Can't move my Westfield

[SDF1965]

All

Westy has been in my garage for about 8 months, need to move it but can't. Thought handbrake pads had stuck to discs , mine is an SEIW, but no, I have physically removed the calipers from both sides.

When I rock the car it seems like it's in gear however I can start the car with no issues, I can select a gear but car will stall out as soon as I start to lift clutch

Is this a duff Diff?

[Equus]

It seems extremely unlikely - but it isn't a big job to disconnect the propshaft, so why not do that? It would at least tell you whether the problem is gearbox or rear axle/diff related?

[Megaflow]

When you removed the calipers, did you remove the pads as well? If not they could be stuck to the disc.

[SDF1965]

Thanks both

No pads stuck to disk and in fact the handbrake mechanism is all good

Equus - I'll disconnect prop at the weekend and give that a try, if that resolves the issue where do I need to be looking?

[smokey mow]

Have you checked the brakes on the front wheels as well or just those on the rear?

A diff issue would be very unlikely IMO considering that it’s largely filled with lubricating oil.

Jack the rear up and with both the wheels in the air try running the car in gear again to see if it stalls when you let the clutch out.

Edited by smokey mow on Wednesday 22 April 13:09

[Equus]

SDF1965 said:

Equus - I'll disconnect prop at the weekend and give that a try, if that resolves the issue where do I need to be looking?

If you disconnect the propshaft and the car still won't push forward, it's either the diff or something at the wheels (bearings or brakes).

If it does roll freely once you've disconnected the propshaft, then the fact that you can start the engine but it stalls when you let the clutch up would seem to point to the gearbox being seized or jammed- but again that seems pretty unlikely if it was all working find when you laid it up.

[SDF1965]

smokey mow said:

Have you checked the brakes on the front wheels as well or just those on the rear?

A diff issue would be very unlikely IMO considering that it’s largely filled with lubricating oil.

Jack the rear up and with both the wheels in the air try running the car in gear again to see if it stalls when you let the clutch out.

Edited by smokey mow on Wednesday 22 April 13:09

Hi , yes, I jacked up the rear, disconnected calipers, and using my hands I can tune a wheel perhaps 90 degrees. Tried starting car, selecting a gear, let clutch out, car stalls. tried with a few more revs, still stalls.

Now, bear in mind, I know the car is going into neutral as I can start the car without clutch depressed. If i stop the engine, put car into a gear, try to start it won't as clearly it's trying to turn prop and rear wheels.

Think I need to disconnect prop and see if I have free movement on rear wheels before much else

[Equus]

If you've got a small amount of movement by hand at the rear wheels, also check whether there is any small amount of rotation in the propshaft as you rotate a single jacked-up rear wheel.

If there is, then it would suggest that the diff remains free, and would point increasingly toward the gearbox.

[Gord1]

Is it a hydraulic clutch, maybe the slave cylinder has gone.
Have you jacked the car up to make sure all 4 wheels turn easily.
You could unbolt the prop to isolate the diff.

[Happy Jim]

Your clutch plate has stuck to the flywheel I think:

Can you start the engine in Neutral but NOT engage a gear?
Engine off, engage gear, and you now CANNOT start engine?

If the above are true then most likely cause is the clutch plate.....and you’re gonna have to get brutal ;-)

Jim

[Skyedriver]

Happy Jim said:

Your clutch plate has stuck to the flywheel I think:

Can you start the engine in Neutral but NOT engage a gear?
Engine off, engage gear, and you now CANNOT start engine?

If the above are true then most likely cause is the clutch plate.....and you’re gonna have to get brutal ;-)

Jim

AS above, sort of.
Starts in neutral but can't engage a gear or jumps when you try to start in gear with the clutch down. (Careful now as you have removed the brakes!!)
You need to start in gear accepting the jumping, it'll drive, now bang on the brakes while pumping the clutch. Harsh acceleration & braking usually frees off a rusted clutch.

One other thought, there's not a brick in front of one of the wheels.........?

[Equus]

Happy Jim said:

Your clutch plate has stuck to the flywheel I think

SDF1965 said:

I can select a gear but car will stall out as soon as I start to lift clutch...

