Westie 1600 (or 1800)
Discussion
Anyone got the specs for a pre-lit Westfield 1600 (roughly speaking), say something fairly standard with a couple of webbers ? (bhp, 0-60, vMax)
I was looking for a cheap (5k) 1800 preferably (as a track toy), but there's a few nice 1600's around at the moment ..... I was wondering how much of a difference there would be between a 1600 and 1800.
Also, do Cater-field type cars come up a lot cheaper over winter ?
I was looking for a cheap (5k) 1800 preferably (as a track toy), but there's a few nice 1600's around at the moment ..... I was wondering how much of a difference there would be between a 1600 and 1800.
Also, do Cater-field type cars come up a lot cheaper over winter ?
a 1600 xflow with twin webers on 40's should get.....
120 bhp
0-60 mph in about 5.5 seconds
120 mph max
there do come down in price over the winter, especially november to december time. i think the 1800cc's are zetec engined cars and so are a little bit more expensive. if you are prepared to hunt around you can pick a xflow up for as low as £3000!.
as far as differences go, the zetec lump is fuel injected and would probably be a little quicker. i imagine response to improve too though you would lose that lovely xflow exhaust note!
>> Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 23 August 14:49
120 bhp
0-60 mph in about 5.5 seconds
120 mph max
there do come down in price over the winter, especially november to december time. i think the 1800cc's are zetec engined cars and so are a little bit more expensive. if you are prepared to hunt around you can pick a xflow up for as low as £3000!.
as far as differences go, the zetec lump is fuel injected and would probably be a little quicker. i imagine response to improve too though you would lose that lovely xflow exhaust note!
>> Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 23 August 14:49
Pablo - thanks for the info/thoughts. Most of the cars I see tend to be late 4's to 5k starting price. I did see one at 3.5 last week, but it was, um, ropy looking from the photo.
NDT - I think you and I are thinking along the same lines. I dont have 10k or more to blow on a newer / faster model, so I was thinking along the lines of 4 or 5k to give me something that would be fun on the track (that's all I want it for) for the moment. That would also give me time to rebuild or procure a faster / better engine (I've always wanted to rebuild an engine from scratch anyway) which I could slot in at a future date.
Anyone gone down this route ?
The only thing I'm not sure of is, how much has the suspension system changed recently .... as well as getting a slower engine for my 5k, am I likely to get a poorer handling car (which wouldn't be up to putting a 150 or 160bhp lump in it)
Thanks
NDT - I think you and I are thinking along the same lines. I dont have 10k or more to blow on a newer / faster model, so I was thinking along the lines of 4 or 5k to give me something that would be fun on the track (that's all I want it for) for the moment. That would also give me time to rebuild or procure a faster / better engine (I've always wanted to rebuild an engine from scratch anyway) which I could slot in at a future date.
Anyone gone down this route ?
The only thing I'm not sure of is, how much has the suspension system changed recently .... as well as getting a slower engine for my 5k, am I likely to get a poorer handling car (which wouldn't be up to putting a 150 or 160bhp lump in it)
Thanks
having friends with westfields in various states of re build i would always say go for the cheapest you can find and then upgrade it to your own spec. a friend started with a 1300 xflow and has changed engines a number of times and modified suspension/steering to suit accordingly. the beauty of the cars is how easy they are to work on. go for it, get an affordable car to begin with and then upgrade it.
Engines, may as well do them all while I'm in the mood.
All IMO but here's my thoughts:
X-Flow 1600/1700cc - Leaky old lump. Light, cheap and a doddle to work on. But very old tech. Expect around 110bhp from a 1700cc XF in mild tune on 40's. All steel engines can go quite high in power but will be expensive and require frequent rebuilds.
Contacts: Burton are the biggy with X-Flows. But there are lots and lots of other people who do them.
Pinto 2000cc - Heavier but it makes up for it in torque. Expect 150bhp from a well set up one on 45's. Once again, throw some money at it and you'll see 190bhp but with all the baggage that comes with a race engine.
Contacts: Same applies as with the X-Flow.
Vauxhall 2000cc XE - The first engine I would aim for. Much more reasonable in price these days with donor lumps available for £500. Fit 45's and strengthend bolts from the likes of SBD and you're looking at 180bhp stock and a good dollop of torque to go with it. A VERY strong engine that is pretty much bullet proof in standard form. It can be taken to 220bhp reletively easily with nigh on 290bhp available to those with very deep pockets. Designed and built for Vauxhall by Cosworth. A top engine.
