Cars with full fibreglass monocoque?
Discussion
Very good information on load distribution indeed.
I wonder if models for fibreglass (and carbon fiber and marine plywood) are available as standard in 3d modeling tools (autocad and such) to calculate loads, that would be great, also to compare varying materials and placement relative to each other.
P.s. allow me please to dream off a bit on a wooden chassis that I've been wanting to build for quite some time now:
I wonder if models for fibreglass (and carbon fiber and marine plywood) are available as standard in 3d modeling tools (autocad and such) to calculate loads, that would be great, also to compare varying materials and placement relative to each other.
P.s. allow me please to dream off a bit on a wooden chassis that I've been wanting to build for quite some time now:
Nerdherder said:
...allow me please to dream off a bit on a wooden chassis that I've been wanting to build for quite some time now:
You and me both... Frank Costin is a hero of mine, and the Costin-Nathan is the one car above all others that I would love to replicate, if I could afford to (though I suspect that an accurate replica of the wooden monocoque would be fearsomely expensive, these days, unless you could offer it in plan form for DIY home manufacture). Equus said:
Nerdherder said:
...allow me please to dream off a bit on a wooden chassis that I've been wanting to build for quite some time now:
You and me both... Frank Costin is a hero of mine, and the Costin-Nathan is the one car above all others that I would love to replicate, if I could afford to (though I suspect that an accurate replica of the wooden monocoque would be fearsomely expensive, these days, unless you could offer it in plan form for DIY home manufacture). 
If you do start (planning) a build please share! I'll make sure I do.
I'm planning to start the replication process in a scaled down contraption (in shape more like Costins Protos Formula 2 racer), perfect building techniques there and then start scaling up.
Nerdherder said:
I'm planning to start the replication process in a scaled down contraption (in shape more like Costins Protos Formula 2 racer), perfect building techniques there and then start scaling up.
Are you planning on using wood for the monocoque?I am part way down a very similar route on a simple single seater as a 'testbed' (the design is going very slowly due to pressure of other work... though I've got an Aprilia V-twin sitting beside the desk in my CAD office waiting for me to pull my finger out) but ended up with a design that more closely resembles a Lotus 27, and uses a simple routed-and-folded sandwich panel (glass/carbon fibre skins with Nomex honeycomb core) instead of plywood.
Similarly, I have toyed with the idea of a Costin-Nathan lookalike tub, manufactured from fibre composite panels instead of plywood.
Sadly, I completely missed the Costin Nathan body moulds when they were up for sale a year or two ago... they went for a very reasonable price, as I recall, too!
Equus said:
Nerdherder said:
I'm planning to start the replication process in a scaled down contraption (in shape more like Costins Protos Formula 2 racer), perfect building techniques there and then start scaling up.
Are you planning on using wood for the monocoque?Equus said:
I am part way down a very similar route on a simple single seater as a 'testbed' (the design is going very slowly due to pressure of other work... though I've got an Aprilia V-twin sitting beside the desk in my CAD office waiting for me to pull my finger out) but ended up with a design that more closely resembles a Lotus 27, and uses a simple routed-and-folded sandwich panel (glass/carbon fibre skins with Nomex honeycomb core) instead of plywood.
Similarly, I have toyed with the idea of a Costin-Nathan lookalike tub, manufactured from fibre composite panels instead of plywood.
Sadly, I completely missed the Costin Nathan body moulds when they were up for sale a year or two ago... they went for a very reasonable price, as I recall, too!
Came across the moulds today as well when reading into the Costin cars again, looks like they went for a very bearable price indeed. Similarly, I have toyed with the idea of a Costin-Nathan lookalike tub, manufactured from fibre composite panels instead of plywood.
Sadly, I completely missed the Costin Nathan body moulds when they were up for sale a year or two ago... they went for a very reasonable price, as I recall, too!
Your recipe for the 27 inspired car sounds tasty indeed, fun to have a throbbing V-twin in a sophisticated chassis. Work also nearly disables any time spent on pet projects here haha.
Auntieroll said:
There is a "one off " GRP monocoque GTM coupe which was made a few years ago.
That was me and it wasn't a full monocoque. I made a GRP replica of the original GTM chassis. For the purposes of this discussion it was, however, fully rustproof. That was the aim of the whole project.
gtmdriver said:
Auntieroll said:
There is a "one off " GRP monocoque GTM coupe which was made a few years ago.
That was me and it wasn't a full monocoque. I made a GRP replica of the original GTM chassis. For the purposes of this discussion it was, however, fully rustproof. That was the aim of the whole project.Nerdherder said:
Does it still drive and tell a bit more about the building process and your learnings in terms of longevity and driving experience please, am very interested and would be a great contribution to this topic.
Definitely this.I seem to remember seeing a bit of a build log on your car somewhere else (Locostbuilders.co.uk?), but would be great to know more about it, and how it's working out in use.
Equus said:
Definitely this.
I seem to remember seeing a bit of a build log on your car somewhere else (Locostbuilders.co.uk?), but would be great to know more about it, and how it's working out in use.
I'm afraid I can't tell you a great deal about the long term viability as I sold the car about a year after I finished it and, I am told, it went abroad never to be heard of again.I seem to remember seeing a bit of a build log on your car somewhere else (Locostbuilders.co.uk?), but would be great to know more about it, and how it's working out in use.
