Westfield Megabusa
Discussion
Thinking about a weekend toy and these have always appealed. I love the thought of a bike engined car...sound, rev happy etc. But what are they really like to own. Are they as quick as people say? Do they just make a lot of noise and then run out of puff?
It would be mostly road use so not too concerned about track performance. Just want something thats not too expensive, offers a lot of bang for buck and isn't going to breakdown every time I use it.
Cheers
It would be mostly road use so not too concerned about track performance. Just want something thats not too expensive, offers a lot of bang for buck and isn't going to breakdown every time I use it.
Cheers
Do a search for BEC vs. CEC on here - the topic has been done to death in the old days, when this part of the forum actually had some traffic. 
Bottom line is that they get much of their acceleration advantage (and compensate for the inherent lack of torque) by having very short gearing, so by the time you're doing any speed, the engine is revving very highly in comparison to a car engined car.
Some people aren't bothered by this at all (some even claim to enjoy the fact that the engine is screaming all the time); to some (myself included) it's like scraping fingernails down the blackboard of your mechanical sympathy.
They do tend to be mechanically fragile, though adherents will usually make excuses for this - we used to have one poster who claimed bullet-proof reliability, by his own every specialised criteria, despite having killed several gearboxes in the sort of mileage that wouldn't even meet the oil change interval of a car engined car. With the exception of oil surge (which can be cured, at a cost, by dry sumping) most of the problems tend to be more transmission related than actual engine... they use dog engagement transmissions and multi-plate wet clutches that simply aren't designed for the sort of inertias imposed by the weight and short gearing of a car (compare the dog ring on a bike gear with one on something like a Hewland transaxle for a race car, and you'll see what I mean).
Even if you can tolerate the mechanical fragility, most (with the exception of the most rabid fanbois) would accept that they are better suited to track use than to road use.
Bottom line is that they get much of their acceleration advantage (and compensate for the inherent lack of torque) by having very short gearing, so by the time you're doing any speed, the engine is revving very highly in comparison to a car engined car.
Some people aren't bothered by this at all (some even claim to enjoy the fact that the engine is screaming all the time); to some (myself included) it's like scraping fingernails down the blackboard of your mechanical sympathy.
They do tend to be mechanically fragile, though adherents will usually make excuses for this - we used to have one poster who claimed bullet-proof reliability, by his own every specialised criteria, despite having killed several gearboxes in the sort of mileage that wouldn't even meet the oil change interval of a car engined car. With the exception of oil surge (which can be cured, at a cost, by dry sumping) most of the problems tend to be more transmission related than actual engine... they use dog engagement transmissions and multi-plate wet clutches that simply aren't designed for the sort of inertias imposed by the weight and short gearing of a car (compare the dog ring on a bike gear with one on something like a Hewland transaxle for a race car, and you'll see what I mean).
Even if you can tolerate the mechanical fragility, most (with the exception of the most rabid fanbois) would accept that they are better suited to track use than to road use.
Equus said:
Do a search for BEC vs. CEC on here - the topic has been done to death in the old days, when this part of the forum actually had some traffic.
Bottom line is that they get much of their acceleration advantage (and compensate for the inherent lack of torque) by having very short gearing, so by the time you're doing any speed, the engine is revving very highly in comparison to a car engined car.
Some people aren't bothered by this at all (some even claim to enjoy the fact that the engine is screaming all the time); to some (myself included) it's like scraping fingernails down the blackboard of your mechanical sympathy.
They do tend to be mechanically fragile, though adherents will usually make excuses for this - we used to have one poster who claimed bullet-proof reliability, by his own every specialised criteria, despite having killed several gearboxes in the sort of mileage that wouldn't even meet the oil change interval of a car engined car. With the exception of oil surge (which can be cured, at a cost, by dry sumping) most of the problems tend to be more transmission related than actual engine... they use dog engagement transmissions and multi-plate wet clutches that simply aren't designed for the sort of inertias imposed by the weight and short gearing of a car (compare the dog ring on a bike gear with one on something like a Hewland transaxle for a race car, and you'll see what I mean).