Contacts: SBD are big with Vauxhalls. Those with very deep pockets go to Swindon who build touring car engines.
Zetec 1800/2000cc - Older cars tend to be on carbs with newer ones on throttle bodies. 1800cc will see around 145bhp boggo and the 2000cc around 165bhp. Both can be very easily increased to around a sensible maximum of 180bhp and 200bhp repectively (will obviously go higher if you go steel). A good solid, cheap engine. Though not quite as tunable or as strong as the Vx. Go for the 2000cc wherever possible.
Contacts: Dunnell and Raceline are the specialists. Burton also do bits.
Rover K-Series - Available in 1400, 1600, 1800, 1800vvc and 1800 VHPD. A very light all alloy engine that likes it's revs and requires proper looking after (usage of anything other than Comma Coldstream coolant additive and Mobil 1 oil not recommended). Lots of options on the engines though. A boggo 1600 is just over 100bhp IIRC. A Caterham Supersport spec 1600 gives 130bhp. Boggo 1800 gives 118bhp and can easily and safey be taken to 145ish. A vvc gives 150bhp and you're pretty much stuck with that as if you want to tune it you need to junk all the vvc bits and build it as a VHPD. Finally the VHPD which is 175bhp biggo and is often upped to 190bhp. Minister will take it to 240bhp for the princely sum of £12000. Not a particulaly cheap engine to tune £/bhp-wise...
Contacts: Power Train Projects. The main supplier for Rover lumps. QED for tuning bits.
1600 CVH - Old XR2 engine. Which is where it should have stayed.
Toyota 4AGE 1600cc - Light and powerfull. If you can make it fit you can also get it with a supercharger. I don't know much about them but their owners swear by them. Good value too.
Contacts: RAW engineering.
Now we start getting a bit expensive...
Cosworth YB - Based on the Pinto block and found turbo'd in Sierra Cosworths, the YB is a very good powerplant. Not recommended in turbo form for a Caterfield as they are just too vicious. Normally aspirated they are a very good powerplant. However due to the very high costs of converting one to N/A they are very rare and generally quite expensive (bits are more expensive too, mainly due to the Cosworth badge). Similar in wieght to an Vx XE they are similaly bullet proof in build and are capable of quite silly power levels. Expect around 200bhp from a mildly tuned one, 250bhp for a pretty cooking one and up to 300bhp for a 2400cc race monster.
Contacts: Wilcox Race Engines.
Vauxhall 1600 XE - Found in the old Corsa GSi IIRC. Very light, very strong and capable of suprising levels of power. Boggo they're around 150bhp on thottle bodies. Bits aren't cheap though for tuning as pretty much only SBD do them. Currently I only know of three cars that run this engine. One with 185 bhp, one built by SBD for a customer at around 220bhp IIRC and the SBD race car at an astonishing 265bhp. Scary stuff when you consider they're considering taking it to 1700cc to see how much more is available!
Contacts: SBD are pretty much the only people doing these
Ford Duratec 2000cc 4pot (not the V6) - Very expensive at the moment as this is such a modern engine. Can see it becoming a future classic though. 190bhp boggo on TB's, lighter than a K series and seemingly very strong. A modern day Vx XE if you like. Raceline are quoting power outputs of anything up to 285bhp. A very serious engine.
Contacts: Raceline definately do them and I believe Dunnell are now dabbling with these.
Honda S2000 - Suprisingly good value at the moment and available with a cracking 6 speed geabox for around £2500. Very, very silly power available boggo. By boggo I really mean it as well, standard induction system but on a DTA ecu giving 240bhp. Only the insane would take it higher but it will go to 300bhp staying normally aspirated. Hidden costs would be the fact that you'll have to make your own engine mounts, prop, modify the chassis for it to fit, fettle the gear linkage, etc. Worth it though. Only one such car exists at the moment (a Westfield) and it is quite barkingly mad with R500 levels of performance at about a third or the price.
Contacts: If you're insane enough to want to tune it I suppose you're stuck with the likes of Mugen and Spoon.
