Kit Car assembly
Discussion
Hi guys, I'm new to pistonheads but looking around I think you guys might be able to help me with your knowledge and opinions.
I'm thinking of opening a business offering the assembly of kit cars. I would also do maintenance, servicing and MOT prep and would probably set myself up to do AC servicing too.
The business would be in South Yorkshire and I already have the premises (would be working from home), equipment and cash to be able to do this. I'm aware that most small businesses don't make any profit in their first year and I'm ok with that.
I have considerable experience as a mechanic and inspector so my engineering knowledge and ability is not an issue.
So what I want to know is do the guys on this forum, whose experience and knowledge of kit cars is probably way above mine, think this is a plausible business? Do people still want cars building for them? Is anyone thinking of having a car built or had one built for them? Or is anyone a professional builder themselves?
I know some builders specialise in cobras or '7's or whatever they personally enjoy building (I love cobras!) but I would be willing to take on any build. I am especially interested in building a wedding car or something along those lines.
I have noticed that a lot of kit car assemblers seem to be in the south so I'm hoping that may help me get customers and the fact that I am willing to start small and don't intend this to be a get rich quick scheme or anything like that, all I want is a job enjoy and a liveable wage.
I'm pretty sure I can keep my prices very competitive and also keep to a good timescale with the quality that people want so there should be no problems there.
So let me know your views and opinions guys, positive or negative.
Cheers.
Chris
I'm thinking of opening a business offering the assembly of kit cars. I would also do maintenance, servicing and MOT prep and would probably set myself up to do AC servicing too.
The business would be in South Yorkshire and I already have the premises (would be working from home), equipment and cash to be able to do this. I'm aware that most small businesses don't make any profit in their first year and I'm ok with that.
I have considerable experience as a mechanic and inspector so my engineering knowledge and ability is not an issue.
So what I want to know is do the guys on this forum, whose experience and knowledge of kit cars is probably way above mine, think this is a plausible business? Do people still want cars building for them? Is anyone thinking of having a car built or had one built for them? Or is anyone a professional builder themselves?
I know some builders specialise in cobras or '7's or whatever they personally enjoy building (I love cobras!) but I would be willing to take on any build. I am especially interested in building a wedding car or something along those lines.
I have noticed that a lot of kit car assemblers seem to be in the south so I'm hoping that may help me get customers and the fact that I am willing to start small and don't intend this to be a get rich quick scheme or anything like that, all I want is a job enjoy and a liveable wage.
I'm pretty sure I can keep my prices very competitive and also keep to a good timescale with the quality that people want so there should be no problems there.
So let me know your views and opinions guys, positive or negative.
Cheers.
Chris
Building a kit car can be a frustrating and time consuming business, which is exactly why there are often people who would rather pay someone to do it (or finish it) than struggle themselves.
I expect you will get answers from those who do, or have done the business that you propose. I would imagine that as a commercial enterprise, a lot of the problems stem from not being able to accurately forecast just how long a job will take.
However; best of luck in your proposed venture, I'm sure you'll get some answers from those with first hand experience.
I expect you will get answers from those who do, or have done the business that you propose. I would imagine that as a commercial enterprise, a lot of the problems stem from not being able to accurately forecast just how long a job will take.
However; best of luck in your proposed venture, I'm sure you'll get some answers from those with first hand experience.
I think that most people start off building a kit are relatively happy about bolting and screwing stuff together. It is the Kit finishing that can be an issue.
Wiring and electrics are something that can seem completely impossible when you look at a wiring loom with the seemingly impossible mission to put it in a mechanically finished car. Also bleeding brake systems and putting brake lines in. So things like wiring and guages/senders plus tuning and making sure everything has the correct radius and edging and caps for IVA would be my personal biggest focus if i were starting out.
Wiring and electrics are something that can seem completely impossible when you look at a wiring loom with the seemingly impossible mission to put it in a mechanically finished car. Also bleeding brake systems and putting brake lines in. So things like wiring and guages/senders plus tuning and making sure everything has the correct radius and edging and caps for IVA would be my personal biggest focus if i were starting out.
Thanks for the replies so far. I was planning on building a couple of cars to take to shows and show potential customers what I can do. Was thinking of doing a Cobra and a '7' but any other suggestions would be welcome. Something out of the ordinary would be good as it would hopefully grab people's attention.
Sorry but I can't see this working other than a hobby business if you have taken early retirementand just want an interest / pocket money.
Most manufacturers will offer to build their kit for you for a fairly low cost. Most charge around £1.5 to 2k
I don't see how you would really compete with them.
They can afford to charge less because they are familiar with the kit so will take less time to build and are already making margin on selling the kit in the first place so can discount.
Also for many the attraction of kit cars is the building. Otherwise much more cost effective to buy a car a year old already built.
If you are an experienced mechanic you would make more offering yourself as a mobile mechanic and doing servicing and repairs etc. This way your make money on the parts you fit and you can probably charge your time out at a higher rate.
David
Most manufacturers will offer to build their kit for you for a fairly low cost. Most charge around £1.5 to 2k
I don't see how you would really compete with them.
They can afford to charge less because they are familiar with the kit so will take less time to build and are already making margin on selling the kit in the first place so can discount.
Also for many the attraction of kit cars is the building. Otherwise much more cost effective to buy a car a year old already built.
If you are an experienced mechanic you would make more offering yourself as a mobile mechanic and doing servicing and repairs etc. This way your make money on the parts you fit and you can probably charge your time out at a higher rate.
David
XTR2Turbo said:
Most manufacturers will offer to build their kit for you for a fairly low cost. Most charge around £1.5 to 2k
I don't see how you would really compete with them.
David
Most? Maybe Caterham or Westfield where they asssemble a box of parts to a standard finish.I don't see how you would really compete with them.
David
I can't see a Cobra, Stratos, GT40, Ultima manufacturer building one for anything like 2k.
Dax, gardner douglas and Ultima will build a customer car also.
It will be more than a couple of grand for those cars because the cars are more complex and time consuming but the logic still applies. They will all build them more quickly than you could as a first timer. And if you were paying to have it built and the bill was going to be £40 - £70k would you rather pay the manufacturer or a somewhat unknown third party?
As I say I am sure there is scope to pick up part built kits and help finish them and possibly modifications, crash repairs and upgrades etc but IMHO I can't see a large demand for customers requesting outright builds from scratch.
Personally I would not be directing your skills towards the kit car industry unless it is more a lifestyle business than a money making exercise.
It will be more than a couple of grand for those cars because the cars are more complex and time consuming but the logic still applies. They will all build them more quickly than you could as a first timer. And if you were paying to have it built and the bill was going to be £40 - £70k would you rather pay the manufacturer or a somewhat unknown third party?
As I say I am sure there is scope to pick up part built kits and help finish them and possibly modifications, crash repairs and upgrades etc but IMHO I can't see a large demand for customers requesting outright builds from scratch.
Personally I would not be directing your skills towards the kit car industry unless it is more a lifestyle business than a money making exercise.
Interesting.
XTR2Turbo has been very forthright in his statements and it is difficult to argue against his points. I definitely agree that you would be unwise to rely on kit cars as your sole source of income. As your original post states that you would be set up for maintenance, MOT prep AC servicing etc. you seem to have that base covered!
Speaking as someone who has made use of two professional build services to complete my own kit (a Minari), I can also confirm that, as Slomax said, people can often handle the mechanical bits but get a bit phased by some of the other stuff like the wiring, fitting the interior trim etc, etc. - that's where I and my amateur helpers lost momentum - and I know of a couple of others who were in the same boat.
Why two build services? Well the first one that I tried was a disaster and shall remain nameless - he basically messed me around for a couple of years before he (to his credit) admitted he wasn't going to be able to finish the car.
(The guy in question isn't really well known in the industry and was trying to establish himself - AFAIK he is no longer pursuing work on kit cars.)
This led me to enlist the services of Arden Automotive who, while not being cheap, have made a good job of the work I asked them to do and the car is now road legal and registered, which was pretty much what I wanted from them!
One thing I would advise anyone in the position of looking for a build service would be for them to select one that's not too far from home. The first guy I tried was based 4 hours from where I live, so it was quite difficult to get down there and visit to monitor progress etc. It might have helped if I had been a bit closer. This was certainly something I took into account when selecting Arden - they're about 45 minutes away!
So, if you don't have much competition in your part of the country, you might have a market there. Especially if you opened your base to include other project cars.
As XTR2 says though, my first choice for my next build (should I be tempted again!) would be the manufacturer, if they are still around! One thing that could be open to you (if you are serious about building a car or two to show off your skills) would be to select your build wisely and work with the manufacturer with a view to becoming a build agent for their cars - they might even put work your way then!
XTR2Turbo has been very forthright in his statements and it is difficult to argue against his points. I definitely agree that you would be unwise to rely on kit cars as your sole source of income. As your original post states that you would be set up for maintenance, MOT prep AC servicing etc. you seem to have that base covered!
Speaking as someone who has made use of two professional build services to complete my own kit (a Minari), I can also confirm that, as Slomax said, people can often handle the mechanical bits but get a bit phased by some of the other stuff like the wiring, fitting the interior trim etc, etc. - that's where I and my amateur helpers lost momentum - and I know of a couple of others who were in the same boat.
Why two build services? Well the first one that I tried was a disaster and shall remain nameless - he basically messed me around for a couple of years before he (to his credit) admitted he wasn't going to be able to finish the car.
(The guy in question isn't really well known in the industry and was trying to establish himself - AFAIK he is no longer pursuing work on kit cars.)
This led me to enlist the services of Arden Automotive who, while not being cheap, have made a good job of the work I asked them to do and the car is now road legal and registered, which was pretty much what I wanted from them!
One thing I would advise anyone in the position of looking for a build service would be for them to select one that's not too far from home. The first guy I tried was based 4 hours from where I live, so it was quite difficult to get down there and visit to monitor progress etc. It might have helped if I had been a bit closer. This was certainly something I took into account when selecting Arden - they're about 45 minutes away!
So, if you don't have much competition in your part of the country, you might have a market there. Especially if you opened your base to include other project cars.
As XTR2 says though, my first choice for my next build (should I be tempted again!) would be the manufacturer, if they are still around! One thing that could be open to you (if you are serious about building a car or two to show off your skills) would be to select your build wisely and work with the manufacturer with a view to becoming a build agent for their cars - they might even put work your way then!
Hi Chris,
I recently acquired a Pontiac fiero based Ferrari 308 replica that needs some finish off done to it (body work with small holes and cracks, inside a bit tatty, boot doesn't lock and doesnt sit properly, temperamental electricals, needs mirrors and exhaust manifold to be fitted, etc).
Would you by any chance be interested to take this forward? I am based in London but happy to get the car trailered to you if needed.
Please feel free to either call me on 07500783835 to discuss or drop me a line!
Many thanks,
Alan
I recently acquired a Pontiac fiero based Ferrari 308 replica that needs some finish off done to it (body work with small holes and cracks, inside a bit tatty, boot doesn't lock and doesnt sit properly, temperamental electricals, needs mirrors and exhaust manifold to be fitted, etc).
Would you by any chance be interested to take this forward? I am based in London but happy to get the car trailered to you if needed.
Please feel free to either call me on 07500783835 to discuss or drop me a line!
Many thanks,
Alan
I choose not to offer a build service or turn key cars, so there is potential, it could make a business case if done efficiently, the chances are though that if you take on a kit that you have not done before then there will be a learning curve, second time around you have all the answers.
My guess is that if you built something other than kits that the scene is well known for then you have a better chance of earning a reasonable wage but I also feel that it may be difficult to get to £30 per hour which s minimum if you have a workshop overhead to pay for.
My guess is that if you built something other than kits that the scene is well known for then you have a better chance of earning a reasonable wage but I also feel that it may be difficult to get to £30 per hour which s minimum if you have a workshop overhead to pay for.
Plenty of people have tried this as a business before.
IIRC, Singlecoil on these forums did this as a business... AFAIK he's now installing kitchens for a living.
