Can I Build a Cobra Replica with a £10000 Budget?
Discussion
Hello,
I understand this may be unrealistic but I thought it was worth asking.
I'm looking for a decent project to do before (hopefully) embarking on a career in mechanical (automotive) engineering.
I was wondering if I bought a Dax chassis and body and then sourced the other parts from a donor car etc, would it be possible to keep the cost as low as £10000?
I really do love the Cobra but it could be that I am being unrealistic. Does anyone have any suggests for a good kit car / automotive project (low budget)? I am an ambitious guy looking for a challenge that will improve my practical skills and increase my engineering knowledge.
Thanks for your time and help.
Dan
I understand this may be unrealistic but I thought it was worth asking.
I'm looking for a decent project to do before (hopefully) embarking on a career in mechanical (automotive) engineering.
I was wondering if I bought a Dax chassis and body and then sourced the other parts from a donor car etc, would it be possible to keep the cost as low as £10000?
I really do love the Cobra but it could be that I am being unrealistic. Does anyone have any suggests for a good kit car / automotive project (low budget)? I am an ambitious guy looking for a challenge that will improve my practical skills and increase my engineering knowledge.
Thanks for your time and help.
Dan
I tried that back in 1990, spent £14k and ended up with a pile of crap. Sold it for £8k within a year and considered myself very lucky. To be fair, my biggest mistake was starting with a Pilgrim Sumo kit. Basically, I bought a cheap kit, put relatively expensive bits on it and ended up with a cheap and nasty car. The 'chassis' was fundamentally flawed in every way and could never be any good. At that time, I don't know any better. It looked nice enough with all the right shiny bits and the engine was OK for an RV8 but I hated that car with a passion because I had messed up so badly by thinking I could make a good job with such a poor start. I had wanted to build either a Southern Roadcraft or GD 427 car but felt I couldn't afford the kit. If I had put the bits I used on the Pilgrim onto one of those, I'd have had a good car.
If you could get a Dax chassis and body within your budget, you'd probably have no money left to buy the rest of what's needed to any decent standard. The small details really soak up money. Nice windscreen, seats, trim, wheels, instruments, brightwork. Even decent light fittings make a difference. Cheap one always look cheap.
Honestly, I think it would be a mistake if you tried to build a car like that without a decent budget. You love the Cobra, don't do yourself or the dream the injustice of trying to do it on the cheap. Wait until you can afford a sensible budget and keep the dream alive.
For £10k, to end up with a decent car I think you are looking at either one of MEVs single donor products and keeping a tight lid on costs or possibly one of the many LoCost options and going totally DIY. Then the budget will be fine but you will need to provide lots of time, effort and skill to bridge the gap and make sure not to get carried away with spec either.
FWIW, I'm currently building one of these: www.midlana.com My goal is as cheap a build as I can sensibly achieve without compromising on stuff that matters. Originally, I had thought I'd even be using MX5 seats but now I have a bit more budget I'm going with JK seats, and one or two things I expected to be fabricating myself I have purchased ready made. Things like the pedalbox and gear linkage. Both relatively cheap items that would have taken a fair bit of time to make properly. One way I am controlling expenses is by using a completely stock engine & gearbox with the donor car ECU and instruments. Biggest challenge there will be to make the instrument cluster look decent. I've been down the rabbit hole of aftermarket ECU and engine tuning often enough to not do it this time - its expensive. I am also resisting the urge to mess with the engine. It doesn't need it. I drove the engine donor 200 miles when I bought it and know the engine is sound. You can throw a lot of money at an engine needlessly if you aren't careful (I've done that often enough). The trick is knowing when to leave well alone or when you need to dig in to save future problems. Just do the basic service items like cam belts, water pump etc and any other things that the donor is known for and leave it at that. Yes, it feels great to totally strip the engine, replace everything and do a full rebuild but so often they just don't need it these days.
Just my opinion of course, others will no doubt disagree and have equally valid views.
Good luck with whatever you decide though.
If you could get a Dax chassis and body within your budget, you'd probably have no money left to buy the rest of what's needed to any decent standard. The small details really soak up money. Nice windscreen, seats, trim, wheels, instruments, brightwork. Even decent light fittings make a difference. Cheap one always look cheap.