In my opinion you'd be better off biding your time and saving up a little more money for a 2.0XE powered car or a decent Zetec. The X-flow will probably be fine initially but inevitably you'll want more power and the best way to get it is to transplant a Zetec or a XE which will cost a significant amount (transplants are a lot more expensive to do than you'd think). Value-wise, little can touch the VX with the 2000cc Zetec coming a close second.
The Pinto is getting a little long in the tooth and you'll hit the same issues you will with the X-Flow. But further complications will be added in that the exhaust exits the drivers side of the car which will cause hassle for transplantage (unless you go for a YB, Honda or Duratec that are all prohibitively expensive).
The K is a hateful engine. They are tuneable but at significant cost. They're best left boggo or as close to boggo as possible to keep them as reliable as possible. Basically the engines greatest asset, it's light wieght, is offset by it's fragility.
The Toyota is probably a very good unit and definately worth a look.
All the others are probably too expensive to be an option.
As for cars. Good Zetec/XE Westfields tend to start at around £7500. A very good X-Flow or Pinto around £5000. Don't rule out the Sylva Striker either. It's a top car and they can be had for quite a bit less than a Westy.
Hope that helps,
Good luck.
>> Edited by juansolo on Sunday 25th August 12:41
All IMO but here's my thoughts:
X-Flow 1600/1700cc - Leaky old lump. Light, cheap and a doddle to work on. But very old tech. Expect around 110bhp from a 1700cc XF in mild tune on 40's. All steel engines can go quite high in power but will be expensive and require frequent rebuilds.
Contacts: Burton are the biggy with X-Flows. But there are lots and lots of other people who do them.
Pinto 2000cc - Heavier but it makes up for it in torque. Expect 150bhp from a well set up one on 45's. Once again, throw some money at it and you'll see 190bhp but with all the baggage that comes with a race engine.
Contacts: Same applies as with the X-Flow.
Vauxhall 2000cc XE - The first engine I would aim for. Much more reasonable in price these days with donor lumps available for £500. Fit 45's and strengthend bolts from the likes of SBD and you're looking at 180bhp stock and a good dollop of torque to go with it. A VERY strong engine that is pretty much bullet proof in standard form. It can be taken to 220bhp reletively easily with nigh on 290bhp available to those with very deep pockets. Designed and built for Vauxhall by Cosworth. A top engine.
Contacts: SBD are big with Vauxhalls. Those with very deep pockets go to Swindon who build touring car engines.
Zetec 1800/2000cc - Older cars tend to be on carbs with newer ones on throttle bodies. 1800cc will see around 145bhp boggo and the 2000cc around 165bhp. Both can be very easily increased to around a sensible maximum of 180bhp and 200bhp repectively (will obviously go higher if you go steel). A good solid, cheap engine. Though not quite as tunable or as strong as the Vx. Go for the 2000cc wherever possible.
Contacts: Dunnell and Raceline are the specialists. Burton also do bits.
Rover K-Series - Available in 1400, 1600, 1800, 1800vvc and 1800 VHPD. A very light all alloy engine that likes it's revs and requires proper looking after (usage of anything other than Comma Coldstream coolant additive and Mobil 1 oil not recommended). Lots of options on the engines though. A boggo 1600 is just over 100bhp IIRC. A Caterham Supersport spec 1600 gives 130bhp. Boggo 1800 gives 118bhp and can easily and safey be taken to 145ish. A vvc gives 150bhp and you're pretty much stuck with that as if you want to tune it you need to junk all the vvc bits and build it as a VHPD. Finally the VHPD which is 175bhp biggo and is often upped to 190bhp. Minister will take it to 240bhp for the princely sum of £12000. Not a particulaly cheap engine to tune £/bhp-wise...
Contacts: Power Train Projects. The main supplier for Rover lumps. QED for tuning bits.
1600 CVH - Old XR2 engine. Which is where it should have stayed.
Toyota 4AGE 1600cc - Light and powerfull. If you can make it fit you can also get it with a supercharger. I don't know much about them but their owners swear by them. Good value too.
Contacts: RAW engineering.
Now we start getting a bit expensive...
Cosworth YB - Based on the Pinto block and found turbo'd in Sierra Cosworths, the YB is a very good powerplant. Not recommended in turbo form for a Caterfield as they are just too vicious. Normally aspirated they are a very good powerplant. However due to the very high costs of converting one to N/A they are very rare and generally quite expensive (bits are more expensive too, mainly due to the Cosworth badge). Similar in wieght to an Vx XE they are similaly bullet proof in build and are capable of quite silly power levels. Expect around 200bhp from a mildly tuned one, 250bhp for a pretty cooking one and up to 300bhp for a 2400cc race monster.
Contacts: Wilcox Race Engines.
Vauxhall 1600 XE - Found in the old Corsa GSi IIRC. Very light, very strong and capable of suprising levels of power. Boggo they're around 150bhp on thottle bodies. Bits aren't cheap though for tuning as pretty much only SBD do them. Currently I only know of three cars that run this engine. One with 185 bhp, one built by SBD for a customer at around 220bhp IIRC and the SBD race car at an astonishing 265bhp. Scary stuff when you consider they're considering taking it to 1700cc to see how much more is available!
Contacts: SBD are pretty much the only people doing these
Ford Duratec 2000cc 4pot (not the V6) - Very expensive at the moment as this is such a modern engine. Can see it becoming a future classic though. 190bhp boggo on TB's, lighter than a K series and seemingly very strong. A modern day Vx XE if you like. Raceline are quoting power outputs of anything up to 285bhp. A very serious engine.
Contacts: Raceline definately do them and I believe Dunnell are now dabbling with these.
Honda S2000 - Suprisingly good value at the moment and available with a cracking 6 speed geabox for around £2500. Very, very silly power available boggo. By boggo I really mean it as well, standard induction system but on a DTA ecu giving 240bhp. Only the insane would take it higher but it will go to 300bhp staying normally aspirated. Hidden costs would be the fact that you'll have to make your own engine mounts, prop, modify the chassis for it to fit, fettle the gear linkage, etc. Worth it though. Only one such car exists at the moment (a Westfield) and it is quite barkingly mad with R500 levels of performance at about a third or the price.
Contacts: If you're insane enough to want to tune it I suppose you're stuck with the likes of Mugen and Spoon.
In my opinion you'd be better off biding your time and saving up a little more money for a 2.0XE powered car or a decent Zetec. The X-flow will probably be fine initially but inevitably you'll want more power and the best way to get it is to transplant a Zetec or a XE which will cost a significant amount (transplants are a lot more expensive to do than you'd think). Value-wise, little can touch the VX with the 2000cc Zetec coming a close second.
The Pinto is getting a little long in the tooth and you'll hit the same issues you will with the X-Flow. But further complications will be added in that the exhaust exits the drivers side of the car which will cause hassle for transplantage (unless you go for a YB, Honda or Duratec that are all prohibitively expensive).
The K is a hateful engine. They are tuneable but at significant cost. They're best left boggo or as close to boggo as possible to keep them as reliable as possible. Basically the engines greatest asset, it's light wieght, is offset by it's fragility.
The Toyota is probably a very good unit and definately worth a look.
All the others are probably too expensive to be an option.
As for cars. Good Zetec/XE Westfields tend to start at around £7500. A very good X-Flow or Pinto around £5000. Don't rule out the Sylva Striker either. It's a top car and they can be had for quite a bit less than a Westy.
Hope that helps,
Good luck.
>> Edited by juansolo on Sunday 25th August 12:41
Wow juansolo ! Epic (and very thorough) reply !
Very interesting read, and exactly what I was after (I must admit, I didn't really know my pinto from my kent from my x-flow ...)
I see your point about saving up a bit more and spending 8k (say) instead of 5k. I guess that comes down to, do I want to get one this autumn (get a couple of events in before winter, plus start again in spring) .... or can I wait until this time next year-ish when I've got another 3k kicking round.
I suppose the only advantages to getting a 5k "poor" engine car now would be a) I've always wanted to rebuild an engine and b) I could spend that 2.5k to 3k on a replacement engine/box over the forthcoming year.
That's a point actually .... presumably when replacing the engine I'd have to replace the box too .... does that cause problems with prop shafts and things like speedo cables ?
Secondly, are the engine mounts on something like a Westfield or Sylvia replacable (bolt on, a la GT6) or are they integral to the whole chassis (and if the latter, what do you do ?)
Very interesting read, and exactly what I was after (I must admit, I didn't really know my pinto from my kent from my x-flow ...)
I see your point about saving up a bit more and spending 8k (say) instead of 5k. I guess that comes down to, do I want to get one this autumn (get a couple of events in before winter, plus start again in spring) .... or can I wait until this time next year-ish when I've got another 3k kicking round.
