 GT is around 8*, again I would check with Piper.
Have Fun
I have turned up my own Cam information which you may find interesting, but in no way am I suggesting that these figures are correct for your motor, best advice is to ask Piper Cams. Sounds an interesting motor though.
Cam - Kent 224 High Torque - Autotest
Valve Clearances Inlet 0.016" (0.41mm) Exhaust 0.018" (0.46mm) - Does not say whether to set Hot or Cold !
Pistons needed pockets machining in them to maintain valve/piston clearance.
I've also been looking in my 'period' workshop manuals for 1600 X-Flows which give differing valve clearances for Hot and Cold setting, but the cold is for initial (rebuild) setting only - then it says reset when HOT.
Anyway they are as follows;
X-Flow Cortina Mk II 1600 GT Engine
HOT Inlet 0.012" (0.30mm)
HOT Exhaust 0.022" (0.56mm)
COLD Inlet 0.011" to 0.013" (0.28mm to 0.33mm)
COLD Exhaust 0.021" to 0.023" (0.53mm to 0.58mm)
As for your timing figures 12*-13* I would presume this is the initial (or static) advance for the ignition timing (normally using a neon strobe at idle speed) - the standard figure for a Cortina 1600 GT is around 8*, again I would check with Piper.
Have Fun
Gassing Station | Kit Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff