Thinking of a 7 replica...Tiger?

[uriel]

Following on from this thread I made in GG, I'm after some advice.

If I do decide to go for a kit car for track day use I'd only really be looking to spend whatever I can get for the Corvette. This could be anywhere from £8000 to £11000 judging by recent e-bay sales and the prices that the various Corvette dealers are charging.

I figured this would allow me a decent 2nd hand Westfield with some cash for some new tools, maybe a set of wheels and tyres for the track, depending on how well the 'vette did.

But I've been looking at Tiger's site. I see they list the Super Six and Cat E1 'comprehensive' kits for £3800 and £3000. This seems very cheap and I was wondering what you actually got for this. The word comprehensive to me would suggest it includes everything, but surely not for that price. The Cat E1 mentions the Sierra donor, so I thought maybe it was everything required assuming you have all the donor parts already, including engine and gearbox. But then on the B6 description it has an asterisk pointing out that it doesn't contain engine whereas it doesn't have this for the others. I'm confused. I e-mailed them, but haven't had a response and I'm impatient

The thing is, I'm totally undecided about whether to keep the 'vette or get a track car, but if I was able to buy the track car as a kit and build it myself, then that would probably swing things in favour of the kit as I've always wanted to build one.

Also it mentions that the Super Six has a live axle. Isn't this a really bad thing if you want a car that handles? I thought a live axle only belonged on a drag car??

Last thing...I'm a tall, fat bloke. I hear regular bodied Westfields may be tight, Caterhams are fine, LWB Dax are great. Nothing about Tiger...any insight?

Any help, greatly appreciated.

[grahambell]

Can't help regarding Tiger's definition of 'comprehensive' or whether or not you'll fit (although totalkitcar editor Steve Hole managed to fit OK and he's not the slimmest of people. But don't tell him I said that ).

As for the live axle, there are many live axled cars that handle very well indeed. It all comes down to how well the axle is located. Good live axle kit cars generally locate the axle using coilover dampers, four trailing arms and a Panhard rod. A good live axle set up will actually handle better than a bad independent set up.

By the way, Tiger also do a De Dion rear axle as well.

[d-man]

I'm looking at getting a 7 replica and I've found 2 things that irritate me so far

First is the use of the word 'comprehensive' in describing kits. The meaning seems to very between manufacturers, but doesn't actually mean 'contains everything you'll need'. I'm not sure about the contents of the Tiger kits, but you'll need donor parts from at least one car (probably Sierra) and an engine, unless you're happy with Pinto power and find a suitable Sierra. Most likely you'll need other bits and pieces too, or decide that the kit supplied ones aren't what you want.

Secondly is manufacturers always quote prices ex VAT... I doubt many VAT registered companies will be buying kits so WHY? This makes the prices you're looking at £4500 and £3500.

Hope this doesn't put you off, I'm really looking forward to getting a kit... just got to decide exactly what and get the money

The Tiger mailing list seems really helpful too, although I only lurk on it. autos.groups.yahoo.com/groups/tigerracing

[stone]

On the subject of second hand Westfields. If you are interested have a look at cars for sale on the owners club forum www.wscc.co.uk Just lately there seem to be some very nicely specced cars going for very reasonable money.

[Liszt]

Tiger do a donor package for about 300-400 quid I recall.

Do a search for build diaries as they often have costs.

I am building a Dax Rush and am budgeting 15 grand for a well made v8 version.

If I wasn't building it with a friend then I'd look at a cat e1 for the 7 grand mark

[spartan_andy]

I have research the tiger cat as this is what Im thinking of doing next.

Have all the details and the comprehensive kit includes everything to get the car on the road exept donor parts. This doesnt mean they will be excellent quality or to your tastes ie the seat is just a squab seat.

However it is cheap which does allow for the purchase of the bit you do want

And yes they do do donor packs.

[anonymous-user]

I'm building a Super Six, and bought Tiger's comprehensive pack.

Additionally to this I had to buy -

- rear axle with new drums and shoes (Cortina)
- front uprights (VW Golf)
- engine (zetec) with short sump (bought Tiger's ERA sump rather than having the zetec one cutdown)
- new smaller starter motor
- battery
- wheels and tyres
- half-tonneau cover for rear boot area (not got this yet)
- short propshaft
- westfield remote gearlinkage
- Weber Alpha kit (twin 45s with ECU),this was expensive (over a grand)
- new seats - Intatrim Odysseys - although slightly-better-than-pad-seats are a kit option for about £50, but they have no headrests and little side support
- 4-point harnesses - kit includes stanard 3-points
-new front discs, recon callipers and new pads
-some misc stuff like washer bottle, horn, new mirrors etc..

I think that's about all!

It's not as bad as it looks though - lots of it came as a part of Tiger's donor kit, and some items could be dispensed with (eg. posh seats and 4-points) and some could be bought secondhand (eg. carbs, wheels).

Overall (so far) my Six has been very enjoyable to build - the Six seems to have less problem areas than the Avon or Cat (specifically there are problems with body fit I think) but it is a little more expensive, and is made from thicker square section and so is a bit heavier (about 650kgs), but at the same time a bit safer.

I've had to weld a couple of things (mainly brackets but the oil pickup pipe needs to be shortened) and I've made a few bits from ali (boot box) but I'm loving every minute of it.

>> Edited by jimsupersix on Thursday 16th September 09:20

[KITT]

Right,

Having built and currently owning a Tiger I think I can answer this one

Tiger's definition of "comprehensive" is somewhat short of your's and mine. The Cat (the one I built) contains most bits but you'll still need:

shortened pro-shaft
remote gear change
doner bits
engine
shortened sump
extra instrements (you only get fuel and speedo as standard)

There's probably a fair bit more that I've forgotten too. However, don't let that put you off! The actual build cost for mine was about £6500 which includes a reconditioned engine (£500), twin 45s (£600), alloys (£500) plus a few other nice things to have With regards to the Six, most owners get their's on the road for about £9-£10k.

Regarding the Six having a live axle, it's not the problem you might think. In fact the Six handles much better than a Cat and is smaller too. Which brings me onto fitment. The Six is tight, I'm 6' and of normal build and it's very tight for me in a Six. The Cat, by comparison, is much larger in the cockpit area.

And finally, have you considered an Avon? You should be able to build one for about the same as a Cat but you get a better chassis (lighter), double wishbones all round and because its lighter, you can stick a bike engine in it

Oh and check my website out for an idea of what's involved in building one.

Hope this helps

[uriel]

Thanks for all the info. I'm really temped to go for it. I think I'll call a few insurance companies tonight and see what I'll ne looking at for a Tiger or second hand Westfield.

I may also see about contacting Tiger to arrange a test to make sure I can fit in well enough. I have no doubt I could get in well enough to operate the car, just concerned about whether it'd be with anough room to be comfortable enough to use on track when really pushing it...

[richie_few]

id go for it matey ive had my super 6 for just over a year now and i love it.

great fun and great money to!!

[anonymous-user]

The Six cockpit is really tight - I'm just under 6ft and of medium build I suppose (I'm not fat but not a complete beanpole) and I just barely fit, but then I am using those Intatrim Odyssey seats which remove about 8 inches of length and have narrow seatbacks with side bolsters - with pad seats or Tiger's adjustables there would be more room.

Seems to be quite hard to get to see a Six before buying - every time I went to Tiger they had loads of Cats and Avons and the R6 demo cars (and the Z100 too!) but no Sixes. From memory the R6 felt about the same as the normal Six to sit in.

See if you can get a demo in the purple R6 - Paul hit 120 down that bumpy backroad (in mid air at times) and it really made my mind up - took me a week to stop grinning inanely

[dozracing]

Hi guys,

You might be interested in my kits then. Have a look at www.gtstuning.co.uk

I make a 7 replica, it fits a lot of tall guys (i'm 6ft 2 and 17 stone) and has some interesting features that competitors kits don't that you may find useful for track day or competition use.

You'll also find its very much cheaper than the other kits you are talking about.

I left work designing in F1 along side John Barnard to start this company, so hopefully that gives some credability to the mechanical design elements of the car (and there a stacks more to come soon).

We have a Lotus 11 replica model as well, should you be interested.

Kind regards,

Darren

[peetbee]

Hi Darren and welcome to PH!

GTS are a very worthy alternative to the other 7's out there (I've no connection with GTS other than as a happy customer, bought my shocks from Darren and am very happy with them)

edited cos I can't type properly today

>> Edited by peetbee on Wednesday 29th September 16:50

[Jenny Taillier]

dozracing said:

Hi guys, You might be interested in my kits then. Have a look at www.gtstuning.co.uk ......

