GP Projects Porsche RS60

[SpartacusF]

I've been offered an 80s VW kit replica of a Porsche RS60 - same essentially at the RSK, just with a higher screen. The underpinnings are a shortened floor pan of a 1974 1600cc Beetle, with a rear subframe of what looks like angle iron to support the rear clam. The car hasn't been used for about five years and is tatty but starts. The floor pans under the seats feel like soggy cardboard and sitting in it doesn't seem like a good idea. I imagine I'm looking at a body-off project. I guess I may as well factor in replacing all the running gear as I go.

A couple of questions for you:

Is replacing the underseat floorpans super-specialist, or will any workshop be able to do it? (I'm in Surrey/SW London, is there anywhere you'd recommend?)
What do these kits drive like once sorted?
What kind of modern upgrades are feasible/worthwhile? (It has front discs already).
I'm going to see it again in a few days. Any advice about what to look for, or ask about?
I've not had an air-cooled VW but have heard about the end float test. Is it reliable?

Please feel free to say walk away.....

[john2443]

Depends if you're a Beetle fan or not - it may well look really cool, but when you start it up, it'll sound like a Beetle; I'm not a fan of the clatter the engine makes, but some people like them

[imagineifyeswill]

I dont know anything about these kits but have done a fair bit of Beetle work.

I would have expected the rear spaceframe to be tubular steel rather than angle that sounds very amateurish.It will definately be better to take the body off to replace the floorpans,its not a difficult job but will be complicated by the need to cut and shorten the pans at the same point the chassis has been shortened.

As for the crank end float, there should be some movement, IIRC the optimal amount is 9 thou although Ive seen engines running fine with at least double that but if you have something like 25 thou then the bottom end is scrap.

[Spydaman]

Most important thing to check is that it's correctly registered as a GP Spyder. If it's not it can be difficult as it should need an SVA due to the shortened floor pan.

Floor pans are available and anyone handy with a mig welder could replace them. They will need to be shortened match the rest of the chassis though. If you're tall you may want to lower the floorpans too.

All mechanicals are easy and cheap with plenty of scope to upgrade and tune.

I had one that I raced in hillclimbs which was fun. I sold it a few years ago and it recently turned up in Australia. It was originally built in South Africa.

I've got another one now that I bought as a part completed kit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jemMpiditH8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJkif39AkZs

[Skyedriver]

Spydaman said:

Most important thing to check is that it's correctly registered as a GP Spyder. If it's not it can be difficult as it should need an SVA due to the shortened floor pan.

Floor pans are available and anyone handy with a mig welder could replace them. They will need to be shortened match the rest of the chassis though. If you're tall you may want to lower the floorpans too.

All mechanicals are easy and cheap with plenty of scope to upgrade and tune.

I had one that I raced in hillclimbs which was fun. I sold it a few years ago and it recently turned up in Australia. It was originally built in South Africa.

I've got another one now that I bought as a part completed kit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jemMpiditH8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJkif39AkZs

That didn't sound your typical beetle motor.

[SpartacusF]

Spydaman said:

Most important thing to check is that it's correctly registered as a GP Spyder.

....though. If you're tall you may want to lower the floorpans too.

It's registered as a VW and was last taxed and MOT'd about 5 years ago. Will that be an issue?

I understand the seat back is fixed and the pedal box is cramped - what is too tall, or tall enough to make it tricky to drive?

[996Type]

You may find that it’s rejected at MOT stage for not being a VW as stated and then becomes subject to an IVA (or whatever the equivalent is) to gain an age related or Q plate. It won’t be impossible to get the car through the test but potentially expensive and it’s usually better to start from new with the test in mind as opposed to unpicking work that would not qualify.

If you get the car at the right price and and handle the project though it may be worth considering, or if it’s a track car it potentially won’t require the test.

[Spydaman]

A shortened floor pan should mean an IVA as its a modified chassis but you might be lucky as I was when I registered mine. You need a certain number of points for the original engine gearbox suspension brakes etc to keep the original registration but it all depends on having an original unmodified chassis. I had to send original invoices and info about the car including the build manual. Weirdly the pages about shortening the chassis had gone missing so it didn't need an IVA and retained the original registration.

If you're tall you might sit quite high in the car. Mine was a 718RSK with just a low fly screen. The RS60 has a proper windscreen which is higher so may not be a problem. I'm about 5'9" and it was ok for me.

[SpartacusF]

Well, I had no idea of the existence of the whole new world of pain that is IVA. It does all seem to be rational and at least is clearly written.

Thanks for the heads up, it will be a very long shopping list.