Honestly, I think it would be a mistake if you tried to build a car like that without a decent budget. You love the Cobra, don't do yourself or the dream the injustice of trying to do it on the cheap. Wait until you can afford a sensible budget and keep the dream alive.
For £10k, to end up with a decent car I think you are looking at either one of MEVs single donor products and keeping a tight lid on costs or possibly one of the many LoCost options and going totally DIY. Then the budget will be fine but you will need to provide lots of time, effort and skill to bridge the gap and make sure not to get carried away with spec either.
FWIW, I'm currently building one of these: www.midlana.com My goal is as cheap a build as I can sensibly achieve without compromising on stuff that matters. Originally, I had thought I'd even be using MX5 seats but now I have a bit more budget I'm going with JK seats, and one or two things I expected to be fabricating myself I have purchased ready made. Things like the pedalbox and gear linkage. Both relatively cheap items that would have taken a fair bit of time to make properly. One way I am controlling expenses is by using a completely stock engine & gearbox with the donor car ECU and instruments. Biggest challenge there will be to make the instrument cluster look decent. I've been down the rabbit hole of aftermarket ECU and engine tuning often enough to not do it this time - its expensive. I am also resisting the urge to mess with the engine. It doesn't need it. I drove the engine donor 200 miles when I bought it and know the engine is sound. You can throw a lot of money at an engine needlessly if you aren't careful (I've done that often enough). The trick is knowing when to leave well alone or when you need to dig in to save future problems. Just do the basic service items like cam belts, water pump etc and any other things that the donor is known for and leave it at that. Yes, it feels great to totally strip the engine, replace everything and do a full rebuild but so often they just don't need it these days.
Just my opinion of course, others will no doubt disagree and have equally valid views.
Good luck with whatever you decide though.
£10k is probably a good budget for a seven with a modern engine these days.
As said MeV is a good place to start, mnr do a seven style car with an mx5 for a donor or look at the Sylva j17 if you want the 60's styling. I would have said the MeV replicar but this kit is currently up for sale.
Note, I would set aside about £1k just to get the car IVA tested and registered, money for test, transport to test, retest is likely including transport and then road fund.
If you are interested in learning then I would buy a late mk2 mx5 (six speed box and lsd), probably cost £1.5k, get it mechanically sound and then use this as a donor for a kit.
Get yourself to stoneleigh on the next bank holiday, see the cars, talk to the manufacturers and talk to owners.
As said MeV is a good place to start, mnr do a seven style car with an mx5 for a donor or look at the Sylva j17 if you want the 60's styling. I would have said the MeV replicar but this kit is currently up for sale.
Note, I would set aside about £1k just to get the car IVA tested and registered, money for test, transport to test, retest is likely including transport and then road fund.
If you are interested in learning then I would buy a late mk2 mx5 (six speed box and lsd), probably cost £1.5k, get it mechanically sound and then use this as a donor for a kit.
Get yourself to stoneleigh on the next bank holiday, see the cars, talk to the manufacturers and talk to owners.
I would say that costing things out is a major part of automotive engineering therefore it would be a useful project to research a Cobra build properly.
All the information is out there and easily available, starting out by listing each and every component you will need and the cost.
I did this years ago and decided it was not a viable use of my time and money when a desirable production car could be had for less.
It also depends if you have the room and resources to strip, clean, store and refurbish the components as you collect them.
A car in pieces takes up a surprising amount of space and space can be hard to find and expensive.
The price of wheels, tyres, shocks/springs, seats, trim, cooling system, instruments and paint will make a big hole in your budget before the cost of buying, collecting and refurbishing a drive train.
I don't want to put you off as restoring or building cars can be hugely rewarding and character building, the experience and skills you gain will stand you in good stead but it's just not something that can be done on a limited budget.
All the information is out there and easily available, starting out by listing each and every component you will need and the cost.
I did this years ago and decided it was not a viable use of my time and money when a desirable production car could be had for less.
It also depends if you have the room and resources to strip, clean, store and refurbish the components as you collect them.
A car in pieces takes up a surprising amount of space and space can be hard to find and expensive.
The price of wheels, tyres, shocks/springs, seats, trim, cooling system, instruments and paint will make a big hole in your budget before the cost of buying, collecting and refurbishing a drive train.
