Dax rush with cossie engine????

Dax rush with cossie engine????

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Discussion

ultimaandy

Original Poster:

1,225 posts

271 months

Monday 9th September 2002
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I am considering a cossie powered Dax rush (more than considering actually) but have my reservations about the intercooler.

My engine needs an RS500 alloy intercooler and I don't think the standard 4x4 one will cope even with a ram air effect. Lowering the power is not a real option! (I want over 500bhp per ton)

Has anyone built one of these cars and have any sollutions/comments?

Thanks
Andy

juansolo

3,012 posts

285 months

Monday 9th September 2002
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I want over 500bhp/ton

Living live a 1/4 mile at a time eh?

bennno

12,733 posts

276 months

Monday 9th September 2002
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talk to clifford cox engineering in Reading, they are just completing one for a customer.

looks pretty mad, turned out the lot that built it made a bodge of the engine conversion so CC have been tasked with sorting it out

Bennno

westy

9 posts

268 months

Tuesday 10th September 2002
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you will have to take him out in your cossy powered rocket juansolo when its finished

juansolo

3,012 posts

285 months

Tuesday 10th September 2002
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Indeed. Turbos are not required and IMO make them far too much of a handfull.

ultimaandy

Original Poster:

1,225 posts

271 months

Thursday 12th September 2002
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Its going to have no screen, no interior, alloy panels etc and only marginaly less Bhp/ton than my Ultima.

But a lot cheaper!

also considering putting my 6 speed box from a lotus carlton in it?
Do you think it would pull the redline in 6th ie over 250mph?
Maybe not but it will be fun trying!

Oh and going to use it to comute 30miles to work!

juansolo

3,012 posts

285 months

Thursday 12th September 2002
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Hmm. If you're serious then you are gonna hit big problems. Caterfields are an aerodynamic brick and you'll struggle to get one beyond 140-150mph (quite where you could do this anyhow I don't know). There will be traction issues with it being in such a light car. Also you will enjoy the lag that comes with an old school turbo's which will try and throw you into the scenery when it spools up when you are powering out of a corner.

There are Westfield Cossie Turbos out there with power in the region of 330bhp (it will be wieghing in at over 600kgs with all the additional cooling requirements). Don't get me wrong, that's a shitload of power but it's best put into something that can actually deal with it like an Ultima. If explosive acceleration and top speed are your bag then there can be no other choice.

As for Caterfields, light and nimble is their thing. Because of this you don't need big power to go quickly.

>> Edited by juansolo on Thursday 12th September 14:21

ultimaandy

Original Poster:

1,225 posts

271 months

Thursday 12th September 2002
quotequote all
The Ultima is..... well..... the Ultimate.

However I only get about 13mpg when I take it work and I don't really want to put too many miles on it.

Unfortunatelly my 13sec cossie now feels as slow as F**K and is expensive to insure so I want something new.

I have had the cossie for 8yrs with 25psi so know the lag problem and I used to commute on a Bike so comfort isn't an issue. I really just want something to rival the Ultima in performance even if I have to wrestle it round corners.

I have been lead to believe the Dax Rush can handle this kind of power (a real 360Bhp) even in the 2wd formatt and this is the route I now fancy taking.

Am I asking too much?

juansolo

3,012 posts

285 months

Thursday 12th September 2002
quotequote all
Yes.

If you're really wanting to put the Cossie into a Seven then I would convert it to N/A. Yup, rip the turbo off it and either go thottle bodies (very expensive) or carbs. It is a really good engine in this config though the cost of conversion is a lot (visit John Wilcox Competition Engines to be scared). Drop it into a 7 though and you have something special. Lots of torque, smooth power delivery and decent power.

This is what I run.

Mark Adams

356 posts

267 months

Thursday 12th September 2002
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Why not use a supercharged 4.6 V8?

Totally reliable, 325BHP, 360lb/ft, with catalysts. The supercharger is a bit small (Eaton M90) due to space limitations, hence the conservative torque figures. Using an M112 with intercooler pushes this up to 350BHP, 430lb/ft (sadly too big to fit).

A naturally aspirated 5.3 will do 340BHP, 380lb/ft. Just a thought.

I have photos if you want to see (don't flame me please)!

juansolo

3,012 posts

285 months

Thursday 12th September 2002
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Heavy. Ok not necessarily the engine but V8 Westies generally wiegh in at 700+kgs. Once again, what's the point? Balistcally quick in a straight line but the cornering is compromised.

ultimaandy

Original Poster:

1,225 posts

271 months

Thursday 12th September 2002
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Hope to get below 600kgs.....
Thats the car before you ask!

JonRB

76,105 posts

279 months

Thursday 12th September 2002
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I have a copy if Kit Car International upstairs that has a feature on the 4WD Dax Rush Quadra fitted with a tuned up Cosworth lump that clocked 0-60 in 3.15 secs. Is that the kind of thing you were thinking of?

EDIT: Right, I've just popped upstairs. The issue is the "KitCars International Guide to Lotus 7 Inspired Roadsters", Number One 2000.

It was Duncan Cowper who put it together. 400bhp at 1.8 bar boost, 0-60 in 3.15secs, 0-100 in 7.62secs, 0-100-0 11secs. Weight is 699kgs.

Contact DJ Sportscars, 01279 442661

>> Edited by JonRB on Thursday 12th September 22:49

joost

50 posts

268 months

Tuesday 17th September 2002
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Andy listen to Juansolo.
You wan't even dare to take a Dax Cosworth Turbo if it's wet. It's not an everyday nor a trackday car.
Don't make te mistake to compare a normal Cossie with a Cosworth Turbo motor in a Dax. Compared to this car your Ultimate behaves like a pussycat.
I ve had a VW Golf VR6 Turbo with real 400Bhp from HPG frontwheeldrive.
A cossie turbo is not an option for a seven.
I ve you drive it you will screem Holy sh*t every time it comes on boost.
If you want a turbo take the Hayabusa Turbo or go 4x4 in a seven. See the other Thread.
quote:


Unfortunatelly my 13sec cossie now feels as slow as F**K and is expensive to insure so I want something new.

I have had the cossie for 8yrs with 25psi so know the lag problem and I used to commute on a Bike so comfort isn't an issue. I really just want something to rival the Ultima in performance even if I have to wrestle it round corners.

I have been lead to believe the Dax Rush can handle this kind of power (a real 360Bhp) even in the 2wd formatt and this is the route I now fancy taking.

Am I asking too much?

ultimaandy

Original Poster:

1,225 posts

271 months

Tuesday 17th September 2002
quotequote all
I'm glad I started this thread.

Better to find out now than after the SVA!

Is there anything out there that can handle it or am I relagated to keeping the cossie and being run rings round by you guys.

How about the RS200 replica with the engine in the back?

juansolo

3,012 posts

285 months

Wednesday 18th September 2002
quotequote all
Big power is not neccessary if you want to go quick around a track.

Point in case: At a recent TD there was a large selection of 7 type machinery. Pretty much every type of engine was in attendence from the BEC's to V8's and everything in between. Now, not withstanding that by far the thing that makes one car quicker than another at a TD is actually the driver and not what is under the bonnet and besides, you're not racing when it comes to TD's..., probably one of the quickest cars there was a Sylva with a pretty much boggo 1.8 Zetec on carbs under the bonnet. Not a lot of power at all but what made the car special was it's extreme light weight. It's handling was awesome as was the speed that he was able to punt it around the circuit.

The beauty of his setup was the simplicity of it. I also love the idea (having recently lunched my engine) of having a pretty much standard engine under the bonnet that can be swapped very cheaply if you pop it.

If I was building another track car it would be using this ethos. Personally I'd be fitting a boggo 1.6 XE with strengthend bolts, dry sumped, on TB's. A very light engine that produces a suprising amount of power in this configuration (about 150bhp). I'd chuck it into a Striker or a Phoenix chassis and be looking at getting the weight to around the 450kg mark (non-road legal). That's 333bhp/ton. A lot when you consider my 2.1 N/A Cossie Westie only produces 17bhp/ton more(it's a lot heavier) and still goes like the proverbial around a circuit.

What I'm trying to say is that the obssession with big bhp doesn't neccessarily make a quick 7. You have to strike the right balanace of power to weight. Get it right and the rewards are that it will handle better and, providing you are sensible, (look at the Evo long term Cat 7 for an example of not being sensible) it won't cost you silly money.

smeagol

1,947 posts

291 months

Wednesday 18th September 2002
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I agree with the "light weight = more power and better handling" phylosophy after all that was Chapmans whole thought on this design. What do you think of the bike engined route. I think a standard Heyubussa, or Blade engine would be ideal for the weekend/trackday car light, good power, free sequential gears!

The only concern would be longevity of this kind of setup, although talking to DAX certainly showed that its not as big a problem as some other manufacters would have you believe.

joost

50 posts

268 months

Wednesday 18th September 2002
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I don't think reliability is real issue on a proper Hayabusa kit. I know somebody who owns a kitcar with a hayabusa engine and he drove 9000 miles without a problem (and he is still going on). He realy trashes the car. An other car with a Hayabusa engine did 1.5 year trackdays and demonstrations without a problem.

juansolo

3,012 posts

285 months

Wednesday 18th September 2002
quotequote all
Hayabusa's are the daddy of bike engines if done properly. Unfortunately doing it properly will cost you in the region of £4000 for the engine once it's been dry sumped and had the relevant bits and pieces strengthend.

The R1 looks pretty special as it seems you only need to do some minor baffling in the sump and odd other bits. It's a lighter engine and tuning it will yield around 175bhp for around £1500-1800.

However saying that I've seen quite a few bike engines pop on trackdays. More so than car engines. 'Birds seem to be particulaly suseptable. You could go with a 'Blade that is a nice light, cheap lump and just treat it as disposable I suppose.

I'm not convinced however, they sound gorgeous, the go stupidly fast and have a nice sequential box - yes. But I've seen too many of them pop and I just prefer the torque and power delivery of a car engine.

Each to their own I suppose.

ultimaandy

Original Poster:

1,225 posts

271 months

Wednesday 18th September 2002
quotequote all
Dry sump is a good point.

I expect my cossie engine will need some sump mods to cope with a better handling chasis.

My ultima has a serious baffled sump and an accusump.

My dream of sailing past my Ultima in my 10k track toy is drifting away!