Electric Westfield
Discussion
Is anybody out there building (or has built) an electric Westfield?
I am considering building a Westfield kit I have acquired into a fully electric car.
I am installing a solar panel system that will give me a total electricity production sufficient for my home, businesses and at least 2 EV’s as well as a bit to sell to the grid.
I have petrol guzzlers and see this as a learning opportunity.
I am considering building a Westfield kit I have acquired into a fully electric car.
I am installing a solar panel system that will give me a total electricity production sufficient for my home, businesses and at least 2 EV’s as well as a bit to sell to the grid.
I have petrol guzzlers and see this as a learning opportunity.
Not personally, but this page is in my favourites:
http://store.evtv.me/products.php
Might be of interest?
http://store.evtv.me/products.php
Might be of interest?
I can’t remember his username, but the owner/builder of this car is on here and had a build thread running. Iirc prime purpose was drag racing, although i guess range anxiety isn’t a concern on barbados.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MbnwdR6Duvc
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MbnwdR6Duvc
Glasgowrob said:
my only concern with an electric westfield would be the sheer weight of the battery packs required to give any short of range.
personally i'd drop an RX8 running gear setup into it
Glasgowrob, we should be friends!!personally i'd drop an RX8 running gear setup into it
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
This old thread might be of interest, OP. Seems like an electric Westfield has been done before!
Might be worth getting in touch with Stuart Mills of MEV fame, he seems to have done some work on the subject!
Glasgowrob said:
my only concern with an electric westfield would be the sheer weight of the battery packs required to give any short of range.
personally i'd drop an RX8 running gear setup into it
The RX8 idea is one I have thought about before too, having owned an RX8 many years ago. Doesn't seem to be that common either.personally i'd drop an RX8 running gear setup into it
Glasgowrob said:
surely the renesis engine and box is the perfect kit car setup?
cheap to buy a donor fantastic 6 speed box and a revvy engine that seems to be a perfect fit for a lighter smaller car. than what it currently lives in
Not great for someone looking to have an electric car project to play with though.cheap to buy a donor fantastic 6 speed box and a revvy engine that seems to be a perfect fit for a lighter smaller car. than what it currently lives in
OP I'd consider all things fire related very seriously at the start of your project... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdDi1haA71Q
Munter said:
Not great for someone looking to have an electric car project to play with though.
OP I'd consider all things fire related very seriously at the start of your project... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdDi1haA71Q
could use it as a generator set OP I'd consider all things fire related very seriously at the start of your project... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdDi1haA71Q
https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2018/10/09/mazda-con...
There was a Westfield racer displayed at the Fuly Charged Show at Silverstone last summer which was developed by Westfield and a consultancy a few years back.
The guy from the consultancy which developed them for Westfield had brought his along, he bought it after the project finished from an Electricity company (I guess one of the sponsors) who had theirs on display, forgot to charge it and “bricked” it. He fixed it and now races it, but is having more trouble with this as circuits are getting very nervous about EV car fires.
The original prototype had the engine in the boot and batteries at the front but this made the handling very twitchy with the car essentially a big dumbbell mass wise. This car was completely redesigned and you can see the motor, controller and charger under the bonnet. The batteries are in a 3 inch deep flat pack under the chassis keeping the weight very low and centered.
Here is the cockpit
And some notes he had.
Architecture depends on Budget. I have put a little thought into this...
A highish end build with best power to weight would be say 5 Tesla Model S batteries giving 125V and 30kWh (25kg each before enclosures).
This could drive a £4k Hyper9 AC motor (~60kg) giving 120hp and 175ftlbs of torque which would be more than enough for a Type 9 gearbox. Have a look at Electric classic cars website for prices in the UK but more info on the EVWest site for kits which include motor controller and other odds and sods.
You must also budget for a BMS controller to prevent fires from starting – Orion or ZEVA seem to be options. The Tesla modules cost around £1200 each with a BMS board which can talk to the BMS controllers. There is room in a Westy for at least 1 Tesla module (I have measured!) and room for 4 more under the bonnet mounted over the motor, but the weight is mounted quite high but distributed not that far from a cast iron engine and fuel tank car. If it was me I would water cool Tesla batteries to prevent hot spots as well as optimise spirited driving range.
You will need a charger to convert mains to DC to charge the traction battery. which is £500 to £1000, and a DC to DC converter to charge the battery - but I would b
dize and re calibrate an old PC power supply.
I will do this one day but maybe not with a Westy. If you are planning to do it and get it road legal get on with it if you are building from scratch as IVA will be getting tougher very soon and will require 3rd party engineering inspection potentially costing thousands (should have done last summer but did not happen). Converting an existing ICE with a V5 is simpler, but you still need to inform DVLA of your plans in advance and get them approved before, then get MoT, then get check at DVLA site to confirm conversion is done before you get a new V5.
HTH
The guy from the consultancy which developed them for Westfield had brought his along, he bought it after the project finished from an Electricity company (I guess one of the sponsors) who had theirs on display, forgot to charge it and “bricked” it. He fixed it and now races it, but is having more trouble with this as circuits are getting very nervous about EV car fires.
The original prototype had the engine in the boot and batteries at the front but this made the handling very twitchy with the car essentially a big dumbbell mass wise. This car was completely redesigned and you can see the motor, controller and charger under the bonnet. The batteries are in a 3 inch deep flat pack under the chassis keeping the weight very low and centered.
Here is the cockpit
And some notes he had.
Architecture depends on Budget. I have put a little thought into this...
A highish end build with best power to weight would be say 5 Tesla Model S batteries giving 125V and 30kWh (25kg each before enclosures).
This could drive a £4k Hyper9 AC motor (~60kg) giving 120hp and 175ftlbs of torque which would be more than enough for a Type 9 gearbox. Have a look at Electric classic cars website for prices in the UK but more info on the EVWest site for kits which include motor controller and other odds and sods.
You must also budget for a BMS controller to prevent fires from starting – Orion or ZEVA seem to be options. The Tesla modules cost around £1200 each with a BMS board which can talk to the BMS controllers. There is room in a Westy for at least 1 Tesla module (I have measured!) and room for 4 more under the bonnet mounted over the motor, but the weight is mounted quite high but distributed not that far from a cast iron engine and fuel tank car. If it was me I would water cool Tesla batteries to prevent hot spots as well as optimise spirited driving range.
You will need a charger to convert mains to DC to charge the traction battery. which is £500 to £1000, and a DC to DC converter to charge the battery - but I would b
dize and re calibrate an old PC power supply.I will do this one day but maybe not with a Westy. If you are planning to do it and get it road legal get on with it if you are building from scratch as IVA will be getting tougher very soon and will require 3rd party engineering inspection potentially costing thousands (should have done last summer but did not happen). Converting an existing ICE with a V5 is simpler, but you still need to inform DVLA of your plans in advance and get them approved before, then get MoT, then get check at DVLA site to confirm conversion is done before you get a new V5.
HTH
A few reasons really:
1) Having a clutch allows you to quickly disconnect the motor in case a wiring fault fails with wide open throttle. Saved my bacon a while ago with a TVR S and stuck throttle cable!
2) I think the springs on the clutch plate soften the impact of the immediate torque on the gear box.
3) more performance and the fun of driving a car with gears!
4) there are adapter plates available for quite a range of gearboxes to bolt them to the more popular motors which make the conversion more turn key width out need for super accurate measurements to make a custom one which is aligned correctly. EVWest and Canev are a couple of suppliers...
If I was to use the Type 9 I would limit the toque to protect the gearbox. Ideally I would over specify the gearbox as much as possible - perhaps a T5 if it would fit, also traditional gearboxes are not fond of regen reverse torque, but I would keep regen limited for a rear wheel drive car to avoid lift off oversteer.
1) Having a clutch allows you to quickly disconnect the motor in case a wiring fault fails with wide open throttle. Saved my bacon a while ago with a TVR S and stuck throttle cable!
2) I think the springs on the clutch plate soften the impact of the immediate torque on the gear box.
3) more performance and the fun of driving a car with gears!
4) there are adapter plates available for quite a range of gearboxes to bolt them to the more popular motors which make the conversion more turn key width out need for super accurate measurements to make a custom one which is aligned correctly. EVWest and Canev are a couple of suppliers...
If I was to use the Type 9 I would limit the toque to protect the gearbox. Ideally I would over specify the gearbox as much as possible - perhaps a T5 if it would fit, also traditional gearboxes are not fond of regen reverse torque, but I would keep regen limited for a rear wheel drive car to avoid lift off oversteer.