I think the problem is that building kit cars, like restoration of classic cars, is disproportionately time consuming, so few people are willing/able to pay a sensible price for it. There is a limited market for the really simple, snap-together kits, like Caterhams and (maybe) Westfield, which can be knocked together quickly enough to make the cost viable. There is also a market for the restoration of high value classic cars, but most kits fall into the middle ground wehre the end value of the kit cannot justfiy the high cost of having it put together by a professional.
Manufacturer builds of kits are slightly different - they know the product intimately and have solved all the problems before.
IIRC, Singlecoil on these forums did this as a business... AFAIK he's now installing kitchens for a living.
I think the problem is that building kit cars, like restoration of classic cars, is disproportionately time consuming, so few people are willing/able to pay a sensible price for it. There is a limited market for the really simple, snap-together kits, like Caterhams and (maybe) Westfield, which can be knocked together quickly enough to make the cost viable. There is also a market for the restoration of high value classic cars, but most kits fall into the middle ground wehre the end value of the kit cannot justfiy the high cost of having it put together by a professional.
Manufacturer builds of kits are slightly different - they know the product intimately and have solved all the problems before.
Ahh, I can answer this one.
I have been kit building for 20 years this year as my full time source of income.
Since 2008 the market has got smaller and smaller.
I have gone from a farm shed to an industrial unit with more going on than many kit manufacturers with multiple staff to now working from a reasonable sized garage/workshop at home almost part time.
Would I suggest getting into doing this in the current economic climate? No! It's rough out there and I am surviving off my reputation which at the moment you don't have.
However, I only build Cobras and this is for reasons mentioned above. There is a learning curve and if you are constantly moving to different kits you are going to struggle to get to grips with what goes where in an efficient manner.
My definition of a kit car is "A collection of parts that almost fit together".
This business if not like working with MFI furniture.
If for example Cobra building takes your fancy you have to bear in mind that if the kit is considered "Cheap" then the customer will assume that putting it together will be cheap, this is often the reverse because the reason it is cheap is because less of the required work is taken care of at the manufacturers and you will have more to do that would otherwise have been included.
This can range from simple jobs like painting components that are not supplied plated or powder coated to assembling body panels that otherwise would be pre bonded into place.
The best place to be is with building cars from fewer different manufacturers (if you can get the orders), this way you won't have to learn from every car you build. However, most manufacturers will already have "Preferred" build agents/specialists who they are confident to direct customers towards.
This means you will have to find all your own work without any coming from the best recommendation source.
Feel free to give me a call, I don't mind talking shop.
07785 702005
Just realised how old the start of this thread is. all above still applies though.
I have been kit building for 20 years this year as my full time source of income.
Since 2008 the market has got smaller and smaller.
I have gone from a farm shed to an industrial unit with more going on than many kit manufacturers with multiple staff to now working from a reasonable sized garage/workshop at home almost part time.
Would I suggest getting into doing this in the current economic climate? No! It's rough out there and I am surviving off my reputation which at the moment you don't have.
However, I only build Cobras and this is for reasons mentioned above. There is a learning curve and if you are constantly moving to different kits you are going to struggle to get to grips with what goes where in an efficient manner.
My definition of a kit car is "A collection of parts that almost fit together".
This business if not like working with MFI furniture.
If for example Cobra building takes your fancy you have to bear in mind that if the kit is considered "Cheap" then the customer will assume that putting it together will be cheap, this is often the reverse because the reason it is cheap is because less of the required work is taken care of at the manufacturers and you will have more to do that would otherwise have been included.
This can range from simple jobs like painting components that are not supplied plated or powder coated to assembling body panels that otherwise would be pre bonded into place.
The best place to be is with building cars from fewer different manufacturers (if you can get the orders), this way you won't have to learn from every car you build. However, most manufacturers will already have "Preferred" build agents/specialists who they are confident to direct customers towards.
This means you will have to find all your own work without any coming from the best recommendation source.
Feel free to give me a call, I don't mind talking shop.
07785 702005
Just realised how old the start of this thread is. all above still applies though.