I had heard that there was a company in Faversham making 7s. I am about 5 minutes from you.

Challenger looks nice on your website. Do you have a demonstrator running?

[steve_D]

uriel

Build your own. You will get more than just a car at the end. The whole experience will make running and owning the car that much better as you will understand how it was made and how it works.

In defence of the kit manufacturers, it is almost impossible to please everyone. If they throw in everything buyers could turn down the package cos the seats are crap etc. etc. You only have to look at the vast array of alloy designs to realise that everyone’s taste is different.

Steve

[NemesisV8]

If its purely a track day car then you should definitely look at Tom Sadlers "Mission" www.t5developments.com . We bought a Seven and then saw his car, it took about 10 seconds to decide to sell the Seven and buy a Mission.

The other good point is that there is loads of leg room and Tom will adjust the center tunnel to give you a bit more width if you need it. Also from what I have seen it totally blitzes most Sevens that are around. The prices would seem to fit as well.

[TigerS6]

I'll stick my oar in here too.

Comprehensive, it is not!
The super6 does support LSD now, although I built and still have a live axle 6.

The prices as mentioned before do not include VAT, which is a real pain when ordering parts etc....
there were lots of niggles during the build which (by now anyway) should have been resolved, but I had to make a lot of the brackets myself, and indeed had to source a lot of the components myself too.

Certainly would not recommend the donor pack. these are parts wrenched off the back of the sierra and handed to you, dirt, grease 'n all.
source the parts yourself and save a few bob!

I actually had my rebuilt for me by a friend of mine who happens to drag race pinto based cars. so I did pay a bit of a premuim, but it doesn't half shift!

Honestly when the car is finished though, and all the hassles behind me (well most of them), it is fantastic to drive, holds the road like sh*t to a blanket, and acellerates like a scalded cat.
Because the majority is ford based there is a lot you can do, I also put on a capri box giving me closer gear ratio's without paying the price for a quaife box.

I'm also 6ft, but really don't have a problem once your in the car... it becomes a bit of a technique!
on the other hand it does mean you can be very *select* in your choice of passengers!!!

Cars can be built (and running) on about 6-7k, and for a track car thats far more realistic. I however spent approaching twice that!!!

[RichardPON]

I'm quite heavily into the trackday scene, and already run a full rally spec Sapphire Cosworth for trackdays.

However, I am quite heavily into the kit car scene (other half's father has a Tojeiro, and all the family is car mad).

I've been up to the Tiger factory three times now, and have heavily investigated the purchase of one of their vehicles, after looking at ALL the alternatives.

I finally settled on an Avon, the build of which allows me to keep within a modest budget, and still have an awful lot of car for the money.

I cannot praise the attitude of the company enough - they've been helpful, courteous, and have made the decision very easy for me.

The best thing I would say would be to go and meet the company, especially on the open days. Everybody is so friendly, and the last time I was there, the lads were looking all over the Cosworth, and really genuinely interested - certified petrolheads.

Do get a test drive, and don't be afraid to ask! I'm used to good acceleration, but the sheer feeling of being in one of these cars left me looking like I'd slept with a coat hanger in mouth! Highly recommended!

[uriel]

Ok...I've made up my mind. The classified for the Corvette has been submitted, it'll be put on various sites over the next couple of days. 7 ownsership here I come!

I've decided the time isn't right for a self build since I have no garage, and not much room in my flat for storing stuff if I was to attempt the build in the back yard. I'll wait a few years until I have a garage and the money for a GT40 kit before building a car

Now I know I'm buying a built 2nd hand car I've had a look around and think a Westie may be the way to go. I figure it's going to have to be wide bodied to fit me. Now just need to find one

Does anyone know of any dealerships or anywhere in the North East (I'm in Newcastle) that have any I could try? I still can't get my head around how I'm supposed to fit into one...

[Mr2Mike]

I would certainly go for the GTS or the Tiger 6 over the Cat E1. The rear suspension on the Cat uses the extremely heavy and over engineered rear axle from the Sierra. It's just not a very suitable item for a seven in most ways.

You may also want to check on www.locostbuilders.com, a lot of knowledgable people on there who have built manufacturers kits as well as the ones building their own Locost.