I suppose the only advantages to getting a 5k "poor" engine car now would be a) I've always wanted to rebuild an engine and b) I could spend that 2.5k to 3k on a replacement engine/box over the forthcoming year.
That's a point actually .... presumably when replacing the engine I'd have to replace the box too .... does that cause problems with prop shafts and things like speedo cables ?
Secondly, are the engine mounts on something like a Westfield or Sylvia replacable (bolt on, a la GT6) or are they integral to the whole chassis (and if the latter, what do you do ?)
Engine replacements.
Box replacement depends on the box it has in there to start with. Try and get a car with a Ford Type9 gearbox (either 4 or 5 speed) as nearly all the engines I mentioned before will mate to these with an appropriate bell housing. Also there are far more options available regarding gear kits for them from the likes of Quaife, Tran-X and BGH. Definately the gearbox of choice.
Generally engine transplants cost a lot more than you think as on top of the price of your engine you have:
Exhaust
Carbs & a decent 3D ignition or TB's and ECU
If you go for TB's you will have to uprate/replace your entire fuel system including the tank
A decent sump so you don't get oil surge when it's mounted in a RWD configuration.
It's likely you'll need a different alternator or other ancilleries from standard to fit into a Westie chassis.
Bell housing
Engine mounts (they are replaceable on mine so I suspect this is the norm)
...and that's all I can think of off the top of my head. Expect to be out of action for about a year if you are doing this yourself as you effectively end up doing a chassis up rebuild. You'll also find yourself doing jobs that are convenient while the car is in bits that also drive the price up...
It's better waiting that bit longer and getting one that's already been done for you as I guarentee when you do buy one you'll start changing it anyhow. LSD, straight cut gear box, uprated brakes, quick racks, bucket seats... They all lead to the dark side and you will start to desire them and indeed *need* them Also these cars are very high maintenance if you plan on tracking them a lot. Which can be fun in itself.
As for building an engine. I'd love to do this myself. However after recently lunching my Cosworth I found it much easier and quicker to get someone else to do the work for me as the longer I spend not driving the car, the more upset I get.
Have a click here to see what I've done with mine over the year I've owned it. I new little more than the basics of car mechanics when I got it and have picked up tonnes since as we have done all the work on the car ourselves (up until the engine lunching).
We also have another: Click here This one is my brothers and other than basic maintenance most of the work has been carried out on it by specialists for reasons mentioned in the text.
Should give you an idea of what you can get if you're prepared to wait for the right car and the sort of maintenance required. Mine is a very track oriented car and as such is pretty unpleasant on the road. My brothers however is being built to run on the road also so will be a lot less extreme.
>> Edited by juansolo on Monday 26th August 10:02
>> Edited by juansolo on Monday 26th August 10:21
Box replacement depends on the box it has in there to start with. Try and get a car with a Ford Type9 gearbox (either 4 or 5 speed) as nearly all the engines I mentioned before will mate to these with an appropriate bell housing. Also there are far more options available regarding gear kits for them from the likes of Quaife, Tran-X and BGH. Definately the gearbox of choice.
Generally engine transplants cost a lot more than you think as on top of the price of your engine you have:
Exhaust
Carbs & a decent 3D ignition or TB's and ECU
If you go for TB's you will have to uprate/replace your entire fuel system including the tank
A decent sump so you don't get oil surge when it's mounted in a RWD configuration.
It's likely you'll need a different alternator or other ancilleries from standard to fit into a Westie chassis.
Bell housing
Engine mounts (they are replaceable on mine so I suspect this is the norm)
...and that's all I can think of off the top of my head. Expect to be out of action for about a year if you are doing this yourself as you effectively end up doing a chassis up rebuild. You'll also find yourself doing jobs that are convenient while the car is in bits that also drive the price up...
It's better waiting that bit longer and getting one that's already been done for you as I guarentee when you do buy one you'll start changing it anyhow. LSD, straight cut gear box, uprated brakes, quick racks, bucket seats... They all lead to the dark side and you will start to desire them and indeed *need* them
Also these cars are very high maintenance if you plan on tracking them a lot. Which can be fun in itself. As for building an engine. I'd love to do this myself. However after recently lunching my Cosworth I found it much easier and quicker to get someone else to do the work for me as the longer I spend not driving the car, the more upset I get.
Have a click here to see what I've done with mine over the year I've owned it. I new little more than the basics of car mechanics when I got it and have picked up tonnes since as we have done all the work on the car ourselves (up until the engine lunching).
We also have another: Click here This one is my brothers and other than basic maintenance most of the work has been carried out on it by specialists for reasons mentioned in the text.
Should give you an idea of what you can get if you're prepared to wait for the right car and the sort of maintenance required. Mine is a very track oriented car and as such is pretty unpleasant on the road. My brothers however is being built to run on the road also so will be a lot less extreme.
>> Edited by juansolo on Monday 26th August 10:02
>> Edited by juansolo on Monday 26th August 10:21
The number signifies the size of the throttle bore on carbs and throttle bodies. Much more than that I can't tell you as I don't unserstand it all much myself. It sort of works like this: Less than 1800cc - 40's, 1800-2000cc - 45's, 2000cc + 48's. However when you start tuning you engine you might use bigger carbs/TB's so you will finds tuned 1800's on 45's, 2000's on 48's and 2000+ on 50's.
When it comes to stuff like this you are better off talking to the guys on The Se7ens.net mailing list which is a cracking place for technical info regarding all types of seven kits. It's also a lot more impatial than some of the other one make forums.
When it comes to stuff like this you are better off talking to the guys on The Se7ens.net mailing list which is a cracking place for technical info regarding all types of seven kits. It's also a lot more impatial than some of the other one make forums.
As theboymoon says, top notch info juansolo 
Have read through the (lengthy !) info on your car. Tell me, did all those mods kill your insurance, of have they been reasonable about the mods ? Who are you with ?
Got to admit, I'm suprised that you can get a Westie with a Cosworth engine for 9k .... opened my eyes !
Have read through the (lengthy !) info on your car. Tell me, did all those mods kill your insurance, of have they been reasonable about the mods ? Who are you with ?
Got to admit, I'm suprised that you can get a Westie with a Cosworth engine for 9k .... opened my eyes !
Tell me, did all those mods kill your insurance, of have they been reasonable about the mods ? Who are you with ?
It's a kit car and as such there is no such thing as a standard spec. Try and insure it via the usual Direct Line type places and you get some comical quotes as in there terms it's probably a grp20 + mucho loading.
You really need to go to a specialist insurer that understands these cars. MSM, Adrian Flux, Osbournes (who I'm with), Footman James and a few others. They will ask you about your car and it's spec and you'll be suprised at just how cheap these things are to insure. Mine for example costs me £300 (milage limited). This is beacuse they are so cheap to fix if you bend them and the type of people who run these cars tend to fix them themselves so claims are pretty rare.
Got to admit, I'm suprised that you can get a Westie with a Cosworth engine for 9k .... opened my eyes !
You have to be prepared to wait... and wait... and wait for the right car to come along. Don't rush into it. Also with all the cash I've spent on it the actual figure is more in the line of £12k. Soon to rise dramatically after this rebuild.
Be careful what you go for. A tidy Westie setup for the road won't neccessarily be a great track car and you may end up spending a lot more money getting it how you want it to be (this is something my brother has come to realise). Conversley a great track car might be too raw to be any fun on the road. Decide what your main use of the car is going to be and aim for a spec to suit. It's likely that road Westies will be a lot prettier on the surface yet you find you end up chucking a lot of that away if you are wanting it as a track car. Also it's likely to lack some of the nice kit that people fit for track use like LSD, S/C C/R gearbox, quick racks, big brakes, RAC bar, etc. All of which can be quite expensive to add later.
It's a kit car and as such there is no such thing as a standard spec. Try and insure it via the usual Direct Line type places and you get some comical quotes as in there terms it's probably a grp20 + mucho loading.
You really need to go to a specialist insurer that understands these cars. MSM, Adrian Flux, Osbournes (who I'm with), Footman James and a few others. They will ask you about your car and it's spec and you'll be suprised at just how cheap these things are to insure. Mine for example costs me £300 (milage limited). This is beacuse they are so cheap to fix if you bend them and the type of people who run these cars tend to fix them themselves so claims are pretty rare.
Got to admit, I'm suprised that you can get a Westie with a Cosworth engine for 9k .... opened my eyes !