[Furyblade_Lee]

It does not have to be registered as a “ GP Spyder” if it was built before SVA. It may well say something like “ VW Sports” or “ Beetle Sports” . What you don’t want is “ VW Beetle Saloon” which would indicate it has never been inspected by the DVLA. But if you have documented proof it has been MOT’d and Insured in the recent past then I am sure it will be fine. Maybe just an insurance quote telling them the truth before parting with your cash.
Saying that, if it does say Beetle Saloon , if you can prove it has been on the road and used regularly since the 1980’s with documented proof you may be able to contact the DVLA and get their opinion, but certainly in that scenario I would not be paying out for it upfront.
Sounds a great little car .

SpartacusF said:

Spydaman said:

Most important thing to check is that it's correctly registered as a GP Spyder.

....though. If you're tall you may want to lower the floorpans too.

It's registered as a VW and was last taxed and MOT'd about 5 years ago. Will that be an issue?

I understand the seat back is fixed and the pedal box is cramped - what is too tall, or tall enough to make it tricky to drive?

Edited by Furyblade_Lee on Monday 27th April 10:00

[SpartacusF]

Thanks Lee, 'recent past' was 5 or 6 years ago. I need to find out exactly what is on the V5 then. As the base car, a 1973 Beetle (sorry, 'VW sports!'), is more than 40 years old, does it need an MoT? There is a clause in the MoT classic car exemption that seems to say it would need one:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...

[LLantrisant]

even if the car might have been registered b4 SVA (today IVA) came into force, there was an amnesty period where ALL kitcars, which were "running" on the donor paperwork / plates need to get their paperwork updated.

if this period was missed, even the car got its anual MOT (however), those kits are considered nowadays as "incorrectly" registrated.

the key-point is: the car does NOT sit on the orignal, unmodified vw floorpan --> therefore could NOT be declared as re-body which would not need IVA.

[SpartacusF]

That's my fear, that the goalposts have been moving over the years and what was possible once isn't now. I've looked through the IVA checklist and it is a daunting prospect.

Has anyone got something like one of these through an IVA?

[Furyblade_Lee]

My GP Spyder was converted in 1990 and has “VW Sports” on the logbook. Back in those days the DVLA would just come out and look at it. My friend actually got “ Jaguar E Type “ on his Challenger eType logbook in 1989, they were quite lax back then..

SpartacusF said:

Thanks Lee, 'recent past' was 5 or 6 years ago. I need to find out exactly what is on the V5 then. As the base car, a 1973 Beetle (sorry, 'VW sports!'), is more than 40 years old, does it need an MoT? There is a clause in the MoT classic car exemption that seems to say it would need one:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...

[LLantrisant]

Furyblade_Lee said:

My GP Spyder was converted in 1990 and has “VW Sports” on the logbook. Back in those days the DVLA would just come out and look at it. My friend actually got “ Jaguar E Type “ on his Challenger eType logbook in 1989, they were quite lax back then..

SpartacusF said:

Thanks Lee, 'recent past' was 5 or 6 years ago. I need to find out exactly what is on the V5 then. As the base car, a 1973 Beetle (sorry, 'VW sports!'), is more than 40 years old, does it need an MoT? There is a clause in the MoT classic car exemption that seems to say it would need one:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...

if your GP spyder was a re-body on its unmodified chassis than the registration is (still)ok.

if the chassis was modified, therefore not "only" a re-body, your car is an example of the "missed amnesty period" ...it should be named GP Spyder or VW-GP Spyder in the V5c.....your car is incorrectly registered, fact!!

this said, if you have enough prove of the car´s history it would still be possible today to update the v5c with the correct data´s....but might be that MR. DVLA would sent you to IVA.

[Furyblade_Lee]

LLantrisant said:

Furyblade_Lee said:

My GP Spyder was converted in 1990 and has “VW Sports” on the logbook. Back in those days the DVLA would just come out and look at it. My friend actually got “ Jaguar E Type “ on his Challenger eType logbook in 1989, they were quite lax back then..

SpartacusF said:

Thanks Lee, 'recent past' was 5 or 6 years ago. I need to find out exactly what is on the V5 then. As the base car, a 1973 Beetle (sorry, 'VW sports!'), is more than 40 years old, does it need an MoT? There is a clause in the MoT classic car exemption that seems to say it would need one:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...

if your GP spyder was a re-body on its unmodified chassis than the registration is (still)ok.

if the chassis was modified, therefore not "only" a re-body, your car is an example of the "missed amnesty period" ...it should be named GP Spyder or VW-GP Spyder in the V5c.....your car is incorrectly registered, fact!!

this said, if you have enough prove of the car´s history it would still be possible today to update the v5c with the correct data´s....but might be that MR. DVLA would sent you to IVA.

Is this reply aimed at me? If it is you are wrong, sorry. The fact is was built in 1990 and had the log book altered by the DVLA to "Beetle Sports" is proof it is legal. To be fair as long as the DVLA altered it, it could say Porsche RSK or Mickey Mouse's Beetle, it does not matter. Things were different back then .