Kit Car Performance ?
Discussion
Hi there thinking of buying a kitcar such as a robin/tiger or westfeild but i was wondering what kind of performance do these cars offer in terms of 0-60....0-100...etc, it seems a common fit use a pinto or zetec engine/box etc, would be looking for a 0-60 of 4secs so which combination would you guys choose ?
Bike engine is the way forward (it has to be forward as there is no reverse on a bike 
)
I have a Stuart Taylor Locost fitted with a Fireblade engine, had the car nearly a week now and the revs and acceleration are addictive
Here is a little video (27mb) of me on the weekend round castle combe
(spot the mistake 
)
BTW the escos is reported to be stage 3, 330bhp+
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/michael.green/videos/CC%20Rallyday%2004%20incar.mpg
Performance figures are around 4 sec's to 60 and top out around 125mph all from 130 bhp and 12k rpm
>> Edited by Mikey G on Monday 16th August 18:04
) I have a Stuart Taylor Locost fitted with a Fireblade engine, had the car nearly a week now and the revs and acceleration are addictive
Here is a little video (27mb) of me on the weekend round castle combe
(spot the mistake ) BTW the escos is reported to be stage 3, 330bhp+
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/michael.green/videos/CC%20Rallyday%2004%20incar.mpg
Performance figures are around 4 sec's to 60 and top out around 125mph
all from 130 bhp and 12k rpm >> Edited by Mikey G on Monday 16th August 18:04
To buy or build the Robin will be much cheaper than the other two but if you can afford the others there is probably a significant amount to be gained in terms of chassis performance and build quality.
I wouldn't get too hung up on wether it does 4 or 5 secs to 60mph. What are you using it for? If it's on the road then maybe the extra torque of a zetec etc would be better than the bike engine, if it's for the track you really need to get a lightweight chassis version of a westfield (don't know about the others) to take advantage of a bike engine. For instance, given the same tyres and weight a zetec westie will be faster around a track than a blade westie, it has more power and much more torque, but a Busa will take some catching as would a heavier but well set up V8.
Having said all that it really depends on how well you can drive, a crap driver can easily be 10 seconds a lap slower than a good one around somewhere like Donington.
If you just want to have fun any of them will do that in spades.
I wouldn't get too hung up on wether it does 4 or 5 secs to 60mph. What are you using it for? If it's on the road then maybe the extra torque of a zetec etc would be better than the bike engine, if it's for the track you really need to get a lightweight chassis version of a westfield (don't know about the others) to take advantage of a bike engine. For instance, given the same tyres and weight a zetec westie will be faster around a track than a blade westie, it has more power and much more torque, but a Busa will take some catching as would a heavier but well set up V8.
Having said all that it really depends on how well you can drive, a crap driver can easily be 10 seconds a lap slower than a good one around somewhere like Donington.
If you just want to have fun any of them will do that in spades.
Mikey G said:
Bike engine is the way forward (it has to be forward as there is no reverse on a bike
I have a Stuart Taylor Locost fitted with a Fireblade engine, had the car nearly a week now and the revs and acceleration are addictive
Here is a little video (27mb) of me on the weekend round castle combe
BTW the escos is reported to be stage 3, 330bhp+
<a href="http://homepage.ntlworld.com/michael.green/videos/CC%20Rallyday%2004%20incar.mpg">http://homepage.ntlworld.com/michael.green/videos/CC%20Rallyday%2004%20incar.mpg</a>
Performance figures are around 4 sec's to 60 and top out around 125mph
>> Edited by Mikey G on Monday 16th August 18:04
Hi, please don't take this the wrong way but I've just had a look at your video, which was excellent by the way, however if the timer is to be believed you went around in about 1min. 35secs. I know the car is new and you probably got much quicker but from experience your car could probably go around 10-15 secs quicker a lap. It may be worth investing in some instruction after all how much BHP would your car need to make it go that much faster (shitloads)when a after a few lessons you could too.
I stress this is meant to be positive.
custardtart said:
Hi, please don't take this the wrong way but I've just had a look at your video, which was excellent by the way, however if the timer is to be believed you went around in about 1min. 35secs. I know the car is new and you probably got much quicker but from experience your car could probably go around 10-15 secs quicker a lap. It may be worth investing in some instruction after all how much BHP would your car need to make it go that much faster (shitloads)when a after a few lessons you could too.
I stress this is meant to be positive.
I'm not that experienced with the car for one, it was on shoddy road tyres, i felt there is too much bias to the front brakes, i'm not used to the gear change, i'm not a racing driver, i'm overweight
enough excuses? 
I know there is a lot more to be had from the car but at the moment i am not that serious into it to be timing myself around the race track while having fun
if i was out to break records then i would have been a little more prepared for it! The car is going to have a little rebuild over the winter to get it how i want it so expect my 'times' to come down over next year.
Mike
Mikey G said:
The car is going to have a little rebuild over the winter to get it how i want it so expect my 'times' to come down over next year.
Mike
Thanks for taking it the right way, it's quite brave to put the video on show but definitely worth it.
All points accepted and i hope you enjoy what looks a cracking car - now where's that video camera...