You have to be prepared to wait... and wait... and wait for the right car to come along. Don't rush into it. Also with all the cash I've spent on it the actual figure is more in the line of £12k. Soon to rise dramatically after this rebuild.
Be careful what you go for. A tidy Westie setup for the road won't neccessarily be a great track car and you may end up spending a lot more money getting it how you want it to be (this is something my brother has come to realise). Conversley a great track car might be too raw to be any fun on the road. Decide what your main use of the car is going to be and aim for a spec to suit. It's likely that road Westies will be a lot prettier on the surface yet you find you end up chucking a lot of that away if you are wanting it as a track car. Also it's likely to lack some of the nice kit that people fit for track use like LSD, S/C C/R gearbox, quick racks, big brakes, RAC bar, etc. All of which can be quite expensive to add later.
So what do you think of the westfield seights?
I sold my 993TT this year, and are looking to replace it later this year with a lotus 7 derivative.
I'm basically looking at a westi or caterham. I really fancy a V8 as I've never had one before. I'll be using it as a weekend road car with about 3-5 track days a year. I had an elise before the porker and would like to get back to basics so to speak.
Whats you impression of the v8 cars, or am I better to sick with the light 4 pots?
I sold my 993TT this year, and are looking to replace it later this year with a lotus 7 derivative.
I'm basically looking at a westi or caterham. I really fancy a V8 as I've never had one before. I'll be using it as a weekend road car with about 3-5 track days a year. I had an elise before the porker and would like to get back to basics so to speak.
Whats you impression of the v8 cars, or am I better to sick with the light 4 pots?
SEiGHTS. Not my bag personally as they are a bit heavy (around 700kgs). This isn't the engine either as the Rover is all alloy and suprisingly light. It's actually not much heavier than the Vx or Cossie lumps. It's all the stuff that plugs into it is that drives the weight up.
They are more tourers than anything else... IYSWIM. Tonnes of torque but also mind bendingly fast when producing over, say 260bhp.
However that weight dents the handling to a degree and to me that's not the point of a 7-esque car. Saying that if weight was everything we'd all run bike engines which are the other end of the spectrum very high revving but with little torque and giving equally insane performance. In my opinion these really only belong on the track.
The 4-pot car engines comfortably sit in the middle of the two extremes offering the best of both worlds.
All IMO as there are plenty who swear by the big V8's and screaming BEC's. You've just got to find what suits you and go for it.
----
Oooh, just re-read your original post. Coming from an Elise to a Porker to a 7! Impressive! Well I can say that on track the 7 will be the most fun of the lot. But to be perfectly honest I think the Elise is the best allrounder as it is superb on the road and on the track. This doesn't of course take into account the stupidly high insurance costs or the repair costs if you ding it.
As a road biased track Westie I'd be looking at a IRS car. Standard or wide depends on you're personal dimensions and how comfy you want to be in the car.
Stick with the 4-pot engines, I'd be looking at a 2.0 Vx or a 2.0 Zetec on throttle bodies if possible (better economy, smoother).
Gearbox wise either go for a standard type-9 or one with BGH internals or better still a Tran-X with a straight cut 1st to 4th gears and a helical 5th for crusing. A straight cut Quaife will require ear plugs for log journeys as they are looooooud.
Try and get a Quaife ATB differential. These are silent and smooth in operation and top things. Otherwise go for a Sierra 4x4 LSD. Being a viscous diff these are pretty easy to live with also. Avoid a plate diffs as they whirr like mad and bang an clunk rediculously.
Try and get a car with a quick rack as the standard Escort rack is waaaaaay slow.
Always, and I mean always fit a decent roll over bar. The RAC bar that Westfield do is fine and is very good value. You only have one head, protect it. The number of Westies I see with the single bar astonishes me.
I believe in reducing unsprung weight so go for 13" wheels with 185x60 rubber. You really don't need any more unless you have really big bhp.
That's should get you looking in the right direction
>> Edited by juansolo on Tuesday 27th August 21:25
>> Edited by juansolo on Tuesday 27th August 21:27
They are more tourers than anything else... IYSWIM. Tonnes of torque but also mind bendingly fast when producing over, say 260bhp.
However that weight dents the handling to a degree and to me that's not the point of a 7-esque car. Saying that if weight was everything we'd all run bike engines which are the other end of the spectrum very high revving but with little torque and giving equally insane performance. In my opinion these really only belong on the track.