I don't want to put you off as restoring or building cars can be hugely rewarding and character building, the experience and skills you gain will stand you in good stead but it's just not something that can be done on a limited budget.
You might get there with an abandoned project. That way someone else has had the financial hit, but you inherit his problems. You have to ask why so many of these things are abandoned. I remember a mate 20 years ago, built a Dakar, a Mad Max style kit using a Range Rover. He'd not gone mad, one donor, no shiny bits. Estimated £10k to get it on the road and it still had work to do, things like springs that were too heavy for a light vehicle. At that time Chevrolet engine ones with all the shiny bits could be bought for 6k.
Thanks for all the replys. A lot to think about.
It makes a lot of sense to forget the Cobra for now - as mentioned spending over 10K and then not being happy with the finished product isn't a good idea. I like the idea of planning a Cobra build and costing etc. This, as you have said, is a crucial part to the process (although maybe not the most exciting) and I'll be able to learn a lot through it without spending - a win-win.
I will look into the other kits mentioned and see what the most suitable option is for me.
I do need to go to the kit car show. A gold mine mine of people with experience and advice. It's a shame it falls close to exams - always good to have breaks though and it won't matter for much longer!
Thanks all for your time.
Dan
It makes a lot of sense to forget the Cobra for now - as mentioned spending over 10K and then not being happy with the finished product isn't a good idea. I like the idea of planning a Cobra build and costing etc. This, as you have said, is a crucial part to the process (although maybe not the most exciting) and I'll be able to learn a lot through it without spending - a win-win.
I will look into the other kits mentioned and see what the most suitable option is for me.
I do need to go to the kit car show. A gold mine mine of people with experience and advice. It's a shame it falls close to exams - always good to have breaks though and it won't matter for much longer!
Thanks all for your time.
Dan
Edited by danharrison56 on Tuesday 18th April 09:25
Just be aware that you'll never be able to estimate costs accurately if you've not done one before, (or quite possibly even if you have!)
There are so many little bits you'll find, and it's those which all add up. The big ticket things like engine, gearbox etc are easy but only half the story, or less. You might easily spend, for example, a couple of hundred quid on fasteners over a whole build, but who thinks of that?
Double any estimate you come up with and you'll probably be close.
There are so many little bits you'll find, and it's those which all add up. The big ticket things like engine, gearbox etc are easy but only half the story, or less. You might easily spend, for example, a couple of hundred quid on fasteners over a whole build, but who thinks of that?
Double any estimate you come up with and you'll probably be close.
If you haven't found it yet there is a list of uk kit cars on here, listed by type -
https://www.totalkitcar.com/uk/uk-x-ref/
There is also a list by donor and alphabetical under the "uk" tab.
Of the cobra kits listed the cobretti is probably the most affordable but not sure they are still in production, sure someone on here can confirm.
There is a guy on eBay selling affordable chassis and bodies, no idea of quality or service and looks like you will have to work out all of the other bits yourself.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AC-Cobra-289-Race-Bodysh...
You first choice would be donor, most are jag xj based, but some of the cheaper kits (pilgrim for example) may be Sierra or Granada.
Next is engine - personally it has to be a v8, these start at the rover v8 and then go through Chevy 350 to ford 302 and then onto Chevy ls or ford coyote. You could blow all of your budget on the engine alone, other cheaper alternatives may be a jag v8, BMW v8 or possibly the Lexus v8. Remember if the engine is post 1995 it will need injection and a cats to pass IVA which means either working out how the OEM stuff can be made to work or approx £1k of ecu, wiring and setup. Choosing an underbody exhaust may also save a bit, I think this suits the 289 cobra well.
As you are researching it is worth reading the Iva manual. One area that will apply to a new cobra build is the need for headrests, not usually used on this type of car.
You can cut down cost by omitting the bright work and using OEM wheels, may look a bit odd but will get you on the road.