Even if you can tolerate the mechanical fragility, most (with the exception of the most rabid fanbois) would accept that they are better suited to track use than to road use.
Great stuff, thanks for all the info.Bottom line is that they get much of their acceleration advantage (and compensate for the inherent lack of torque) by having very short gearing, so by the time you're doing any speed, the engine is revving very highly in comparison to a car engined car.
Some people aren't bothered by this at all (some even claim to enjoy the fact that the engine is screaming all the time); to some (myself included) it's like scraping fingernails down the blackboard of your mechanical sympathy.
They do tend to be mechanically fragile, though adherents will usually make excuses for this - we used to have one poster who claimed bullet-proof reliability, by his own every specialised criteria, despite having killed several gearboxes in the sort of mileage that wouldn't even meet the oil change interval of a car engined car. With the exception of oil surge (which can be cured, at a cost, by dry sumping) most of the problems tend to be more transmission related than actual engine... they use dog engagement transmissions and multi-plate wet clutches that simply aren't designed for the sort of inertias imposed by the weight and short gearing of a car (compare the dog ring on a bike gear with one on something like a Hewland transaxle for a race car, and you'll see what I mean).
Even if you can tolerate the mechanical fragility, most (with the exception of the most rabid fanbois) would accept that they are better suited to track use than to road use.
I've had three westies, all CECs. I hankered for a BEC mainly for track use and having paddle shifters. I didn't buy a BEC because just about all of the Westfield forum BEC posts seemed to be people rebuilding engines and gearboxes, that and talking about "getting used to " difficult low speed driving .
There are plenty of very very fast CEC Westfield's out there. Even my 4age 16v twincam SE was fast ( on the road). My V8 was insane, and my na Cossie was a race car, but just too loud. The last two were fast on the track as well as the road.
Buy something with a genuine 200bhp or more for proper mad acceleration.
There are plenty of very very fast CEC Westfield's out there. Even my 4age 16v twincam SE was fast ( on the road). My V8 was insane, and my na Cossie was a race car, but just too loud. The last two were fast on the track as well as the road.
Buy something with a genuine 200bhp or more for proper mad acceleration.
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 8th May 09:44
Perhaps a Honda S2000 engined car would be a compromise. Many say the S2000 engine in its original car is too torqueless, but in a 600kg chassis it would be pretty good and you still have the 9k rpm and 200bhp to play with. Plus the Honda gearbox is an absolute peach. My Westfield has a creaky old Pinto in it and it still scares my witless sometimes!
motco said:
My Westfield has a creaky old Pinto in it and it still scares my witless sometimes!
I test drove a westfield a few years ago with a pinto in. It was built as a hillclimb car, but I wanted a road car. It had not long had a rebuilt Vulcan 2.1 engine with 205 block IIRC. Lightened flywheel, race clutch, big carbs. I stalled it three times and was a pig to drive slowly. It coughed and spluttered until you got to about 3.5krpm, then all hell broke loose. It felt like a quick car and had more immediate shove (as soon as it was "on cam") than the BEC's I've been in, which tend to wind on more progressively, but keep on going for more.
Ambleton said:
motco said:
My Westfield has a creaky old Pinto in it and it still scares my witless sometimes!
I test drove a westfield a few years ago with a pinto in. It was built as a hillclimb car, but I wanted a road car. It had not long had a rebuilt Vulcan 2.1 engine with 205 block IIRC. Lightened flywheel, race clutch, big carbs. I stalled it three times and was a pig to drive slowly. It coughed and spluttered until you got to about 3.5krpm, then all hell broke loose. It felt like a quick car and had more immediate shove (as soon as it was "on cam") than the BEC's I've been in, which tend to wind on more progressively, but keep on going for more.
I had a Megablade for about 5 or 6 years. The bike bits were pretty reliable - it was the kit-car bits that always needed tinkering with. That's a big part of why I got rid of it in the end. I wasn't getting much use out of it because you couldn't just get it in it and go somewhere, you had to fix various things first, pack a tool kit, check the weather etc.
It was awful to drive in town or in traffic - clunky gears, hard to find neutral, dragging clutch etc. It needed 4000 revs to drive happily at 30mph, and 6500 to cruise at 70 in 6th gear.
