Race Car Replicas - Tavarish on you tube
Discussion
Seems like RCR are getting a bad review from Tavarish with him saying the lack of penetration on the welds would indicate safety fears. I get the sense there is some bad feeling between Fran and Freddy (Tavarish) so are his welding concerns valid?
HERE'S WHY I'M CANCELLING MY BIGGEST BUILD
HERE'S WHY I'M CANCELLING MY BIGGEST BUILD
Lotus will tell you that a damaged Elise/Exige aluminium chassis should be replaced as a full unit, not repaired.
If they declined to supply a replacement chassis for a YouTuber to build a project on their chassis, would you suggest that Lotus produce a dangerously substandard product?
If they declined to supply a replacement chassis for a YouTuber to build a project on their chassis, would you suggest that Lotus produce a dangerously substandard product?
No, and I will add a little context here. Tavarish had spoken with Fran about fixing the car including buying a new frame. It seemed like the relationship was positive and they were partnering. In the video I posted Tavarish provides the follow up where he is no longer working with Fran.
I do not know any of the behind the scenes stuff and I have no bias either way hence the question of if there is a legitimate concern about the original welds and not a question about if the frame was repairable.
Here, let me post the original post again so you can reread......
So......................are the welds a concern.....
I do not know any of the behind the scenes stuff and I have no bias either way hence the question of if there is a legitimate concern about the original welds and not a question about if the frame was repairable.
Here, let me post the original post again so you can reread......
h0b0 said:
Seems like RCR are getting a bad review from Tavarish with him saying the lack of penetration on the welds would indicate safety fears. I get the sense there is some bad feeling between Fran and Freddy (Tavarish) so are his welding concerns valid?
So, are the welds a concern? If I was a gambling man I would guess that Tavarish was trying to get the parts out of Fran for free in return for good publicity. I suspect Fran realised it was going to cost him a full car due to the extent of the damage and tried to renegotiate. On hearing that Tavarish may have decided to give negative publicity instead of the positive he had agreed to.So......................are the welds a concern.....
Can I ask what axe you have to grind in this matter, and whether you have read PistonHead's No Naming and Shaming policy (rule 24)?
The penetration on the single weld that has failed does not look good, but then the fact that it is the only failure on a chassis that has clearly been involved in a big accident speaks in favour of the design and fabrication overall.
Caterhams still routinely break their chassis (the diff mountings are a known weak point, for example) just in routine day-to-day use, never mind in an accident, yet they're regarded as the cream of the industry.
The penetration on the single weld that has failed does not look good, but then the fact that it is the only failure on a chassis that has clearly been involved in a big accident speaks in favour of the design and fabrication overall.
Caterhams still routinely break their chassis (the diff mountings are a known weak point, for example) just in routine day-to-day use, never mind in an accident, yet they're regarded as the cream of the industry.
My original post had a reasonable, balanced question. Unfortunately, you read it very differently and interpreted it as being an attack on one, or the other, or in fact both.
Having never welded, I didn’t know if Tavarish had any grounds for concern. I was curious to get an insight into what was going on. If you read the comments on the video, Tavarish is coming under a lot of criticism.
All this means that it was you who came to this thread with an assumed bias. So much so that you didn’t read the posts to understand I thought Tavarish may be being unfair to Fran. The very odd out come of the thread is that despite your support for kit car builders you confirmed the welds are a cause for concern. As such, it is not I that should be concerned about naming and shaming as I didn’t make any allegations...........You did!!!!!, I just asked a question.
I don’t come to this forum often and I can accept support for a fellow English man trying to make a success in the US. I am and English man in the US. I watched the RCR build on “Gearz” and I even looked at the costs of buying one. Definitely, no axe here.
Having never welded, I didn’t know if Tavarish had any grounds for concern. I was curious to get an insight into what was going on. If you read the comments on the video, Tavarish is coming under a lot of criticism.
All this means that it was you who came to this thread with an assumed bias. So much so that you didn’t read the posts to understand I thought Tavarish may be being unfair to Fran. The very odd out come of the thread is that despite your support for kit car builders you confirmed the welds are a cause for concern. As such, it is not I that should be concerned about naming and shaming as I didn’t make any allegations...........You did!!!!!, I just asked a question.
I don’t come to this forum often and I can accept support for a fellow English man trying to make a success in the US. I am and English man in the US. I watched the RCR build on “Gearz” and I even looked at the costs of buying one. Definitely, no axe here.
H0B0, I was researching the exact same thing when I came across this thread.
As a prospective RCR customer myself, I became quite concerned when I saw the poor looking weld quality on this one car.