The 4-pot car engines comfortably sit in the middle of the two extremes offering the best of both worlds.
All IMO as there are plenty who swear by the big V8's and screaming BEC's. You've just got to find what suits you and go for it.
----
Oooh, just re-read your original post. Coming from an Elise to a Porker to a 7! Impressive! Well I can say that on track the 7 will be the most fun of the lot. But to be perfectly honest I think the Elise is the best allrounder as it is superb on the road and on the track. This doesn't of course take into account the stupidly high insurance costs or the repair costs if you ding it.
As a road biased track Westie I'd be looking at a IRS car. Standard or wide depends on you're personal dimensions and how comfy you want to be in the car.
Stick with the 4-pot engines, I'd be looking at a 2.0 Vx or a 2.0 Zetec on throttle bodies if possible (better economy, smoother).
Gearbox wise either go for a standard type-9 or one with BGH internals or better still a Tran-X with a straight cut 1st to 4th gears and a helical 5th for crusing. A straight cut Quaife will require ear plugs for log journeys as they are looooooud.
Try and get a Quaife ATB differential. These are silent and smooth in operation and top things. Otherwise go for a Sierra 4x4 LSD. Being a viscous diff these are pretty easy to live with also. Avoid a plate diffs as they whirr like mad and bang an clunk rediculously.
Try and get a car with a quick rack as the standard Escort rack is waaaaaay slow.
Always, and I mean always fit a decent roll over bar. The RAC bar that Westfield do is fine and is very good value. You only have one head, protect it. The number of Westies I see with the single bar astonishes me.
I believe in reducing unsprung weight so go for 13" wheels with 185x60 rubber. You really don't need any more unless you have really big bhp.
That's should get you looking in the right direction
>> Edited by juansolo on Tuesday 27th August 21:25
>> Edited by juansolo on Tuesday 27th August 21:27
Thanks for that. How much does the V8 effect the handling then? is it a lot? I do fancy a V8 and I want the sound track to go , as I'm sick of weak sounding cars (elise).
I suppose I need to try themn really to see how much of a difference it really makes.
I can understand how the v8's might go against the idea of 7's but its soo nice to have loads of torque on the road, like the turbo it'll be nice to have that sensation again.
Thanks again for you comments.
I suppose I need to try themn really to see how much of a difference it really makes.
I can understand how the v8's might go against the idea of 7's but its soo nice to have loads of torque on the road, like the turbo it'll be nice to have that sensation again.
Thanks again for you comments.
juansolo .... agree with you about proper roll cage, that photo of the rolled Westfield was frightening !!
Another question : consensus is that cycle wings are preferable to "swept" wings (the swept wings acting as, um, "wings" (!) at high speed). If I find a car which is perfect for my needs in every other respect but has swept (long) wings, is it an easy / cheap job to swap to cycle wings, or is it prohibitavely expensive ?
Another question : consensus is that cycle wings are preferable to "swept" wings (the swept wings acting as, um, "wings" (!) at high speed). If I find a car which is perfect for my needs in every other respect but has swept (long) wings, is it an easy / cheap job to swap to cycle wings, or is it prohibitavely expensive ?
Indeed the noise is addictive and it sells a lot of TVR's. But if you plan on doing a lot of trackdays it can prove to be a real pain in the arse as circuits are being forced into being a lot stricter with their compliance to the local councils noise regs.
I can have trouble with the PPE which runs just under 103db with a freshly packed Techcraft silencer. That's as quiet as it gets! V8's can be a lot louder, especially if it's a cooking one (and let face it, what's the point of one that isn't? I wouldn't consider one with less than 250bhp). So budget for a pair of Techcrafts or similar if you want to get it on track. A sad reflection of the times when you have to muffle machinery that sounds as glorious as this.
>> Edited by juansolo on Wednesday 28th August 11:57
I can have trouble with the PPE which runs just under 103db with a freshly packed Techcraft silencer. That's as quiet as it gets! V8's can be a lot louder, especially if it's a cooking one (and let face it, what's the point of one that isn't? I wouldn't consider one with less than 250bhp). So budget for a pair of Techcrafts or similar if you want to get it on track. A sad reflection of the times when you have to muffle machinery that sounds as glorious as this.
>> Edited by juansolo on Wednesday 28th August 11:57
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