3000-4000 POUND KITCARS
Discussion
Read the second issue of Totalkitcar Magazine and found it interesting, epecially the real build costs of kit cars.
Out of 180 kitcar manufacturers reported, I counted only 25 manufacturers that produced kits, with a do it yourself build cost range of 3000 to 4000 Pounds.
Most were Dune Buggies and a few other cars like a Locost, the Jester and mini based kits.
I guess this industry is catering more to the well off crowd than I've ever thought off, or there is something in these numbers that don't quite add up.
If this is the real situation, then a wide open market is available for a kit manufacture that can cater to this niche.
I'm under the impression that kitcars are becoming too expensive, and too close to production car prices, but without the technology to match these price.
More than kitcars , these are becoming expensive one-off cars, and not real kit cars, and for me that means affordable, fun motoring with a distictive and stylish body. ( well that is what I always thought of kicars..........).
What do you think of 150 or so kitcar manufacturers, creating kits that have an average build up costs of 8000 to 10000 £ with some exceeding 15 to 20000.
I can't call these kitcars.........................
Maybe some creative thinking is in order, and have kitcar manufacturers start making again, affordable kits for the many and not one-offs for the few.
What do you all think
Italo
Out of 180 kitcar manufacturers reported, I counted only 25 manufacturers that produced kits, with a do it yourself build cost range of 3000 to 4000 Pounds.
Most were Dune Buggies and a few other cars like a Locost, the Jester and mini based kits.
I guess this industry is catering more to the well off crowd than I've ever thought off, or there is something in these numbers that don't quite add up.
If this is the real situation, then a wide open market is available for a kit manufacture that can cater to this niche.
I'm under the impression that kitcars are becoming too expensive, and too close to production car prices, but without the technology to match these price.
More than kitcars , these are becoming expensive one-off cars, and not real kit cars, and for me that means affordable, fun motoring with a distictive and stylish body. ( well that is what I always thought of kicars..........).
What do you think of 150 or so kitcar manufacturers, creating kits that have an average build up costs of 8000 to 10000 £ with some exceeding 15 to 20000.
I can't call these kitcars.........................
Maybe some creative thinking is in order, and have kitcar manufacturers start making again, affordable kits for the many and not one-offs for the few.
What do you all think
Italo
Why should all Kitcars be cheap? of course a car that you build yourself whatever the cost is still a Kitcar!
The industry is getting rid of its old shoddy image and there are a lot of very well put together cars available, to get a good car you need R&D (as you well know) this costs a lot of money, just because the component pieces of a kit cost £3K doesn't mean a manufacturer can sell it for £4K and make a profit.
We have discussed many times the cost of setting up a Kitcar business, it aint cheap, so the costs have to rise, harsh but a fact of life.
All products have a range of prices, a Rolex is still a watch when all is said and done.
Nick
The industry is getting rid of its old shoddy image and there are a lot of very well put together cars available, to get a good car you need R&D (as you well know) this costs a lot of money, just because the component pieces of a kit cost £3K doesn't mean a manufacturer can sell it for £4K and make a profit.
We have discussed many times the cost of setting up a Kitcar business, it aint cheap, so the costs have to rise, harsh but a fact of life.
All products have a range of prices, a Rolex is still a watch when all is said and done.
Nick
A new car is expensive, built or kit. There aren't many options in the £4-5k bracket for new cars either. Also bear in mind that build cost is spread out over the length of the build, just as the cost of buying a new car is spread out on the never-never.
Are there any comprehensive body conversions like the Quantum, which are available on a monthly payments deal? That based on an insurable Fester would probably do the trick.
Are there any comprehensive body conversions like the Quantum, which are available on a monthly payments deal? That based on an insurable Fester would probably do the trick.
I will tread carefully here or Meeja will throw me out for advertising!
I can see both sides of the argument - its a case of horses for courses.
If you want something specialist - a dedicated track day experience or an exact replica of another car it will cost.
However, if you are prepare to comprimise by using standard mechanicals in another body/chassis you can get down towards the £3-4K mark.
I know from experience it is very easy to look at a kit and think that can only cost 'X' to make, but you also have to consider that a manufacturer has to pay for liability insurance, road risks insurance, advertising costs, exhibition costs, etc before they are able to sell parts or kits, so it is often not as straight forward as it seems.
I can see both sides of the argument - its a case of horses for courses.
If you want something specialist - a dedicated track day experience or an exact replica of another car it will cost.
However, if you are prepare to comprimise by using standard mechanicals in another body/chassis you can get down towards the £3-4K mark.
I know from experience it is very easy to look at a kit and think that can only cost 'X' to make, but you also have to consider that a manufacturer has to pay for liability insurance, road risks insurance, advertising costs, exhibition costs, etc before they are able to sell parts or kits, so it is often not as straight forward as it seems.
U can spend 3-4k on a paint job nowadays (and more) so a complete car for 3-4k is verging on the wrong side of unrealistic (but not impossible) but I can see the attraction as I wouldn't mind seeing if I could put a 7esque type car on the road for around the 3k mark or maybe even less.
If you're seriously into your cars and you've got say 8-14k burning a hole in your pocket, wadya gonna get, a Ford Fiesta or a Westfield, a BMW Mini or a Dax Cobra. The choice is obvious to a lot of people and it aint much money when you compare what else is on offer.
Just my 2p.
John
www.Madabout-Kitcars.com
If you're seriously into your cars and you've got say 8-14k burning a hole in your pocket, wadya gonna get, a Ford Fiesta or a Westfield, a BMW Mini or a Dax Cobra. The choice is obvious to a lot of people and it aint much money when you compare what else is on offer.
Just my 2p.
John
www.Madabout-Kitcars.com
All your comments are well taken, but what I was trying to say is that, the entrance bar to the kitcar fraternity is becoming more expensive.
I'm well aware of the R&D costs and offcourse, I will always choose a Westfield over a Bmw Mini.
But that's not the point, the point is that a kit car is a toy, my favourite toy, and this toy is becoming more expensive by the day! With little to back up these price hikes in kitcar buidls.
Now it's hard to believe that a kit/conversion fully built borders into the 12.000 Pounds!!!!!!!!! a conversion!!!! and it's a replica design.
Not much R&D on this one I'm afraid.......
Maybe a fully built kit in 5000-6000 Pound range would be more realistic, but as some of you have pointed our a good paint job is in the region of 3000 Pounds!!.
I believe that the R&D word should not be used for a lot of the kits available . Very few a worth the price and the R&D they are built upon.........................maybe 30 out of 180, and that is not good in my opinion.
The positive view is that, we have found a new niche and that a kitcar manufacture that is willing to invest in this new niche.
Kartman we are all watching you!! wish you the best with your kit, I like the concept a lot
Italo
I'm well aware of the R&D costs and offcourse, I will always choose a Westfield over a Bmw Mini.
But that's not the point, the point is that a kit car is a toy, my favourite toy, and this toy is becoming more expensive by the day! With little to back up these price hikes in kitcar buidls.
Now it's hard to believe that a kit/conversion fully built borders into the 12.000 Pounds!!!!!!!!! a conversion!!!! and it's a replica design.
Not much R&D on this one I'm afraid.......
Maybe a fully built kit in 5000-6000 Pound range would be more realistic, but as some of you have pointed our a good paint job is in the region of 3000 Pounds!!.
I believe that the R&D word should not be used for a lot of the kits available . Very few a worth the price and the R&D they are built upon.........................maybe 30 out of 180, and that is not good in my opinion.
The positive view is that, we have found a new niche and that a kitcar manufacture that is willing to invest in this new niche.
Kartman we are all watching you!! wish you the best with your kit, I like the concept a lot
Italo
I wish I could get mine down to 1360kg! 
Points taken Fuoriserie, but mine is not just a toy and is used to commute to work as well as leisure, I realise this is not the norm but it is one reason why the costs are more to have all the gizmos required for everyday motoring (aircon etc).
Nick
Points taken Fuoriserie, but mine is not just a toy and is used to commute to work as well as leisure, I realise this is not the norm but it is one reason why the costs are more to have all the gizmos required for everyday motoring (aircon etc).
Nick
aprisa said:Good point, this becomes even more important when you are talking about younger builders. This type of person will most likely only be able to afford one car(don't forget there's tax, insurance and petrol to pay for as well), and very often won't have a garage at their home or be able to rent a lock-up for longer than the build(another monthly expense on top of everything else), which means street parking. While on the face of it a Seven-type car might seem like the right choice for a young builder, it might not fit into their circumstances. Love them or loathe them, there are good reasons why a lot of young drivers have Fiestas and Corsas.
Points taken Fuoriserie, but mine is not just a toy and is used to commute to work as well as leisure, I realise this is not the norm but it is one reason why the costs are more to have all the gizmos required for everyday motoring (aircon etc).