That concern would make any reasonable person to the exact question you raised.
Is this a one off, or a systemic issue. Also, if it was a manufacturing issue, has it been fixed?
You did the right thing by bringing this up and I see no issue with your question. The response that came back makes me wonder if perhaps you were hearing from someone with an ownership stake in RCR. ;-)
It looked a lot to me like a lawyer from the tobacco industry saying smoking is safe and you are un-American for even questioning such a well known fact.
Seeing you get basically flamed for asking a totally fair question prompted me to sign up in this forum to back you up because I don't agree with the way you were treated.
So, rather than just pulling out the flame thrower and acting like it's wrong to inquire about the safety of a vehicle, let's look at some actual data and have a reasonable discussion on the matter. If there is a problem, I hope it gets fixed and that nobody gets killed because of the defect. If it was a one-off issue, then great! Glad to know RCR makes safe products and we have nothing to worry about.
Thats the great thing about using facts and analysis. They show the TRUTH and enable wise activity.
On the youtube video, we see aluminum frame welding that is definitely not structurally sound at 3:10. Link: https://youtu.be/mvhfkC1NB54?t=190
Image of exact issue weld attached.
The response Tavarish offered from RCR where they just declined to assist is a bit concerning for me.
To add to the dialogue, I looked around for some other examples of frame weld joints on RCR SLC models. I found this example of a 2013 SLC showing very similar looking welds to the one Tavarish showed. To be fair, looks can be deceiving so let's not assume anything yet.
https://www.gt40s.com/threads/slc-build-thread-cha...
Hopefully we see some responses from RCR owners or others with primary source reference material to offer.
I hope through some meaningful research and analysis, we can find clarity and perhaps help make racing a little better in the process.
As a prospective RCR customer myself, I became quite concerned when I saw the poor looking weld quality on this one car.
That concern would make any reasonable person to the exact question you raised.
Is this a one off, or a systemic issue. Also, if it was a manufacturing issue, has it been fixed?
You did the right thing by bringing this up and I see no issue with your question. The response that came back makes me wonder if perhaps you were hearing from someone with an ownership stake in RCR. ;-)
It looked a lot to me like a lawyer from the tobacco industry saying smoking is safe and you are un-American for even questioning such a well known fact.
Seeing you get basically flamed for asking a totally fair question prompted me to sign up in this forum to back you up because I don't agree with the way you were treated.
So, rather than just pulling out the flame thrower and acting like it's wrong to inquire about the safety of a vehicle, let's look at some actual data and have a reasonable discussion on the matter. If there is a problem, I hope it gets fixed and that nobody gets killed because of the defect. If it was a one-off issue, then great! Glad to know RCR makes safe products and we have nothing to worry about.
Thats the great thing about using facts and analysis. They show the TRUTH and enable wise activity.
On the youtube video, we see aluminum frame welding that is definitely not structurally sound at 3:10. Link: https://youtu.be/mvhfkC1NB54?t=190
Image of exact issue weld attached.
The response Tavarish offered from RCR where they just declined to assist is a bit concerning for me.
To add to the dialogue, I looked around for some other examples of frame weld joints on RCR SLC models. I found this example of a 2013 SLC showing very similar looking welds to the one Tavarish showed. To be fair, looks can be deceiving so let's not assume anything yet.
https://www.gt40s.com/threads/slc-build-thread-cha...
Hopefully we see some responses from RCR owners or others with primary source reference material to offer.
I hope through some meaningful research and analysis, we can find clarity and perhaps help make racing a little better in the process.
DJP94 said:
I was researching the exact same thing when I came across this thread.
Well, there's a remarkably rapid coincidence. 
DJP94 said:
The response Tavarish offered from RCR where they just declined to assist is a bit concerning for me.
But as I pointed out in my first post, you'd get the same response from Lotus: they'd tell you that as a safety-critical item, the chassis should be replaced by a new unit, not repaired.Look at it from their point of view: someone approaches you, admitting that he's a complete novice and wanting advice on how he goes about the structural repair of one of your chassis that has been involved in a bad accident and which - being aluminium - is probably damaged beyond safe repair anyway.
Oh, and then he wants to expose the whole project based on that chassis to view by everyone on a YouTube Channel.
There's only one sensible response:
f
k.... Right.... Off. 
Hi DJP95 and welcome to the forum. Hang around and you will find info on everything and make some friends.
Equus is a well regarded poster around here and I value his contributions when I see his name. RCR have been the subject of many controversial posts particularly in the Ultima section. I tried to avoid stirring up the pot but it appears any post about RCR can’t avoid touching nerves.