I doubt you could make a business constructing full cars as a 3rd party start to finish and turn a profit. BUT I can see you making money finishing bits and bobs like wiring etc. that people struggle to do themselves, there are other companies out there already so if you set yourself up as a "kitcar friendly" garage finishing, servicing and repairing you may succeed with a set hourly fee like a regular garage or restorer. Caterham et all can afford to construct a car for you for £2k as they already are making £000's from the profit in the parts, and they are geared up after 40 years of pefection. That alas does not apply to most kits!
Good luck if you take the plunge!!!
Good luck if you take the plunge!!!
One of the primary reasons for a lot of people doing a kit car is the cheapness (perceived) of having a fast car etc. I would doubt that people would be prepared to pay £50 an hour to have the whole job done. As has been suggested, finishing wiring etc may be more profitable.
My 40+ years in the trade has taught me, amonst other things, that long term/large jobs don't pay well. It is impossible to make a decent hourly rate because of all the fettling and general messing about to make things fit. Also, a paying punter won't accept a standard of work which they would be happy with if done by themselves.
Dig deep to consider the profitablility of such a venture.
Rates + rent + insurance + power + 'phone + bank and c/c charges + business expenses per annum, divided by 50= the ammount you need to make per week. If you are in attendeance for 50 hours, you will get about 30 hours of work done with talking to customers and answering the 'phone etc. So divide that ammount by 30 to get a nett rate you need to make per hour, before you make any profit or pay yourself any wages.
BTW, I do a lot of business consultancy in the trade! That bit above would normally cost a few quid!!
My 40+ years in the trade has taught me, amonst other things, that long term/large jobs don't pay well. It is impossible to make a decent hourly rate because of all the fettling and general messing about to make things fit. Also, a paying punter won't accept a standard of work which they would be happy with if done by themselves.
Dig deep to consider the profitablility of such a venture.
Rates + rent + insurance + power + 'phone + bank and c/c charges + business expenses per annum, divided by 50= the ammount you need to make per week. If you are in attendeance for 50 hours, you will get about 30 hours of work done with talking to customers and answering the 'phone etc. So divide that ammount by 30 to get a nett rate you need to make per hour, before you make any profit or pay yourself any wages.
BTW, I do a lot of business consultancy in the trade! That bit above would normally cost a few quid!!
Hi Chris, my name is Jennifer ..I have a weird question, I guess. Knowing the blog forum I'm on any ways. .I've recently been left a kit car almost finished..sadly because my engineering mechanic uncle has passed away to soon because of cancer. This car is sitting in the garage and I can't stand seeing it unfinished. .
It was his pride and joy, and I know he would want it finished. .I have to be honest I am igno rant wn it comes to this. I'm wondering if I can pay you or someone to finish his project. .thank you for your consideration..Jenn..ps I think it's a cobra..that's the symbol on the dash
It was his pride and joy, and I know he would want it finished. .I have to be honest I am igno rant wn it comes to this. I'm wondering if I can pay you or someone to finish his project. .thank you for your consideration..Jenn..ps I think it's a cobra..that's the symbol on the dash
Jennifer,
Your profile says that you are located in Texas, in the United States.
This is a UK forum and most of the people who post on it are in the UK: quite apart from the fact that Chris hasn't here for almost 5 years, he stated his location as South Yorkshire, in England.
If you can post a picture of your car, we would certainly be able to identify is as a Cobra replica, but if it is (and it sounds very likely, just from the badge you have described) then you would be better off asking advice on a US Cobra forum
Given your location, the Texas Cobra Club might be a good place to start.
Your profile says that you are located in Texas, in the United States.
This is a UK forum and most of the people who post on it are in the UK: quite apart from the fact that Chris hasn't here for almost 5 years, he stated his location as South Yorkshire, in England.
If you can post a picture of your car, we would certainly be able to identify is as a Cobra replica, but if it is (and it sounds very likely, just from the badge you have described) then you would be better off asking advice on a US Cobra forum
Given your location, the Texas Cobra Club might be a good place to start.
Gassing Station | Kit Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff