RE: Toniq-R on Show
Thursday 4th July 2002
Toniq-R on Show
Project car on new website and in new exhibition
Discussion
Thank you for your sarcastic reply, you did ask for honest critisism didnt you? There is no wonder Westfield dropped all interest in your project when they saw the first offs, is there? Guys, you must have received 90/10 replies utering total disgust in your efforts, I repeat again, what did you do with the rest of your teabreak? I actually drive what I consider to be a reincarnation, (get the pun), of the Lotus seven. I still view your rendition with total disbelief. Please, please reply.
Brian.
Brian.
And while I'm at it, take a look at the latest offering from Martin Keenam in Worksop, His midi car should give you some idea of the direction things are moving in, He's certainly got Westfield frightened, youve probably got them laughing. Cant believe youre suprised at my views. I would have thought (a) you'd invited them with such a pathetic design,and/or (b) at least expected them in the abscence of much praise. Brian.
Dangerous B, perhaps because you've only been on this forum one month you don't know who petrolTed is. Perhaps when you've been on the forum longer you'll realise that people are interested in these projects and developments. AND perhaps when you realise all this your posts may be constructive or at least amusing.
Dangerous B you're an @rsehole nuff said.
Dangerous B you're an @rsehole nuff said.
Thanks for the link, The "kitcars" are simply chassis, suspension arms and body for the Locost useful but not something to worry Westfield. The GT information which I presume is the midi mentioned is just two pictures of the bodywork sitting on chasis and wheels. Clearly theres no engine, lights etc. Nor is there any informtaion about the doner, running gear performance etc. Seems to me Westfield shouldn't be too worried if a body kit is all there is. Shame it looks like a very pretty car but more details of well, everything really, needs to be posted before I part with money.
>> Edited by smeagol on Thursday 18th July 01:34
>> Edited by smeagol on Thursday 18th July 01:34
The "Midi" is as it's mame suggests a mid engined car based on a spaceframe chassis not dissimilar to WF, CM,MK and Locost version of the seven. It is bike engined, Fireblade/Blackbird engines being prefered at this time. The mid engine drives to the independant rear suspension Via chain drive to a Quaiffe diff. The prototype was rushed into being for the Stonliegh show in May, and looked absolutely georgeous. It was on the next stand to Westfield and did not go down well with them at all as they are pushing the XTR2 very hard at the moment. The thing is the Midi looks better, in my, and a lot of others views, particularly from the side. Consider the fact that the Westfield kit costs about £12.5K (I know its quite comprehensive but there's lots more to buy). The MK car kit is £3500 and can be -completed to a very high standard for £7-9K. I looked long and hard at the Seven kit market and the MK range is engineered to an excellant standard, far better than most of the competition. Any way the last time I spoke to them, MK had taken 12 advance orders for the car, (on the back of the Stonliegh Show I believe).The car is now being used as a test bed for SVA, and as many track miles as possible are being piled on the car to debug it for its debut on the track in SVA'ed form at Donnington. I can't wait to see the result, and am trying to engineer some space to enable a kit build, as this is the most excitng and cost effective Kit type car I have seen in years.
Now then from this you may see why I personally hold the Toniq rendition as very Lack lustre and hence my comments about WF's reaction to it. When /if ever, this car gets its SVA clothes on,and the edges rounded off, it will look very mundane and probably not a million miles removed from its parent chassis overcoat, although possibly closer to the the Dare car, not a bad looking car, but its been done and its not pulling up trees.
So back to the original posts, Yes I still hold these views, I still feel the original return was sarcastic, but if I asked for it then I apologise. And no, I don't know who "Petrol Ted" is, and it doesnt matter does it?, as we are all allowed our own opinions, regardless of who may be listening. If I have happened accross some elitest group, for whom the right to reply is qualified by years of membership and tiers of seniority, them I'm happy to retreat never to be heard of again. Again if I have offended the majority, then I apologise. However, there is always one exception, and thats Smeagol, yes my friend, I can be an arse ole at times ,most of us can, but I dont hide in the shadow of others, or cack my pants in their wake. Nuff said?
Brian, could this be my last post?