Based on the evidence, I wouldn’t touch an RCR car at present. I do understand the comparisons to caterhams but unfortunately, after seeing evidence in the “show is your crash” thread there is no chance of me buying one of them either.
Equus is a well regarded poster around here and I value his contributions when I see his name. RCR have been the subject of many controversial posts particularly in the Ultima section. I tried to avoid stirring up the pot but it appears any post about RCR can’t avoid touching nerves.
Based on the evidence, I wouldn’t touch an RCR car at present. I do understand the comparisons to caterhams but unfortunately, after seeing evidence in the “show is your crash” thread there is no chance of me buying one of them either.
Equus, I just said kind things about you and you cross posted at the same time frankly coming across as a tt to a new member.
Please read what is being posted. When they discovered the damage they agreed to buy a new frame. They were not going to repair it once they knew the extent.
Once again, I will say that I don’t think Tavarish is being completely open about the situation.
Finally, Tavarish may say he is a novice but take a look at what he did with the fast and the furious Lamborghini.
t to a new member. Please read what is being posted. When they discovered the damage they agreed to buy a new frame. They were not going to repair it once they knew the extent.
Once again, I will say that I don’t think Tavarish is being completely open about the situation.
Finally, Tavarish may say he is a novice but take a look at what he did with the fast and the furious Lamborghini.
h0b0 said:
When they discovered the damage they agreed to buy a new frame.
No they did not. They wanted to buy a new frame section (4:34) to graft onto the back of the chassis tub.Which RCR did not want to sell them for entirely understandable reasons...
Don't get me wrong. I'm no RCR fanboi (neither am I set against them - as I said, they're simply not a player on the UK market), but I am very suspicious of motives when someone chooses to re-post this sort of (passive-aggressive) criticism on a forum, and even more suspicious when a 'new member' immediately turns up to support the witchhunt.
You are obviously aware of some of the past history of discussions relating to RCR on this forum, and I don't think it's an appropriate discussion to be having here, in this way, on the basis of a YouTube post that none of us know the true background to.
That's all I have to contribute to this thread.
h0b0 said:
Hi DJP95 and welcome to the forum. Hang around and you will find info on everything and make some friends.
Equus is a well regarded poster around here and I value his contributions when I see his name. RCR have been the subject of many controversial posts particularly in the Ultima section. I tried to avoid stirring up the pot but it appears any post about RCR can’t avoid touching nerves.
Based on the evidence, I wouldn’t touch an RCR car at present. I do understand the comparisons to caterhams but unfortunately, after seeing evidence in the “show is your crash” thread there is no chance of me buying one of them either.
Only 2 potential “controversial” posts I recall from the ultima forum. One from the guy who wanted to create his own branded car, one from someone who most in the ultima community don’t trust at all.Equus is a well regarded poster around here and I value his contributions when I see his name. RCR have been the subject of many controversial posts particularly in the Ultima section. I tried to avoid stirring up the pot but it appears any post about RCR can’t avoid touching nerves.
Based on the evidence, I wouldn’t touch an RCR car at present. I do understand the comparisons to caterhams but unfortunately, after seeing evidence in the “show is your crash” thread there is no chance of me buying one of them either.
Being objective, neither of the above did their homework, although I think it’s fair to say Fran
Was misleading/delusional/lying/naive about the ease of an SLC passing iva
Hi all,
Sorry it took a bit to write back. Last time I tried, the forums were locked down preventing new users from posting.
I have not seen/heard of any further primary source evidence of weld quality involving SLC.
The youtube page definitely has a lot of strong opinions on what Tavarish found but thats still just one car.
The reason for the interesting timing is that a guy on youtube with a million followers posted something. I was one of those million and saw the video. Next I started researching for myself to see what I could learn about a vehicle I've considered using as the base for my next race car.
Hopefully we can see some conclusive evidence on this topic one way or the other. If I find anything worthwhile, I'll be sure to share it.
Thanks,
Dave
Sorry it took a bit to write back. Last time I tried, the forums were locked down preventing new users from posting.
I have not seen/heard of any further primary source evidence of weld quality involving SLC.
The youtube page definitely has a lot of strong opinions on what Tavarish found but thats still just one car.
The reason for the interesting timing is that a guy on youtube with a million followers posted something. I was one of those million and saw the video. Next I started researching for myself to see what I could learn about a vehicle I've considered using as the base for my next race car.
Hopefully we can see some conclusive evidence on this topic one way or the other. If I find anything worthwhile, I'll be sure to share it.
Thanks,
Dave
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