I don't think it's fair for you to lable kitcars as overpriced. Have a look at the thread on the Toniq R and it's development costs - they have to get the money back. If you want to see something overpriced look at the Porsche Carrera GT or Ferrari Enzo (£350,000+ each) then compare them with the Ultima GTR that broke the 0-100-0 MPH world record ( cost about £60-70K).
Westyman
What I'm saying is that very few kitcar manufacturers are catering to the bottom end of the kitcar market, but instead most are catering to the top end. These are just facts, nothing wrong with this business decision, but still few kits with a low price.
Comparing the Porsche Gt and The Ferrai Enzo is a little far off, but if you are trying to tell me that the value for money figure is not there, I quite agree with you.
But the markets are different and Image for someone buyng one of those cars is more important than real ability.
But then who am I to judge Ferrari or Porsche?
Italo
What I'm saying is that very few kitcar manufacturers are catering to the bottom end of the kitcar market, but instead most are catering to the top end. These are just facts, nothing wrong with this business decision, but still few kits with a low price.
Comparing the Porsche Gt and The Ferrai Enzo is a little far off, but if you are trying to tell me that the value for money figure is not there, I quite agree with you.
But the markets are different and Image for someone buyng one of those cars is more important than real ability.
But then who am I to judge Ferrari or Porsche?
Italo
fuoriserie said:This echoes the mass car producers, who are much more keen to shift Audis and Jags than the equivalent VWs and Fords. Same reasons too - they cost about the same to make, but one sells for a higher margin than the other, so you make more money from the same product. To make money from a low budget kit, you would have to sell a lot more of them, which in itself would incur more costs and lower your margin further.
What I'm saying is that very few kitcar manufacturers are catering to the bottom end of the kitcar market, but instead most are catering to the top end. These are just facts, nothing wrong with this business decision, but still few kits with a low price.
As such, I would say that the main reason there are not many kits around of this type is because they are just not very profitable.
D-Angle
I agree with you, these kits are not profitable but maybe some real creative R&D could be done to make these kits more profitable for the manufacture and cheaper for the builder.
Very few have attempted to do so, it's easier to stick with the more expensive niche, and as a business decision it really makes more sense in the short period.
A few have tried with car conversions( Banham) but quality, from what I heard was lacking. I believe the idea of a conversion is very interesting, but some original and creative thinking needs to be in place before it can become successful .
By the way, even the big car manufacturers are planning real cars in the 4500 to 6500 Pound bracket range ( from Fiat to Renault, Peugeot to Citroen, Toyota) . Just wait the year 2005 and 2006 to se the first cars to roll out from factories.
Italo
I agree with you, these kits are not profitable but maybe some real creative R&D could be done to make these kits more profitable for the manufacture and cheaper for the builder.
Very few have attempted to do so, it's easier to stick with the more expensive niche, and as a business decision it really makes more sense in the short period.
A few have tried with car conversions( Banham) but quality, from what I heard was lacking. I believe the idea of a conversion is very interesting, but some original and creative thinking needs to be in place before it can become successful .
By the way, even the big car manufacturers are planning real cars in the 4500 to 6500 Pound bracket range ( from Fiat to Renault, Peugeot to Citroen, Toyota) . Just wait the year 2005 and 2006 to se the first cars to roll out from factories.
Italo
Mike Phillips did a pretty good job with the Jester in terms of quality and affordability.
I do think we should have more cheap (non'7') kits.
When someone is considering a build, when researching most will find lots of unfinished kits for sale. This must make many doubt their abilities. It must a quite daunting to think of spending in excess of £10k with the thought of maybe not completing the kit.
BTW Kenya was great!
I do think we should have more cheap (non'7') kits.
When someone is considering a build, when researching most will find lots of unfinished kits for sale. This must make many doubt their abilities. It must a quite daunting to think of spending in excess of £10k with the thought of maybe not completing the kit.
BTW Kenya was great!
I totally agree with you on the Harlequin jester, great concept and affordable kit car. If I remember correctly, we are looking at a DIY build cost of 3-4000 Pound.
I also don't mind the ONYX FIRFOX kit, the price is similar, easy to build, but the styling needs a few changes to make it more pleasing to the eye.
Maybe this could be an interesting concept to develop for a small kitcar manufacture...a FWD track car...........
Italo
I also don't mind the ONYX FIRFOX kit, the price is similar, easy to build, but the styling needs a few changes to make it more pleasing to the eye.
Maybe this could be an interesting concept to develop for a small kitcar manufacture...a FWD track car...........
Italo
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