Now then from this you may see why I personally hold the Toniq rendition as very Lack lustre and hence my comments about WF's reaction to it. When /if ever, this car gets its SVA clothes on,and the edges rounded off, it will look very mundane and probably not a million miles removed from its parent chassis overcoat, although possibly closer to the the Dare car, not a bad looking car, but its been done and its not pulling up trees.
So back to the original posts, Yes I still hold these views, I still feel the original return was sarcastic, but if I asked for it then I apologise. And no, I don't know who "Petrol Ted" is, and it doesnt matter does it?, as we are all allowed our own opinions, regardless of who may be listening. If I have happened accross some elitest group, for whom the right to reply is qualified by years of membership and tiers of seniority, them I'm happy to retreat never to be heard of again. Again if I have offended the majority, then I apologise. However, there is always one exception, and thats Smeagol, yes my friend, I can be an arse ole at times ,most of us can, but I dont hide in the shadow of others, or cack my pants in their wake. Nuff said?
Brian, could this be my last post?
Brian,
A couple of things:
1 - FYI (if I'm correct) Petrol Ted is the owner of Piston heads and has no conection with Toniq-R. He may too dislike it for all I know, but I believe he was just picking on your lack of constructiveness, but not necessarily disagreeing (but I don't know either way)
FWIW it's not my cup of tea either, but I can appreciate the effort that they have put in to it.
2 - I too like the MK Midi and if Westfield have no concerns about it then they are very foolish indeed. I have no direct connection with MK but have only heard glowing reports about their quality and workmanship. The value speaks for itself. My interest in this type of car is because of the car I'm building for myself (mid-engined but not bike engined though)If you want look it's at www.desicodesign.com/meerkat/ and I'll even listen to constructive critisism myself
Cheers,
Alan B
A couple of things:
1 - FYI (if I'm correct) Petrol Ted is the owner of Piston heads and has no conection with Toniq-R. He may too dislike it for all I know, but I believe he was just picking on your lack of constructiveness, but not necessarily disagreeing (but I don't know either way)
FWIW it's not my cup of tea either, but I can appreciate the effort that they have put in to it.
2 - I too like the MK Midi and if Westfield have no concerns about it then they are very foolish indeed. I have no direct connection with MK but have only heard glowing reports about their quality and workmanship. The value speaks for itself. My interest in this type of car is because of the car I'm building for myself (mid-engined but not bike engined though)If you want look it's at www.desicodesign.com/meerkat/ and I'll even listen to constructive critisism myself
Cheers,
Alan B
Dangerous the kit sounds very interesting but I looked at the MK website and theres sweet FA on it apart from two prototype pictures. Is this
a) Down to them not bothering to update the website
b) The car is actually still very much in the prototype stage. There was clearly no mechanicals nor lights.
You can critisise Westfield if you like but at least they have got demonstration cars that are on the road. FYI I am very interested in a mid engined v fast, v light, le-mans prototype car and bike engined certainly looks like a very good idea. But must say the prototype shown on the website doesn't inspire confidence to your claims thats its being tested on track at this moment. Equally the unfinished "completed" projects shown on other links eg motorsport locost 1300 is clearly far form complete.
Are there any better links where I can see this car in its proper form, ie pictures of engine, lights, performance figures etc. If not definately tell this bloke to get his website sorted as potential customers incl. myself will not be impressed.
I'm always glad to see new car manufacturers and certainly if the car can be built for £8k or less I'm very interested. Please tell me more.
a) Down to them not bothering to update the website
b) The car is actually still very much in the prototype stage. There was clearly no mechanicals nor lights.
You can critisise Westfield if you like but at least they have got demonstration cars that are on the road. FYI I am very interested in a mid engined v fast, v light, le-mans prototype car and bike engined certainly looks like a very good idea. But must say the prototype shown on the website doesn't inspire confidence to your claims thats its being tested on track at this moment. Equally the unfinished "completed" projects shown on other links eg motorsport locost 1300 is clearly far form complete.
Are there any better links where I can see this car in its proper form, ie pictures of engine, lights, performance figures etc. If not definately tell this bloke to get his website sorted as potential customers incl. myself will not be impressed.