As regards it's construction I basically made it in much the same way as the original steel chassis had been produced. I laminated a number of large flat GRP sheets using 2 layers of 600g/sqm matting then cut them to shape and bonded them together along the seams to form the complete structure. Once the shape was established I laminated over the entire internal surface with another 2 layers of 600g/sqm matting incorporating strengthening ribs over the flat areas and stress bearing structures such as the rear and front bulkheads. Due to the various overlaps in the matting corner areas were 8 - 10 mm in places so the structure was very rigid if a bit overweight. As I said in my previous post though the aim was a corrosion free chassis and weight was not really a consideration.
Did you do any comparisons of weight or torsional stiffness vs. the original?
Did it drive the same (NVH, etc.)?
I've driven Libras and Midas', and been favourably impressed (the GTM clonked, banged and rattled a lot more than the S1 Elise we tested it back-to-back with, but I think that was details stuff, rather than anything fundamental).
Did it drive the same (NVH, etc.)?
I've driven Libras and Midas', and been favourably impressed (the GTM clonked, banged and rattled a lot more than the S1 Elise we tested it back-to-back with, but I think that was details stuff, rather than anything fundamental).
Edited by Equus on Saturday 31st August 13:41
Nerdherder said:
...allow me please to dream off a bit on a wooden chassis that I've been wanting to build for quite some time now:
Purely by coincidence (I think... I don't think he would recognise my username on here as being me...), I had an email from Friend Wood over the weekend, to ask me if I'd seen the article in August's edition of Octane, about the Costin Nathan (I hadn't).I didn't realise, as I haven't been in touch with Friend for a while, that he was responsible for the new tub on the recently rebuilt prototype.
There are some nice photos on the Costin Nathan page on Facebook, if you're interested... and if you're seriously interested, I can ask him if he minds me giving you his email address, to put the two of you in contact. PM me if you like (or, indeed, if you're interested in discussing our respective plans in more detail).
Equus said:
Nerdherder said:
...allow me please to dream off a bit on a wooden chassis that I've been wanting to build for quite some time now:
Purely by coincidence (I think... I don't think he would recognise my username on here as being me...), I had an email from Friend Wood over the weekend, to ask me if I'd seen the article in August's edition of Octane, about the Costin Nathan (I hadn't).I didn't realise, as I haven't been in touch with Friend for a while, that he was responsible for the new tub on the recently rebuilt prototype.
There are some nice photos on the Costin Nathan page on Facebook, if you're interested... and if you're seriously interested, I can ask him if he minds me giving you his email address, to put the two of you in contact. PM me if you like (or, indeed, if you're interested in discussing our respective plans in more detail).
Will probably get the mag too.
Edited by Nerdherder on Monday 2nd September 13:50
Equus said:
Did you do any comparisons of weight or torsional stiffness vs. the original?
Did it drive the same (NVH, etc.)?
I've driven Libras and Midas', and been favourably impressed (the GTM clonked, banged and rattled a lot more than the S1 Elise we tested it back-to-back with, but I think that was details stuff, rather than anything fundamental).
I didn't do any comparative measurements of stiffness or weight. As I said above weight was not a concern for me. What I can tell you is that the chassis I produced was a great deal straighter than the original GTM unit. When I started taking accurate measurements of the original I found the side to side and diagonal measurements were all over the place. My replacement was definitely straight and symmetrical.Did it drive the same (NVH, etc.)?
I've driven Libras and Midas', and been favourably impressed (the GTM clonked, banged and rattled a lot more than the S1 Elise we tested it back-to-back with, but I think that was details stuff, rather than anything fundamental).
Edited by Equus on Saturday 31st August 13:41
Nerdherder said:
Very good information on load distribution indeed.
I wonder if models for fibreglass (and carbon fiber and marine plywood) are available as standard in 3d modeling tools (autocad and such) to calculate loads, that would be great, also to compare varying materials and placement relative to each other.
P.s. allow me please to dream off a bit on a wooden chassis that I've been wanting to build for quite some time now:
Had this lurking in my hard drive for a while... London Racing Car Show at Olympia, January '67...I wonder if models for fibreglass (and carbon fiber and marine plywood) are available as standard in 3d modeling tools (autocad and such) to calculate loads, that would be great, also to compare varying materials and placement relative to each other.
P.s. allow me please to dream off a bit on a wooden chassis that I've been wanting to build for quite some time now:
P5BNij said:
Nerdherder said:
Very good information on load distribution indeed.
I wonder if models for fibreglass (and carbon fiber and marine plywood) are available as standard in 3d modeling tools (autocad and such) to calculate loads, that would be great, also to compare varying materials and placement relative to each other.
P.s. allow me please to dream off a bit on a wooden chassis that I've been wanting to build for quite some time now:
Had this lurking in my hard drive for a while... London Racing Car Show at Olympia, January '67...I wonder if models for fibreglass (and carbon fiber and marine plywood) are available as standard in 3d modeling tools (autocad and such) to calculate loads, that would be great, also to compare varying materials and placement relative to each other.
P.s. allow me please to dream off a bit on a wooden chassis that I've been wanting to build for quite some time now:
Gemaeden said:
Is the huge panel gap, between the bonnet and A panel, cunning Costin aerodynamics or just rubbish moulding, and how many mph do the spring clips knock off of the top speed?
Frank Costin despaired of fabricators not doing what he wanted. His design for Maserati and the panel beaters using his design as a starting point for their bashing was a particular low point IIRC. I read the book but don't seem to have it anymore. Must have lent it to someone. 
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