If it was a stuck clutch plate, lifting the clutch pedal would do bugger all.

[Monkeylegend]

Reconnect your brakes, leave the rear wheels jacked off the ground so they can spin, start the car in 1st gear, then hit the brakes hard. You might need to do this a couple of times.

That's how I used to release the flywheel on my Triumph Herald. It always stuck to the clutch plate over winter storage.

Always worked for me.

[Equus]

I repeat:

SDF1965 said:

I can start the car with no issues, I can select a gear but car will stall out as soon as I start to lift clutch

From that description it is NOT a stuck clutch plate.

[SDF1965]

Thanks for all the comments

I don't think this is stuck clutch as one of my tests has been:

1. Jack rear of car up, both wheels clear of the ground
2. I have removed calipers from both sides so no opportunity for brake grap be that foot pedal or hand brake
3. In neutral car will start
4. Clutch down, select a gear, clutch up - engine stalls - tried with more revs - still stalls
5. turn off engine, select a gear, clutch not depressed, try to start car and it won't turn over as it is trying to turn wheels etc.

One comment, when I manually try and turn a rear wheel, i get possibly 90 degrees rotation and i do see the prop turn -
This could indicate Diff is fine and issue is in the final drive part of the gearbox OR Diff is allowing small amount of rotation and stopping and the only way to confirm is by disconnecting the prop

[ReformedPistonhead]

Disconnect the prop sounds like it will give you the answer as to where the problem lies. And as another poster said that is not a tough job.

Good luck!

[Skyedriver]

Equus said:

I repeat:

SDF1965 said:

I can start the car with no issues, I can select a gear but car will stall out as soon as I start to lift clutch

From that description it is NOT a stuck clutch plate.

If OP's comment is right then agree, ignore the stuck friction plate.
Did the car get driven into the garage or has there been "some work" carried out over the winter.
I'm beginning to think it's seized on calipers/handbrake or a brick in front of the wheel....

[Megaflow]

SDF1965 said:

Thanks for all the comments

I don't think this is stuck clutch as one of my tests has been:

1. Jack rear of car up, both wheels clear of the ground
2. I have removed calipers from both sides so no opportunity for brake grap be that foot pedal or hand brake
3. In neutral car will start
4. Clutch down, select a gear, clutch up - engine stalls - tried with more revs - still stalls
5. turn off engine, select a gear, clutch not depressed, try to start car and it won't turn over as it is trying to turn wheels etc.

One comment, when I manually try and turn a rear wheel, i get possibly 90 degrees rotation and i do see the prop turn -
This could indicate Diff is fine and issue is in the final drive part of the gearbox OR Diff is allowing small amount of rotation and stopping and the only way to confirm is by disconnecting the prop

That is very weird. It must be a gearbox or diff issue, as other said removing the prop will tell you which one.

I'd be very interested to know what the problem is when you find it.

[Equus]

Megaflow said:

I'd be very interested to know what the problem is when you find it.

Me too. It's not the sort of thing you'd normally expect to occur without warning, as result of a few months lay-up.

Gear oil is so viscous that even a gearbox or diff drained of the stuff could sit around for decades without seizing up to the degree necessary to cause this sort of issue.

Do we know if it's an open or limited slip diff.?

My only other thought - and it's a long shot - is whether somehow the gearbox could be selecting two gears at once when you're putting it into gear. Damned if I know how, though, or why it should occur as a result of the lay-up.

[the av8er]

I believe you may have a problem with one of the fixed gears on the output shaft in the gearbox.
When the engine is running ( foot not on the clutch pedal ) the input shaft is spinning and the output shaft is stationary. When you select a gear it drives the output shaft and it jams.
When you turn the rear wheels ( box in neutral ) either by jacking the back up or by pushing the car you are attempting to drive the output shaft. Again it jams. Therefore it's a problem with a gear on the output shaft..
This is most likely correct providing it's not the rear differential. To check the dif, do as others have suggested... Disconnect the prop shaft and try pushing the car.
You can look up how a box works if this sounds odd to you. Or ask me and I'll try to explain. This is long winded so look it up first. A detailed picture or exploded diagram should explain.