I'm always glad to see new car manufacturers and certainly if the car can be built for £8k or less I'm very interested. Please tell me more.
Meerkrat, nice project, certainly looks more completed than the midi. Couple of questions. NB not critisisms, just out of interest.
Why the Toyota engine? I thought it would be quite heavy for its power deliver ie 112bhp is not that much for 4 cylinder.
The rolling chassis looks excellent, one comment though perhaps its just the angle of the photo but the rear tyre on the right seems very close to the nut for the top of the suspension. Couldn't that catch when the body, passenger is seated (ie under extra weight) whilst cornering quickly?
Anyway good luck and keep us informed.
Why the Toyota engine? I thought it would be quite heavy for its power deliver ie 112bhp is not that much for 4 cylinder.
The rolling chassis looks excellent, one comment though perhaps its just the angle of the photo but the rear tyre on the right seems very close to the nut for the top of the suspension. Couldn't that catch when the body, passenger is seated (ie under extra weight) whilst cornering quickly?
Anyway good luck and keep us informed.
Be at Donnington for the show in September. I think MK are over whelmed buy the interest raised by this project, so they may be a little behind. As I said , watch out in September. I have no ties to the people at MK but I am suitably impressed. I have no critisism of Westfield, I owned one and loved it up til Feb this year when it had to go. The service I received from WF was first class and I still buy parts from them. But I am blown away by the new MK car in a way that the XRT2 does'nt do. This may go some way to exlain my lack of enthusiasm for the Toniq car
Smeagol, thanks for looking and giving me some feedback
Toyota engine? availibility for me at the time really, also in some states bike engined cars are hard to put on the road
also I wanted to spend very little at this stage and use a single donor for a prototype. Many other powertrains would fit the concept. A possible upgrade would be the Cadillac Northstar engine (32V All alloy V8 if you are not familiar) at around 280/300 Bhp stock!
The nut? Yes, I see what you mean. That nut is on the top end of the pushrod so consequently travels upwards with the wheel. It does get nearer because of camber change but never closer than around 2" IIRC because I haven't seen it for months
Keep looking and asking questions, I appreciate it.
Cheers,
Alan B
Toyota engine? availibility for me at the time really, also in some states bike engined cars are hard to put on the road
also I wanted to spend very little at this stage and use a single donor for a prototype. Many other powertrains would fit the concept. A possible upgrade would be the Cadillac Northstar engine (32V All alloy V8 if you are not familiar) at around 280/300 Bhp stock! The nut? Yes, I see what you mean. That nut is on the top end of the pushrod so consequently travels upwards with the wheel. It does get nearer because of camber change but never closer than around 2" IIRC because I haven't seen it for months
Keep looking and asking questions, I appreciate it.
Cheers,
Alan B
quote:
Meerkrat, nice project, certainly looks more completed than the midi. Couple of questions. NB not critisisms, just out of interest.
Why the Toyota engine? I thought it would be quite heavy for its power deliver ie 112bhp is not that much for 4 cylinder.
The rolling chassis looks excellent, one comment though perhaps its just the angle of the photo but the rear tyre on the right seems very close to the nut for the top of the suspension. Couldn't that catch when the body, passenger is seated (ie under extra weight) whilst cornering quickly?
Anyway good luck and keep us informed.
quote:
Smeagol, thanks for looking and giving me some feedback
Your welcome
quote:
Toyota engine? availibility for me at the time really, also in some states bike engined cars are hard to put on the road
Makes sense its a pity about bike engines being difficult to register. In the Uk a lot of kitcars are going this way.
quote:
A possible upgrade would be the Cadillac Northstar engine (32V All alloy V8 if you are not familiar) at around 280/300 Bhp stock!
Nice, "speeding officer, I couldn't be my house is just over there"
quote:
..... never closer than around 2" IIRC because I haven't seen it for months
I think its the camera angle then 2" would be fine clearance (looks like 20mm in the photo) unless you forget to attach the wheel nuts
. quote:
Keep looking and asking questions, I appreciate it.
Will do, as I say I'm always interested in new projects, esp as it keeps manufacturers on their toes and stops everyone driving around in soleless tin boxes.
Cheers,
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