With a new car and set up needing a tweak,you've done well.Fab clip,didn't see any mistakes!!!.I have a Zetec powered westie and with the lsd (3.92-1) I have in it at the moment,would give a good sub 5 sec 0-60,but would not be a match for a BEC.The Westie type BEC is tiny in comparison to the wide body I have.Although mine is a road car,leather seats,etc as bike cars tend to be blat cars or track day funsters.I have done a journey non-stop of nearly 300 miles bar fuel stops and cruising along is pleasant.Try doing that in a bike car at 9000rpm.you'd be wiped out.To get that kind of performance is possible.I know of a chap who had a 250 bhp Vx engined car,basically track biased with straight cut box etc.Timed at Silverstone with a 0-100 of under 6 secs.He was just trying to find out if the gearing in the box was wrong,as 1st ran out of steam sooo quickly.The only thing was,he had slicks on and was still a problem getting traction.
Liszt said:
I will be looking at sub 5 for a 4.6 V8 powered Dax Rush.
You'll need either a Bike engine or V8 or forced induction to hit that sort of acceleration
I dont think you will have a problem getting sub 5 from a 4.6, what sort of power? I had a v8 westie which ran mid 4 all day long. It didnt make a damned bit of difference to the time launching in first or second.
Justin S said:
.Fab clip,didn't see any mistakes!!!..
I take it you missed the part of the clip where i missed the braking point into Bobbies (chicane) and spun it
The car is very positive on the front and turn in is excellent, but there is either a lack of braking grip or too much braking to the front with little feel.
I have yet to drive a car engined 7 but as i understand they are not as positive due to the extra weight over the front, but this may also help with braking grip which is what i'm lacking! may try it on slicks and an adjustable bias bar instead of the fixed one that is in there at the moment.
Mike
Mikey G said:
I take it you missed the part of the clip where i missed the braking point into Bobbies (chicane) and spun it
The car is very positive on the front and turn in is excellent, but there is either a lack of braking grip or too much braking to the front with little feel.
Too much bias to the rear is more likely to lead to a spin.
Mikey G said:
may try it on slicks and an adjustable bias bar instead of the fixed one that is in there at the moment.
Mike
You could try Yokohama AO32R's, they're very good and road legal.
If you want extreme try Avon ACB10's, these are about as grippy as you get without being slicks - plus if you get the E marked versions they are road legal too.
Slicks are really hard to get used too and can be quite scary in a kind of all or nothing way.
Plus you're then into new wheels and possibly trailoring the car to track days. Also, the blade engine is v. light which can give you a less than positive feeling front end. You could also try adding abit of castor angle to give a touch more steering feel.
As for the brakes, a simple way to test the bias is (when no ones looking) drive at a given speed say 40/50mph then break hard enough to lock up the front wheels then harder until the rears lock up. This will give you a rough idea of the bias.
Hi, just getting onto the Kit car scene. With this in mind I went to visit SSC in Wales. Their roadwothy race car is claimed to do the 0-60 dash in ~3.8secs and top out around the 150 mark. This is a car engine (can't remeber which one though). Their current demo will do it in around 5.5secs with a mildly modded pinto.
I drove the demo - very nice and top of my list.
Mark T
I drove the demo - very nice and top of my list.
Mark T
tannerma2002 said:
Hi, just getting onto the Kit car scene. With this in mind I went to visit SSC in Wales. Their roadwothy race car is claimed to do the 0-60 dash in ~3.8secs and top out around the 150 mark. This is a car engine (can't remeber which one though). Their current demo will do it in around 5.5secs with a mildly modded pinto.
I drove the demo - very nice and top of my list.
Mark T
I thought the demo (red car) had a 18oo zetec on carbs when I drove it. The RT (orange) has a duratec 3L- i think. I can recommend all at Stylus, they are very helpful and even answered the phone today (bank holiday) for advice. Not like my Westfield experiance.
Also why 0-60 times. Is it for traffic lights? All sports style kit cars are fast.
Kev
tannerma2002 said:
Hi, just getting onto the Kit car scene. With this in mind I went to visit SSC in Wales. Their roadwothy race car is claimed to do the 0-60 dash in ~3.8secs and top out around the 150 mark. This is a car engine (can't remeber which one though). Their current demo will do it in around 5.5secs with a mildly modded pinto.
I drove the demo - very nice and top of my list.
Mark T
This is all interesting stuff. How about an LS1/6 in a wide bodied westie
Traction will surely be the issue but if that can be massivly improved, warp speed Mr SuluKevp said:
I thought the demo (red car) had a 18oo zetec on carbs when I drove it. The RT (orange) has a duratec 3L- i think. I can recommend all at Stylus, they are very helpful and even answered the phone today (bank holiday) for advice. Not like my Westfield experiance.
Also why 0-60 times. Is it for traffic lights? All sports style kit cars are fast.
Kev
Quite possibly right on the engine. Tim is building a new demo for himself at the moment. Don't know what engine's going in it though.
Here's a review on the current SSC demo car: www.pistonheads.com/roadtests/doc.asp?c=112&i=7351
Like you say Kev, Tim Benbow (didn't meet the other two as they were either working on a new design at home or on leave) is very helpful and generally a nice guy.
0-60 times, I guess, give you an idea of how quick the car is going to be accelerating out of corners and off the lights (not just the traffic ones).
Mark T
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