It was all worth it though when you came to a twisty B-Road!
It was awful to drive in town or in traffic - clunky gears, hard to find neutral, dragging clutch etc. It needed 4000 revs to drive happily at 30mph, and 6500 to cruise at 70 in 6th gear.
It was all worth it though when you came to a twisty B-Road!
motco said:
Perhaps a Honda S2000 engined car would be a compromise. Many say the S2000 engine in its original car is too torqueless, but in a 600kg chassis it would be pretty good and you still have the 9k rpm and 200bhp to play with. Plus the Honda gearbox is an absolute peach. My Westfield has a creaky old Pinto in it and it still scares my witless sometimes!
I've owned a Megabusa, at the same time I had an S2000 in my garage, I wished I could put that Honda engine in the Westfield... Sold the Megabusa and also the S2000, one day a Westfield with an S2000 engine was advertised on ebay, bought it... haven't looked back. I agree - a decent car engine in a Westfield is just going to be easier to live with for 95% of the time. We all know that a bike engined car is going to be quicker when flat out, but unless its on a track, the opportunities to drive flat-out are pretty limited.
My Westie has a fairly tame Zetec silvertop - about 170bhp. Its fairly rapid when needed, but more importantly, I can happily trundle around town in a high gear / low revs and I don't have to make an idiot of myself by dialing in 6,000rpm to pull away from the lights.
A few of the Westfield Club members have S2000 power and they are extremely rapid - probably all the engine you'd ever need in a sub-600kg kit car
My Westie has a fairly tame Zetec silvertop - about 170bhp. Its fairly rapid when needed, but more importantly, I can happily trundle around town in a high gear / low revs and I don't have to make an idiot of myself by dialing in 6,000rpm to pull away from the lights.
A few of the Westfield Club members have S2000 power and they are extremely rapid - probably all the engine you'd ever need in a sub-600kg kit car
I used to think a properly fettled Duratec would be ideal, but since my son owned an early Honda S2000 (53 plate) for a while and I drove it a few times, I changed my mind. It's a lovely engine with ample torque for a lightweight like a Westfield, and 9k rpm when required! On top of this, the Honda gear change is the nicest I have ever encountered.
Bike engine in a 7 is a joy on a warm day on a tight track or twisty b road.
They can be hateful in town and you can feel a bit of a knob having to do 6000 rpm just to do a hill start.
I also had to buy a trailer so i could take it to tracks because a couple of hours on the motorway will drive you nuts.
If you are in any doubt get something with a car engine,
Lastly having driven about in a bike engined car I had an epiphany"if this engine is this much fun in a car,it must be awesome on a bike"
I now play on bikes its more fun.
They can be hateful in town and you can feel a bit of a knob having to do 6000 rpm just to do a hill start.
I also had to buy a trailer so i could take it to tracks because a couple of hours on the motorway will drive you nuts.
If you are in any doubt get something with a car engine,
Lastly having driven about in a bike engined car I had an epiphany"if this engine is this much fun in a car,it must be awesome on a bike"
I now play on bikes its more fun.
I also have a seven with a Hayabusa built with intention to do mainly road miles and the odd track day, its now the other way and seldom sees any road time.
To date I haven't had any mechanical issues related to the engine and drive train only break downs I have had was one the relay packed in that ran the electric water pump I chose to fit and a fuel pump failure.
If I was to start now with a blank page I would be fitting the Ford 1.6 Ecoboost from the fiesta having recently driven one. With 220Bhp out of the box and not tampered with its more than you will ever need in a road based car, its so docile in traffic and a lunatic on the gas. and can get 40mpg
To date I haven't had any mechanical issues related to the engine and drive train only break downs I have had was one the relay packed in that ran the electric water pump I chose to fit and a fuel pump failure.
If I was to start now with a blank page I would be fitting the Ford 1.6 Ecoboost from the fiesta having recently driven one. With 220Bhp out of the box and not tampered with its more than you will ever need in a road based car, its so docile in traffic and a lunatic on the gas. and can get 40mpg
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