Edited by Spunagain on Friday 25th January 11:12
Spunagain said:
A few reasons really:
1) Having a clutch allows you to quickly disconnect the motor in case a wiring fault fails with wide open throttle. Saved my bacon a while ago with a TVR S and stuck throttle cable!
2) I think the springs on the clutch plate soften the impact of the immediate torque on the gear box.
3) more performance and the fun of driving a car with gears!
4) there are adapter plates available for quite a range of gearboxes to bolt them to the more popular motors which make the conversion more turn key width out need for super accurate measurements to make a custom one which is aligned correctly. EVWest and Canev are a couple of suppliers...
If I was to use the Type 9 I would limit the toque to protect the gearbox. Ideally I would over specify the gearbox as much as possible - perhaps a T5 if it would fit, also traditional gearboxes are not fond of regen reverse torque, but I would keep regen limited for a rear wheel drive car to avoid lift off oversteer.
1. Use a dog clutch. Much lighter1) Having a clutch allows you to quickly disconnect the motor in case a wiring fault fails with wide open throttle. Saved my bacon a while ago with a TVR S and stuck throttle cable!
2) I think the springs on the clutch plate soften the impact of the immediate torque on the gear box.
3) more performance and the fun of driving a car with gears!
4) there are adapter plates available for quite a range of gearboxes to bolt them to the more popular motors which make the conversion more turn key width out need for super accurate measurements to make a custom one which is aligned correctly. EVWest and Canev are a couple of suppliers...
If I was to use the Type 9 I would limit the toque to protect the gearbox. Ideally I would over specify the gearbox as much as possible - perhaps a T5 if it would fit, also traditional gearboxes are not fond of regen reverse torque, but I would keep regen limited for a rear wheel drive car to avoid lift off oversteer.
Edited by Spunagain on Friday 25th January 11:12
2. Use controller electronics for a soft start
3. Better off turning clutch and gearbox weight into engine and battery weight for performance. Fewer parts = more reliability. There's a reason Teslas don't have gearboxes.
Just my tuppence worth.
Gemaeden said:
1. Use a dog clutch. Much lighter
2. Use controller electronics for a soft start
3. Better off turning clutch and gearbox weight into engine and battery weight for performance. Fewer parts = more reliability. There's a reason Teslas don't have gearboxes.
Just my tuppence worth.
👍2. Use controller electronics for a soft start
3. Better off turning clutch and gearbox weight into engine and battery weight for performance. Fewer parts = more reliability. There's a reason Teslas don't have gearboxes.
Just my tuppence worth.
shirt said:
I can’t remember his username, but the owner/builder of this car is on here and had a build thread running. Iirc prime purpose was drag racing, although i guess range anxiety isn’t a concern on barbados.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MbnwdR6Duvc
The build thread is here:https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MbnwdR6Duvc
https://forum.wscc.co.uk/forum/topic/121032-the-fa...
Gemaeden said:
1. Use a dog clutch. Much lighter
2. Use controller electronics for a soft start
3. Better off turning clutch and gearbox weight into engine and battery weight for performance. Fewer parts = more reliability. There's a reason Teslas don't have gearboxes.
Just my tuppence worth.
All good points!2. Use controller electronics for a soft start
3. Better off turning clutch and gearbox weight into engine and battery weight for performance. Fewer parts = more reliability. There's a reason Teslas don't have gearboxes.
Just my tuppence worth.
I had not considered dog clutches, would you need to machine something custom? Also worth mentioning some EV guys hard connect the motor drive shaft direct to the gearbox. For what I have read you can change gear but not as quickly as with a friction clutch. I would worry that in a wide open throttle fail the torque may make it hard to force the gearbox into neutral.
I have read through the manuals for a couple of the off the shelf I was looking at and they did not seem to have soft start settings, worth another look though.
Tesla’s do have gearboxes but they are just single speed boxes, you may still need some sort of box between the motor and diff as to get a sensible top speed you might find it tough to find an axle with the right ratio.
You could if you have a spare £8k buy a Tesla small motor module and custom controller here all you need is to bolt on the drive shafts, but not sure it would fit in the back of a Westy!
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