The cobra is a fairly ambitious first kit and needs to be done well to be worth while (read high cost with good parts, v8 and a paint job). Sevens are the usual starting point but also included in this are the MeV exo cars and the Sylva full body cars (fury, j15/16/17, Phoenix, stylus) but I would also add the spire gtr radical style car to the list. Most of these have a price of around £6k for a chassis and bodywork kit leaving you to source the donor, engine, gearbox, diff, interior and electrics. So, you can see that £10k can be spent fairly easily. Single donor kits are worth a look, usually mx5 based.
https://www.totalkitcar.com/uk/uk-x-ref/
There is also a list by donor and alphabetical under the "uk" tab.
Of the cobra kits listed the cobretti is probably the most affordable but not sure they are still in production, sure someone on here can confirm.
There is a guy on eBay selling affordable chassis and bodies, no idea of quality or service and looks like you will have to work out all of the other bits yourself.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AC-Cobra-289-Race-Bodysh...
You first choice would be donor, most are jag xj based, but some of the cheaper kits (pilgrim for example) may be Sierra or Granada.
Next is engine - personally it has to be a v8, these start at the rover v8 and then go through Chevy 350 to ford 302 and then onto Chevy ls or ford coyote. You could blow all of your budget on the engine alone, other cheaper alternatives may be a jag v8, BMW v8 or possibly the Lexus v8. Remember if the engine is post 1995 it will need injection and a cats to pass IVA which means either working out how the OEM stuff can be made to work or approx £1k of ecu, wiring and setup. Choosing an underbody exhaust may also save a bit, I think this suits the 289 cobra well.
As you are researching it is worth reading the Iva manual. One area that will apply to a new cobra build is the need for headrests, not usually used on this type of car.
You can cut down cost by omitting the bright work and using OEM wheels, may look a bit odd but will get you on the road.
The cobra is a fairly ambitious first kit and needs to be done well to be worth while (read high cost with good parts, v8 and a paint job). Sevens are the usual starting point but also included in this are the MeV exo cars and the Sylva full body cars (fury, j15/16/17, Phoenix, stylus) but I would also add the spire gtr radical style car to the list. Most of these have a price of around £6k for a chassis and bodywork kit leaving you to source the donor, engine, gearbox, diff, interior and electrics. So, you can see that £10k can be spent fairly easily. Single donor kits are worth a look, usually mx5 based.
danharrison56 said:
Thanks for all the replys. A lot to think about.
It makes a lot of sense to forget the Cobra for now - as mentioned spending over 10K and then not being happy with the finished product isn't a good idea. I like the idea of planning a Cobra build and costing etc. This, as you have said, is a crucial part to the process (although maybe not the most exciting) and I'll be able to learn a lot through it without spending - a win-win.
I will look into the other kits mentioned and see what the most suitable option is for me.
I do need to go to the kit car show. A gold mine mine of people with experience and advice. It's a shame it falls close to exams - always good to have breaks though and it won't matter for much longer!
Thanks all for your time.
Dan
If the weather is nice I might be there on the Sunday in my turbocharged 5.7 Dakar at the dakar club stand in the field.It makes a lot of sense to forget the Cobra for now - as mentioned spending over 10K and then not being happy with the finished product isn't a good idea. I like the idea of planning a Cobra build and costing etc. This, as you have said, is a crucial part to the process (although maybe not the most exciting) and I'll be able to learn a lot through it without spending - a win-win.
I will look into the other kits mentioned and see what the most suitable option is for me.
I do need to go to the kit car show. A gold mine mine of people with experience and advice. It's a shame it falls close to exams - always good to have breaks though and it won't matter for much longer!
Thanks all for your time.
Dan
Edited by danharrison56 on Tuesday 18th April 09:25
Not sure how much the Sylva J17 is but I'd be confident of making a decent J15/16/17 for that money. Before Jeremy sold the company IIRC the J16 kit which uses the MGF rear frame was £4K with the Ford version being £5k. If it were me I'd get the J15 or the J17 MGF single donor version.
Or a Midlana with whatever engine you fancy.
Personally I've been fantasising about designing my own midi chassis and wrapping it in my own retro bodywork. Have the space and access to welding/fab equipment and from May I'll have loads of time in the evenings for messing about.
Or a Midlana with whatever engine you fancy.
Personally I've been fantasising about designing my own midi chassis and wrapping it in my own retro bodywork. Have the space and access to welding/fab equipment and from May I'll have loads of time in the evenings for messing about.
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